The Lemon Fool

csearle wrote:Skipped a few posts so hopefully not duplicating but I use contactless almost all the time for almost everything; have never had a single payment booked twice (especially as my Monzo account makes a "ka-ching" noise from my phone as it releases funds); and have never bothered with a receipt.

I think that if I ever did have a dual payment I'd go back to the seller showing my phone with its transactions and ask for a repayment. Can't see this ever happening though.

But in answer to the DAK question: simply use Monzo. You know whether it has taken money instantly because the phone makes the "ka-ching" noise whilst it is still pressing up against the contactless reader.

Chris
PS My phone usually informs me of payment before the seller even knows.

Most posts in this thread seem to be missing the point, as id the thread title. Title should be (something like) "How to confirm if a contactless payment has NOT worked".

As you say, the phone notifies near-instantly when the transaction completed. The problem in the OP is slightly different though, being how to satisfy oneself that a failed transaction really did in fact, fail when the notification did not arrive, and the spotty spod on the till is demanding one tries (and perhaps pays) a second time.

With my credit cards (Barclaycard and Santander) their apps show contactless payments as pending transactions the instant they go through, so it would take seconds to fire it up and show to the vendor.

Scott.

Mike4 wrote:

csearle wrote:Skipped a few posts so hopefully not duplicating but I use contactless almost all the time for almost everything; have never had a single payment booked twice (especially as my Monzo account makes a "ka-ching" noise from my phone as it releases funds); and have never bothered with a receipt.

I think that if I ever did have a dual payment I'd go back to the seller showing my phone with its transactions and ask for a repayment. Can't see this ever happening though.

But in answer to the DAK question: simply use Monzo. You know whether it has taken money instantly because the phone makes the "ka-ching" noise whilst it is still pressing up against the contactless reader.

Chris
PS My phone usually informs me of payment before the seller even knows.

Most posts in this thread seem to be missing the point, as id the thread title. Title should be (something like) "How to confirm if a contactless payment has NOT worked".

As you say, the phone notifies near-instantly when the transaction completed. The problem in the OP is slightly different though, being how to satisfy oneself that a failed transaction really did in fact, fail when the notification did not arrive, and the spotty spod on the till is demanding one tries (and perhaps pays) a second time.

If you have an app on your phone it appears it gives instant confirmation but if not I gave a solution some posts earlier. You can get a chit from the merchant to say that the payment was voided. I do not have the ap on my phone and from an article in the Sunday Times yesterday about a guy who had his phone stolen, I doubt that I ever will.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

csearle wrote:Skipped a few posts so hopefully not duplicating but I use contactless almost all the time for almost everything; have never had a single payment booked twice (especially as my Monzo account makes a "ka-ching" noise from my phone as it releases funds); and have never bothered with a receipt.

I think that if I ever did have a dual payment I'd go back to the seller showing my phone with its transactions and ask for a repayment. Can't see this ever happening though.

But in answer to the DAK question: simply use Monzo. You know whether it has taken money instantly because the phone makes the "ka-ching" noise whilst it is still pressing up against the contactless reader.

Chris
PS My phone usually informs me of payment before the seller even knows.

Most posts in this thread seem to be missing the point, as id the thread title. Title should be (something like) "How to confirm if a contactless payment has NOT worked".

As you say, the phone notifies near-instantly when the transaction completed. The problem in the OP is slightly different though, being how to satisfy oneself that a failed transaction really did in fact, fail when the notification did not arrive, and the spotty spod on the till is demanding one tries (and perhaps pays) a second time.

If you have an app on your phone it appears it gives instant confirmation but if not I gave a solution some posts earlier. You can get a chit from the merchant to say that the payment was voided. I do not have the ap on my phone and from an article in the Sunday Times yesterday about a guy who had his phone stolen, I doubt that I ever will.

Dod

Your solution is not always valid.

As card merchant retailer myself I have a card terminal, and yes if a transaction fails it prints a chit to say so (or it implies it which raises a different problem!) but as a backup I have a PayPal card reader which prints nothing, ever. Use of these is becoming widespread.

How does the customer satisfy themselves the transaction failed when there is no chit, and the retailer is asking them to "tap again"?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/h ... ard-reader

Dod101 wrote:Off topic but the word 'chit' is widely used in the Far East and I think it was originally Indian. 'Shroff' is another similar sort of word which was used for a cashier in the Far East. I lived and worked in Hong Kong for a long time and use chit or chitty without thinking.

"a short letter, note," 1776, short for chitty (1690s), from Mahrati (Hindi) chitthi "letter, note, memorandum," from Sanskrit chitra-s "distinctively marked" (see cheetah).https://www.etymonline.com/word/chit

Maroochydore wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Off topic but the word 'chit' is widely used in the Far East and I think it was originally Indian. 'Shroff' is another similar sort of word which was used for a cashier in the Far East. I lived and worked in Hong Kong for a long time and use chit or chitty without thinking.

"a short letter, note," 1776, short for chitty (1690s), from Mahrati (Hindi) chitthi "letter, note, memorandum," from Sanskrit chitra-s "distinctively marked" (see cheetah).https://www.etymonline.com/word/chit

Since looked it up myself, thanks. There are many Indian words used in UK English as well of course. In the Far East at least they were most likely introduced via the East India Company and even in my time there there were a lot of expats who arrived in Hong Kong from India and even they brought a lot of Indian words and phrases with them.

Happy Days!

Dod

To be honest "chitty" is the form that I am most familiar with and it was certainly in widespread use in the RAF, occasionally abbreviated to "chit". I wonder if it still is today when there is so much more automation in the world.

88V8 wrote:I believe that if one asks, one can get a card that is not contactless. Haven't tried, although I feel inclined to do so.

V8

Its very much a card issuer by card issuer thing.

I asked for this several years ago and some cards had this available, and others didn't - the only option was to have it, or close the card account and look elsewhere for one without contactless.

I seem to recall something about being able to do something to the chip (drill a hole in it?) butt cant say whether that is genuine or good advice!

Generally speaking most forms of payment have potential problems..

* contactless - lose the card = possible use and abuse by others
* cash - lose the cash = possible use and abuse by others
* chip and pin cards - lose the card = possible use and abuse by others via a "not present" transaction ie the abuser has the 3 numbers on the back of the card (notwithstanding how they receive the goods/service but Id imagine that's not insurmountable to somebody so inclined)
* phone - battery goes flat ... can't use it


cheque seems maybe the safest way? But then Ive read here that cheques dont get checked (inadvertent pun) below £X (1000?) value anyway.
If you can find anyone to take them these days (havent tried for years!)


didds

didds wrote:

88V8 wrote:I believe that if one asks, one can get a card that is not contactless. Haven't tried, although I feel inclined to do so.

V8

Its very much a card issuer by card issuer thing.

I asked for this several years ago and some cards had this available, and others didn't - the only option was to have it, or close the card account and look elsewhere for one without contactless.

I seem to recall something about being able to do something to the chip (drill a hole in it?) butt cant say whether that is genuine or good advice!

It's always a good idea to read the posts already posted in a thread. viewtopic.php?p=509853#p509853

(Do NOT drill a hole in the chip!!! That'll bugger your card totally. Some methods advocate drilling holes in places in the card where you think the antenna is, but that seems kinda hit and miss. The method described in the post linked to above has reliably worked for me on several cards....)

No need to cut bits off or use a drill
If you don't want to use contactless it's easy
keep you card away from the reader - simples

pje16 wrote:No need to cut bits off or use a drill
If you don't want to use contactless it's easy
keep you card away from the reader - simples

Requires keeping your contactless card and Freedom Pass/60+/Oyster in different wallets or pockets, or extracting the latter from your wallet to tap in. P.I.T.A.

And then there's https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1521446/scam-warning-contactless-card-fraud-uk

Of course, both problems are solved if your card provider will give you a non-contactless one if you want...

mc2fool wrote:Requires keeping your contactless card and Freedom Pass/60+/Oyster in different wallets or pockets, or extracting the latter from your wallet to tap in. P.I.T.A.

I have a wallet where it is easy to slip out the required card
I use one daily for travel and another to gain access my office
not that much of a PITA

pje16 wrote:

mc2fool wrote:Requires keeping your contactless card and Freedom Pass/60+/Oyster in different wallets or pockets, or extracting the latter from your wallet to tap in. P.I.T.A.

I have a wallet where it is easy to slip out the required card
I use one daily for travel and another to gain access my office
not that much of a PITA

Not "that much" is subjective, but it's still more than just slapping your whole wallet against the reader without having to take out any card at all. Indeed, I often see women just presenting their bag to the reader, without needing to even take out their wallet (/purse).

I nobbled my only contactless card precisely for such tapping-in convenience without suffering from "card clash". But each to their own I guess...

I would like the glint of my eye to suffice for payment.

Just love all this kind of thing.

Chris

csearle wrote:I would like the glint of my eye to suffice for payment.

Just love all this kind of thing.

Chris

Don't ever go out in the sunshine then

csearle wrote:I would like the glint of my eye to suffice for payment.

Just love all this kind of thing.

Chris

If I were you I'd go for a property of the eye which requires it still to be embedded in your head and connected to blood vessels. Make the thieves work for their £100!

didds wrote:Generally speaking most forms of payment have potential problems..

* contactless - lose the card = possible use and abuse by others

Easily solved in most semi-modern banking apps where you can block and unblock the card as you wish, but then in most cases you'd might as well leave the card at home and use the phone in its place.

BobbyD wrote:

didds wrote:Generally speaking most forms of payment have potential problems..

* contactless - lose the card = possible use and abuse by others

Easily solved in most semi-modern banking apps where you can block and unblock the card as you wish, but then in most cases you'd might as well leave the card at home and use the phone in its place.

... and meanwhile if doing that never have a phone battery that goes flat ...

mc2fool wrote:

pje16 wrote:

mc2fool wrote:Requires keeping your contactless card and Freedom Pass/60+/Oyster in different wallets or pockets, or extracting the latter from your wallet to tap in. P.I.T.A.

I have a wallet where it is easy to slip out the required card
I use one daily for travel and another to gain access my office
not that much of a PITA

Not "that much" is subjective, but it's still more than just slapping your whole wallet against the reader without having to take out any card at all. Indeed, I often see women just presenting their bag to the reader, without needing to even take out their wallet (/purse).

I nobbled my only contactless card precisely for such tapping-in convenience without suffering from "card clash". But each to their own I guess...

I have six contactless cards in my wallet. Slapping my wallet against the reader would make it almost random which card would be charged. Or worse, all of them?

I like to choose which card to use for any given transaction and so it makes sense to remove only that card from my wallet and "slap" that one. Takes me perhaps 2 seconds.