Old to New £50 notes abroad

[Ifnotnow8]

A friend is travelling back to the Far East on holiday. She is thinking of writing to her bank (HSBC) to arrange for withdrawal of (£9800.00) in the new £50 notes. A proportion of £9800.00 will be her holiday spending money & the reminder will be for exchange of the old £50 notes to the new £50 notes with her family members as the old notes will cease as legal tender in September 2022. The old £50 notes will be deposited in her bank account (HSCB) on her return to UK.

Is this permissible? Can anyone suggest an alternative way of exchanging old to new £50 notes abroad?
Thanks

[BobbyD]

Permissible and wise may be two different things. IIRCC you need to declare £10,000+ if you are carrying it out of the country, carrying £9,800 out of the country looks incredibly like you are carrying an amount just below the declaration limit, which in some countries is enough in itself to be deemed suspicious. It's also possible the destination country might have similar requirements for currency import, and take similarly against people who appear to be deliberately avoiding making a declaration. Personally I'd avoid carrying large sums of cash through customs, and put the notes in a bank account.

[swill453]

Can anyone suggest an alternative way of exchanging old to new £50 notes abroad?

What's the ultimate plan for the use of the old £50 notes? If it's to spend in the UK, there's no hurry as the Bank of England will always exchange them, even after September '22.

Scott.

[Lootman]

Permissible and wise may be two different things. IIRCC you need to declare £10,000+ if you are carrying it out of the country, carrying £9,800 out of the country looks incredibly like you are carrying an amount just below the declaration limit, which in some countries is enough in itself to be deemed suspicious. It's also possible the destination country might have similar requirements for currency import, and take similarly against people who appear to be deliberately avoiding making a declaration. Personally I'd avoid carrying large sums of cash through customs, and put the notes in a bank account.

I have never known of a case of any country checking the bags of someone leaving, other than the usual security check of your carry-on baggage. So the risk in leaving the UK is trivial, even if the amount were over £10,000, which this isn't. In theory there is a customs check upon leaving but in practice it never happens.

Entering another country is, as you say, another matter. I have no idea about Hong Kong but some other nations are fairly picky about people bringing in large amounts of cash in high denomination notes.

Apparently dogs can be trained to sniff out large amounts of banknotes, presumably from the smell of the chemicals in them. They get employed at airports. Personally I would never carry more than about a grand in banknotes anywhere.

[mc2fool]

Can anyone suggest an alternative way of exchanging old to new £50 notes abroad?

What's the ultimate plan for the use of the old £50 notes? If it's to spend in the UK, there's no hurry as the Bank of England will always exchange them, even after September '22.

Yeah, but it's a faff if you do it in person, and a faff and risk of lost-in-transit if you do it by post.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/exchanging-old-banknotes

[BobbyD]

[
I have never known of a case of any country checking the bags of someone leaving, other than the usual security check of your carry-on baggage.

For those flying like the op's friend they don't need to do a check apart from the one they do on everybody flying out of the country because they are already checking the luggage of everybody flying out of the country!

Border Force quite like seizing large sums of money, and charging people with money laundering. I don't really see the point in giving them the opportunity, unless there is some reason more conventional means of storage and transportationn are unsuitable, in which case Border force might be on the right track. If anything I'd be tempted to take slightly over £10k and declare it...

[BobbyD]

Can anyone suggest an alternative way of exchanging old to new £50 notes abroad?

What's the ultimate plan for the use of the old £50 notes? If it's to spend in the UK, there's no hurry as the Bank of England will always exchange them, even after September '22.

Yeah, but it's a faff if you do it in person, and a faff and risk of lost-in-transit if you do it by post.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/exchanging-old-banknotes

If ease of use is the aim may I suggest a bank account?

[Lootman]

I have never known of a case of any country checking the bags of someone leaving, other than the usual security check of your carry-on baggage.

For those flying like the op's friend they don't need to do a check apart from the one they do on everybody flying out of the country because they are already checking the luggage of everybody flying out of the country!

Border Force quite like seizing large sums of money, and charging people with money laundering. I don't really see the point in giving them the opportunity, unless there is some reason more conventional means of storage and transportation are unsuitable, in which case Border force might be on the right track. If anything I'd be tempted to take slightly over £10k and declare it...

The only check I know of that is performed on outgoing luggage that travels in the hold of an aircraft is some kind of scan for explosives. Since every single piece of baggage going out of a UK airport would have to be scanned then such a scan can only be rudimentary, and I can't imagine it would pick up pieces of paper. If you can refer to such a case actually happening in the UK do let us know.

On ferries there will be even fewer checks.

Border Force do enjoy finding large amounts of cash but that is invariably on incoming passengers. In my experience countries do not really care what you take out of a country but only what you bring into it.

That said, I already said I would not recommend doing what the OP proposes, but more for the risk at the destination.

[didds]

If ease of use is the aim may I suggest a bank account?

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Presumably the holder could just exchange the notes to HKD - but then would be hit by commission/adjusted rates for "no commission".

So I can see one solution is a straight old for new swap with a UK based friend who is visiting HK - but like others if only for security of the cash Id be very wary personally of carrying around 10K's worth of cash in whatever denomination etc .



didds

[BobbyD]

The only check I know of that is performed on outgoing luggage that travels in the hold of an aircraft is some kind of scan for explosives

There's an x-ray which will detect bundles of paper, and the metallic strips in bank notes, bags maybe hand searched based on the x-ray or some other sampling method, they do electronic sniff tests on the contents of sealed bags which may or may not be capable of detecting currency but there are sniff tests which can and they have currency dogs which can smell the ink on the banknote. Channel tunnel has similar measures, haven't taken an international ferry in decades. In the States it isn't just external flights, there is a high level of unhappiness about TSA seizing cash they deeem to have been inadequately aqccounted for from passengers on internal flights, including those on their way to Vegas...

Your one example:

money launderer caught by Border Force officers trying to smuggle £1.5 million in suitcases on a flight to Dubai has been stripped of his illicit cash.

Mohamed Imran Khan Sathar Khan, 36, who claimed to be living in Ilford, checked in four suitcases rammed with £10 and £20 notes as he arrived to catch a flight from Stansted airport in August last year.

He was stopped and later prosecuted after border guards became suspicious about his cases, which each weighed 20kg, and found the money inside.

Khan has already been jailed for three years and nine months by a judge at Chelmsford crown court after admitting two charges of money laundering. He was also convicted at trial for possessing criminal property and attempting to remove it.

- https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/m ... 24801.html

If you want more just google your favourite airport + cash seized.

Another good reason not to go this route is the risk of simple theft. Anyway between us we cover departure risk, arrival risk and transit risk... All in all it seems like a bad system.

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Yes, but why? It's a really insecure method of long term storage, and the money would be much safer and just as accessible in a
bank where rats and thieves can't get at it and you don't need to transport thousands of pounds by international courier.

[didds]

[

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Yes, but why? It's a really insecure method of long term storage, and the money would be much safer and just as accessible in a
bank where rats and thieves can't get at it and you don't need to transport thousands of pounds by international courier.

yes. thats sortof my point.

It wasnt clear whether "in a bank" meant "paay the 9K or wgatever of £50 notes into an account".

Or cash them in to HKD and pay that into a bank account.

Cos the former only works if a sterling account is available in Honkers.

As a general rule i totally agree - holding many thousands of a currency one is unlikely to use for some while is dead money [basic caveats on local currency losing value against hard currency CF Peru in 1987 against USD]

Others MMV of course.

didds

[BobbyD]

[

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Yes, but why? It's a really insecure method of long term storage, and the money would be much safer and just as accessible in a
bank where rats and thieves can't get at it and you don't need to transport thousands of pounds by international courier.

yes. thats sortof my point.

It wasnt clear whether "in a bank" meant "paay the 9K or wgatever of £50 notes into an account".

Or cash them in to HKD and pay that into a bank account.

Cos the former only works if a sterling account is available in Honkers.

As a general rule i totally agree - holding many thousands of a currency one is unlikely to use for some while is dead money [basic caveats on local currency losing value against hard currency CF Peru in 1987 against USD]

Others MMV of course.

didds

To me the obvious move would be to deposit it in the UK. I'm sure HSBC would take GBP deposits in HK if one had the right level of account, or if it really has to be bought back to the UK atleast they are halving the amount of transportation, and they can slim the amount by using some of it as their holiday spending money and depositing an equivalent in the UK. BTW who takes £50 on holiday as spending money? Travellers cheques, local currency or a bank card seem like better options...

[mc2fool]

[

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Yes, but why? It's a really insecure method of long term storage, and the money would be much safer and just as accessible in a
bank where rats and thieves can't get at it and you don't need to transport thousands of pounds by international courier.

yes. thats sortof my point.

It wasnt clear whether "in a bank" meant "paay the 9K or wgatever of £50 notes into an account".

Or cash them in to HKD and pay that into a bank account.

Cos the former only works if a sterling account is available in Honkers.

As a general rule i totally agree - holding many thousands of a currency one is unlikely to use for some while is dead money [basic caveats on local currency losing value against hard currency CF Peru in 1987 against USD]

Others MMV of course.

didds

I think the OP is perfectly clear. Their friend's family members in HK have a stash of "old" £50 notes (under the mattress, so to speak), and want to swap them for "new" £50 notes without going through any normal institutions.

The only thing that isn't specified is their reason for doing so, and the only interaction at all with any bank anywhere is to be in the UK when the friend withdraws the money from their UK bank, in new £50 notes, and later deposits (most of it) back in old £50 notes. Motivations are left to the imagination of the reader.

[Dod101]

The OP did not mention Hong Kong, only the Far East and HSBC. That could refer to Hong Kong but also say Singapore or for that matter Malaysia.

Dod

[mc2fool]

The OP did not mention Hong Kong, only the Far East and HSBC. That could refer to Hong Kong but also say Singapore or for that matter Malaysia.

Dod

True! A case of Chinese whispers?

[BobbyD]

[

Isn't the issue here that the holder of the expiring £50 notes is in Hong Kong - are there sterling accounts available in Hong Kong based banks?

Yes, but why? It's a really insecure method of long term storage, and the money would be much safer and just as accessible in a
bank where rats and thieves can't get at it and you don't need to transport thousands of pounds by international courier.

yes. thats sortof my point.

It wasnt clear whether "in a bank" meant "paay the 9K or wgatever of £50 notes into an account".

Or cash them in to HKD and pay that into a bank account.

Cos the former only works if a sterling account is available in Honkers.

As a general rule i totally agree - holding many thousands of a currency one is unlikely to use for some while is dead money [basic caveats on local currency losing value against hard currency CF Peru in 1987 against USD]

Others MMV of course.

didds

I think the OP is perfectly clear. Their friend's family members in HK have a stash of "old" £50 notes (under the mattress, so to speak), and want to swap them for "new" £50 notes without going through any normal institutions.

The only thing that isn't specified is their reason for doing so, and the only interaction at all with any bank anywhere is to be in the UK when the friend withdraws the money from their UK bank, in new £50 notes, and later deposits (most of it) back in old £50 notes. Motivations are left to the imagination of the reader.

The op doesn't mention anything about avoiding the usual Institutions.

[mc2fool]

I think the OP is perfectly clear. Their friend's family members in HK have a stash of "old" £50 notes (under the mattress, so to speak), and want to swap them for "new" £50 notes without going through any normal institutions.

The only thing that isn't specified is their reason for doing so, and the only interaction at all with any bank anywhere is to be in the UK when the friend withdraws the money from their UK bank, in new £50 notes, and later deposits (most of it) back in old £50 notes. Motivations are left to the imagination of the reader.

The op doesn't mention anything about avoiding the usual Institutions.

And neither did I, I said "without going through", not "avoiding". They may want to but there may be reasons why they can't. Reasons, which, as I said, weren't specified.

[Lootman]

In the States it isn't just external flights, there is a high level of unhappiness about TSA seizing cash they deem to have been inadequately accounted for from passengers on internal flights, including those on their way to Vegas...

In America for that matter the mere possession of an unusually large amount of cash can deem you liable for detention and seizure. A failure to be able to credibly explain your intentions for such cash can lead to the presumption of an intent to buy illegal drugs, and therefore the risk of your funds being impounded.

In many cases that money ends up buying appliances and supplies for the local PD canteen, or so I have heard . .

I would imagine that the professionals who engage in laundering and the like use digital currency, hawala or even the old-fashioned but ever popular "diamonds up the bum" strategy

As to the other point, I maintain there is more risk of a customs intervention arriving at an airport rather than leaving one. But as various folks have pointed out, carrying a lot of cash involves various risks at every point of the journey.

[BobbyD]

I think the OP is perfectly clear. Their friend's family members in HK have a stash of "old" £50 notes (under the mattress, so to speak), and want to swap them for "new" £50 notes without going through any normal institutions.

The only thing that isn't specified is their reason for doing so, and the only interaction at all with any bank anywhere is to be in the UK when the friend withdraws the money from their UK bank, in new £50 notes, and later deposits (most of it) back in old £50 notes. Motivations are left to the imagination of the reader.

The op doesn't mention anything about avoiding the usual Institutions.

And neither did I, I said "without going through", not "avoiding". They may want to but there may be reasons why they can't. Reasons, which, as I said, weren't specified.

Ignoring the fact that 'without going through' and avoiding are synonyms in this context, they didn't say that either...

[mc2fool]

I think the OP is perfectly clear. Their friend's family members in HK have a stash of "old" £50 notes (under the mattress, so to speak), and want to swap them for "new" £50 notes without going through any normal institutions.

The only thing that isn't specified is their reason for doing so, and the only interaction at all with any bank anywhere is to be in the UK when the friend withdraws the money from their UK bank, in new £50 notes, and later deposits (most of it) back in old £50 notes. Motivations are left to the imagination of the reader.

The op doesn't mention anything about avoiding the usual Institutions.

And neither did I, I said "without going through", not "avoiding". They may want to but there may be reasons why they can't. Reasons, which, as I said, weren't specified.

Ignoring the fact that 'without going through' and avoiding are synonyms in this context, they didn't say that either...

No, not synonyms as avoiding implies specific effort. But they didn't have to say it, it's a clear inference from what they did say.

But I tell you what, if you disagree then rather than continuing a game of ping pong why don't we just wait for the OP to (hopefully) explicitly clarify....