The Lemon Fool

bungeejumper wrote:

Watis wrote:

Gerry557 wrote:I'd also look for a five year warranty. Heater elements tend to go just after two years.

I'm on my third dishwasher in about 30 years and have never had an element fail.

The expensive issue, with Bosch/Neffs at least, is that the heater element is an integral part of the pump. So you're in for £200-odd, plus fitting, when your heater element goes, and you find that it's only marginally more expensive to replace the whole machine, so that's what you do.

That's what happened to me, and I was a bit cross at the time. Until I realised that my six year old d/w had cost me only a pound a week to own during its life, and maybe that wasn't so bad after all?

BJ

Been there, done that

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Finally, I don't put decent quality crystal glassware in it (just cheapo low quality glasses) as the cheap glasses seem to get etched after a dozen or two cycles, and I worry about the same happening to the nice stuff. Is this a valid fear?

My glasses always go in the dishwasher.The cheapos show quite a lot of staining (whatever you call it). The better-quality ones are good as new.

It would be intriguing to know whether the glass clouding is primarily the result of limescale (calcium and magnesium ion deposition) from hard water or something else such as corrosion of the glass surface. It seems intuitively likely that once some degree of corrosion has set in (i.e. the glass surface gets rougher), it will be more susceptible to limescale deposition. Perhaps - as UE noted - good quality glasses don't cloud so readily because limescale will not adhere so easily to their smoother and harder surfaces.

stewamax wrote:It would be intriguing to know whether the glass clouding is primarily the result of limescale (calcium and magnesium ion deposition) from hard water or something else such as corrosion of the glass surface. It seems intuitively likely that once some degree of corrosion has set in (i.e. the glass surface gets rougher), it will be more susceptible to limescale deposition. Perhaps - as UE noted - good quality glasses don't cloud so readily because limescale will not adhere so easily to their smoother and harder surfaces.

Never had the least problem with glassware clouding whether cheap or expensive so I’d attribute it to hard water or the effects of using artificially softened water (high sodium content?) rather than abrasion. Living in Fife our water is very soft and we don’t need salt in the washer. However there’s always been a caveat about putting lead crystal in (temperature I think, can’t remember) and the rate that most dishwasher detergents abrade the patterns puts us off ever putting the good china in either. I’ve lost count of the number of decent china mugs we’ve scrapped because my wife hated the almost-washed-away pattern.

bungeejumper wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Finally, I don't put decent quality crystal glassware in it (just cheapo low quality glasses) as the cheap glasses seem to get etched after a dozen or two cycles, and I worry about the same happening to the nice stuff. Is this a valid fear?

Depends on your water, I think. We have super-hard water, and all the salt and rinse aid and top-quality dw tablets in the world don't stop our crystal from going cloudy. (Well, it would do that if we were fool enough to risk it again - once was enough. ) Whereas our daughter in the Midlands can just put any glass, crystal or otherwise, in the machine and no problems. I console myself with the thought that hard water is better for your arteries.

BJ

Do not put lead crystal in the dishwasher. Back in the 1960 era I worked in a lab where one lady was studying the effects of dishwasher detergents on various types of glassware. Lead crystal is particularly vulnerable.

TJH

I don't use many glasses anyway but would never put crystal glasses in the dishwater. Mine certainly go discoloured and there is a risk of chipping, neither of which is good for crystal. Might try pots and pans in the dishwasher but they take up a lot of room, and generally I only run my dishwasher every two or three days.

Dod

I'm with you Dod, great machine! - my AEG dishwasher was bought 22 years ago when I returned to the UK from Canada and has given me excellent service ever since. I tend to bulk cook and thus don't cook every day so it only gets run about twice a week.

I bought 4 x 6 cheapo glasses in various sizes at Walmart in Calgary in 1997 and apart from one which got broken in transit they are all still in use - all still crystal clear! I don't use salt or rinse aid, the water here in the southwest being very soft I find neither is necessary. The 50° cycle is used most often, which takes about an hour, and the Lidl all in one tablets do a great job! Fingers crossed long may it continue to do so!

Tricia

stewamax wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Finally, I don't put decent quality crystal glassware in it (just cheapo low quality glasses) as the cheap glasses seem to get etched after a dozen or two cycles, and I worry about the same happening to the nice stuff. Is this a valid fear?

My glasses always go in the dishwasher.The cheapos show quite a lot of staining (whatever you call it). The better-quality ones are good as new.

It would be intriguing to know whether the glass clouding is primarily the result of limescale (calcium and magnesium ion deposition) from hard water or something else such as corrosion of the glass surface.

Nothing to do with limescale.

We have entirely soft water here. My 1998 kettle is used several times a day and shows not the faintest sign of limescale. Whereas the cheapo glasses from Argos (bought as a big set when I moved from a furnished to an unfurnished flat in 2005 and needed to equip it all at once) show a lot of clouding.

Though come to think of it, I didn't have a dishwasher until after the 2013 house move, and (from memory) they were already then showing signs of clouding. Unlike the small number of higher-quality glasses from my parents, which had also seen use in hard water areas in the 1980s (and I believe earlier with them). Glass is a very strange substance!

6Tricia wrote: I don't use salt or rinse aid, the water here in the southwest being very soft I find neither is necessary.
Tricia

That's another consideration with a new dishwasher. Are there dishwashers where one can disable or override the annoying warnings when you don't have salt or rinse aid in?

6Tricia wrote:The 50° cycle is used most often, which takes about an hour

New machines take an awful lot longer than that on a cycle due to the energy efficiency requirements. The standard 40c cycle on mine takes about 2 hours 40 minutes to complete.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

6Tricia wrote: I don't use salt or rinse aid, the water here in the southwest being very soft I find neither is necessary.
Tricia

That's another consideration with a new dishwasher. Are there dishwashers where one can disable or override the annoying warnings when you don't have salt or rinse aid in?

With the Bosch dishwasher I have you can turn off both the salt and rinse aid indicators. However you can also set the water hardness so it doses the correct amount and similarly for rinse aid you can set how much it uses.