The Lemon Fool

swill453 wrote:

wheypat wrote:Yes, I've also finally found a use for the delayed start on the dishwasher and washing machine.

Of course the fire brigade would advise you not to use these while asleep in the house.

Scott.

I hope you don't have a high-tech battery-powered gadget, like a laptop or mobile phone?

JohnB wrote:What will be big is tie-ups between electricity suppliers and electric-car charging apps.

I guess that'll be why they're reported as taking an interest. Though that's a lot more than just an app.

taylor20 wrote:https://octopus.energy/agile/ they are definitely innovators in this area, so a taste of things to come for smart meter owners.

They have a number of different tarrifs, so if there is one that would suit your lifestyle/situation then probably worth getting a smart meter. They have one for solar panel owners, for example.

Not sure where I saw it, but probably in an EV video on YouTube within the last month, someone showed their Octopus (IIRC) tariff which offered different electricity costs in half hour bands.

The 0300 to 0330 charge was 0.04p per KwH, others variable but higher. So the future is here now...

UncleEbenezer wrote:

swill453 wrote:

wheypat wrote:Yes, I've also finally found a use for the delayed start on the dishwasher and washing machine.

Of course the fire brigade would advise you not to use these while asleep in the house.

Scott.

I hope you don't have a high-tech battery-powered gadget, like a laptop or mobile phone?

Car, that's pretty big battery . . . . .

gryffron wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote:AIUI smart meters need a reliable mobile phone signal in order that they can send readings back to the energy supplier. Certainly smart meters only really make economic sense if in future they can receive orders, over the phone network, to shut down certain appliances or even total usage at times of high demand.

They make economic sense if they can charge you a variable peak/daytime/middle-of-night tariff. Remember, energy companies already pay this. It makes perfect sense they would pass such difference in charges on to customers. And this is the only way govt will be able to balance supply and demand from unreliable renewable sources. I know there is no such tariff yet, but there will be!

They do! Have alook at Octopus' "agile" energy plan, that charges you according to the wholesale price on half-hourly intervals (plus their markup, obviously).

What I found interesting is not just how much of the day is also cheap rate, and just when the peak demand is (4 to 7pm) but that with the rise of more and more renewable energy that cannot be turned on and off to meet demand, that prices are increasingly going negative during the night. Octopus said that 31 occasions last year the price went below 0p (up from 4 occasions previously) so you get paid to take energy in our new world of renewables.

Smart meters do not shut off supply, and will not shut off supply. It crazy conspiracy theory to suggest that. I can see all energy plans becoming more liek the Octopus one though, to encourage people to spread the demand over a longer time to allow renewable generation to work better, but its oging to be a while before that becomes mainstream.

wheypat wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

swill453 wrote:Of course the fire brigade would advise you not to use these while asleep in the house.

Scott.

I hope you don't have a high-tech battery-powered gadget, like a laptop or mobile phone?

Car, that's pretty big battery . . . . .

Yeah, but your alternatives (other than your bike or your season ticket) are altogether more explosive.

To be serious, laptops and mobile phones place a high premium on light weight. DAK to what extent that feeds into the explosion risk, and if car batteries avoid that risk by allowing themselves more weight-per-unit-capacity?

UncleEbenezer wrote:

wheypat wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:I hope you don't have a high-tech battery-powered gadget, like a laptop or mobile phone?

Car, that's pretty big battery . . . . .

Yeah, but your alternatives (other than your bike or your season ticket) are altogether more explosive.

To be serious, laptops and mobile phones place a high premium on light weight. DAK to what extent that feeds into the explosion risk, and if car batteries avoid that risk by allowing themselves more weight-per-unit-capacity?

the explosion risk is all about heat - charge up and things get hot, charge up too quickly, or keep going when the battery electronics has said stop, and it catches fire, which for lithium generally means lots of flames shooting and often a big boom too.

Its all down to the electronics really, the manufacturers want to charge things up as quickly as possible, and have various cooling features ot help it, but they also really don't want to kill their customers, so safety features even more heavily. Its when you buy the cheapest of cheap Chinese chargers and plug them in to the wrong things that you get problems (eg people plugging their cheap vape into a mobile phone charger)

First attempt by Scottish Power to fit a smart meter failed due to lack of a Vodaphone Mobile Phone Signal. Some months later the Vodaphone coverage was improved, and so they managed to fit it at a second attempt. The old meter was taken away - remember to note its reading, and remember to check that the installer also notes its reading, because the new smart meter starts at zero, and this could be construed as being an overflow from your previous reading. In spite of the promises that the billing would be appropriately updated, the first monthly bill was for a ludicrously large sum, which I managed to cancel before it disappeared out of my Bank account. Apparently the changeover had not been fully entered into their billing system, and their software wasn't intelligent enough to realise that there was a problem. The advantage? - no need to send in meter readings or be present when a statutory reading requires to be taken by the supply company. I later had a Gas smart meter installed (from a different supplier), with no problems. Do I ever look at the on-line readings? - No - I don't , and their displays are not plugged in - but are stored in some cupboard (I think).

gbjbaanb wrote:Smart meters do not shut off supply, and will not shut off supply. It crazy conspiracy theory to suggest that. I can see all energy plans becoming more liek the Octopus one though, to encourage people to spread the demand over a longer time to allow renewable generation to work better, but its oging to be a while before that becomes mainstream.

There's a bit of confusion about this, not all Smart Meters are created equal or used equally.

"Automated Demand Response" is a thing; and requires among other stuff a Smart Meter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Auto ... d_Response)
- it's place might not be the UK retail market but it is a practical measure for load balancing where it suits

- sd

taylor20 wrote:https://octopus.energy/agile/ they are definitely innovators in this area, so a taste of things to come for smart meter owners.

That's a genuinely interesting URL - thanks for posting. Wish I'd seen it before rather than after my just-completed switch: the standing charge would probably rule it out for me, but still worth investigating.

Of course, as more consumers (and devices) take advantages of tariffs like that, usage patterns will shift towards quiet periods, so the supply and demand will be better-matched. Which is a win for all - except perhaps people benefiting right now from free power!

I switched to Octopus and had their Smart meter installed about 9 months ago. it was very easy.

I am on 'Octopus Go' with electrcity at 5p a kwh for 4 hours at night. I dont have an EV but do have a Tesla battery and solar panels. So when solar is rubbish like it is this time of year, the battery fills up at 5p at night to power the home during the day. Timer delays on tumble drier, washing machine and dish washer power these at the 5p rate too.

It's working very nicely.

taylor20 wrote:https://octopus.energy/agile/ they are definitely innovators in this area, so a taste of things to come for smart meter owners.

They have a number of different tarrifs, so if there is one that would suit your lifestyle/situation then probably worth getting a smart meter. They have one for solar panel owners, for example.

Excuse me resurrecting this thread, but I wonder if anyone here has been on a smart-meter-based Economy-7-like (cheap overnight energy) tariff long enough to have data for all seasons about those dynamic prices? How do they vary not just from hour to hour, but from season to season, and with warm/cold/wet/dry/etc weather?

After years of refusing to have a smart meter fitted, I'm inheriting one anyway because the house I am moving to has one.

The vendor tells me the gas meter is "smart" but the electricity has gone "dumb" - even though it's been fitted in the past year.

DOH!! I was doing so well avoiding this unecessary rubbish.

Arb.

Recently, Eon informed me that I had "agreed to have a Smart Meter fitted" . . . .< paraphrase : to stay on this new tariff that you have recently switch to >.

I don't recall this being brought to my attention prior-to and during the switch . . . despite careful attention to the details.
However, due to a change in my meter-reading situation, it was now more appropriate to now have a Smart meter fitted.

I called Eon to try to check that :-
- they would not stitch-me-up with a SMETS1 type.
- that the new meter would be compatible with any new solar PV array ( in future ).

As arranged, the meter fitter arrived at my door and announced that the SMETS2 network was "down" and could not be fitted at that time.
I was offered a SMETS1 type as a workaround.
Me : . . . . "No, thanks"
MeterMan :. . . "Good decision, you won't have to have it swapped again when you change suppliers."

While I was pondering again the benefits of Smart Meters I did wonder whether they could be used to ration power ?
This might sound outrageous, but in view of seriousness of Climate Change and the unwillingness of the general population to make any significant sacrifices, perhaps rationing is the only equitable way to share these precious resources ? . . . and to help/force people to reduce their dependence ?

There has been strong reluctance in the past to allowing suppliers to cut people off, which is what rationing would lead to. You would have great difficulty in recording the occupancy of the house which would be the basis of rationing. Of course with a strong authoritarian wind blowing in Britain, and the surveillance technologies becoming available, it is possible.

Politicians have tried "nudge theory" to change behaviour, perhaps "poke theory" and "whip theory" are coming if a Climate Emergency is declared. But I suspect the issue will be fudged as politically unacceptable,

malakoffee wrote:While I was pondering again the benefits of Smart Meters I did wonder whether they could be used to ration power ?
This might sound outrageous, but in view of seriousness of Climate Change and the unwillingness of the general population to make any significant sacrifices, perhaps rationing is the only equitable way to share these precious resources ? . . . and to help/force people to reduce their dependence ?

Variable pricing is a much simpler and less draconian option than rationing.

Gryff

So called Smart Meters? avoid they are waste of time and no one needs one, Governments bung companies for selling them.

Most things labelled Smart are usually anything but.

re Rationing of power.

I remember this being done after WWII. It was in chunks of 8 hours every 8th day. Every household had a chart showing which days were your turn to be cut off. Bearing in mind that my earliest proven memories date from around late Spring 1948, then this suggests that it had probably been happening for quite a few years. Unfortunately, I don't know when it ceased.

So, it's nothing new, other than the need to stock up on candles!

Incidently, occupancy or otherwise was irrelevant. If it was your day, then that was it, off it went willy nilly. I suppose the only advantage of using smart meters these days would be to avoid wholesale disconnection of an area as was practised back then, as individusl properties could be targetted.

ten0rman

bobsmydog wrote:I switched to Octopus and had their Smart meter installed about 9 months ago. it was very easy.

I am on 'Octopus Go' with electrcity at 5p a kwh for 4 hours at night. I dont have an EV but do have a Tesla battery and solar panels. So when solar is rubbish like it is this time of year, the battery fills up at 5p at night to power the home during the day. Timer delays on tumble drier, washing machine and dish washer power these at the 5p rate too.

It's working very nicely.

I have solar panels installed already but am wary of getting a smart meter as
a) My solar installer advised me not to to avoid problems
and
b) There has been a lot in the press about them being installed or configured incorrectly and unfortunate solar panel owners getting huge bills as a result of being CHARGED for the electricity they are exporting.

Now I realise that smart meters are the future and that I will HAVE to get one eventually and I have read that as long as you get a SMETS2 meter and it is properly configured it can work just fine. My concern is with getting some installation guy who ISNT familiar with solar panels and doesnt do the job right and I end up with the problems being reported elsewhere by others. Perhaps if I switched to Octopus Energy and get them to do the installation they will get it right, clearly you havent had any problems ?.

Anyone else out there who has had smart meters installed recently and already has solar panels ?. If so Id like to hear how you got on.

ATB

Pref

I have solar panels and had smart meters installed last week. Everything is working as before as far as I can tell but with no tangible benefit to me. Reading main meters now requires me to press buttons rather than reading direct and some people may require a ladder.

The whole experience was stressful and not without risk. Had I known I would not have had it done and would not recommend that others do so.