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reporting a crime that may not be one

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didds
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reporting a crime that may not be one

#131493

Postby didds » April 11th, 2018, 4:42 pm

(related to previous DAK)

AIUI its a crime to falsely report a crime.

But if an item has been lost (still out for delivery for weeks) by Royal mail, couldn't one report the possibility of a theft? There's no way to tell if the missing package has been stolen. But equally there's no way to tell if it hasn't. Schroedinger;s parcel so to speak.

didds

pochisoldi
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Re: reporting a crime that may not be one

#131515

Postby pochisoldi » April 11th, 2018, 6:33 pm

didds wrote:(related to previous DAK)

AIUI its a crime to falsely report a crime.

But if an item has been lost (still out for delivery for weeks) by Royal mail, couldn't one report the possibility of a theft? There's no way to tell if the missing package has been stolen. But equally there's no way to tell if it hasn't. Schroedinger;s parcel so to speak.

didds


Wasting police time: Criminal Law Act 1967 S5(2)

"Where a person causes any wasteful employment of the police by knowingly making to any person a false report tending to show that an offence has been committed, or to give rise to apprehension for the safety of any persons or property, or tending to show that he has information material to any police inquiry, he shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for not more than six months or to a fine of not more than level 4 on the standard scale or to both."

If someone makes a report in the genuinely held belief that a crime has actually taken place, then that person cannot be "knowingly" making a false report.

Going back to your original question: the crime was against Royal Mail so they should be reporting it, obtaining the crime reference and providing it to their insurers. (As far as you are concerned, it's Royal Mail paying you compensation, where they get their money from is RM's business not yours.)

PochiSoldi

didds
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Re: reporting a crime that may not be one

#131606

Postby didds » April 12th, 2018, 8:39 am

Tx PochiSoldier... I totally get that it shoud be RM that reporting the "crime". Equally I can see that they may avoid doing so as it just flags up that their systems are broken and so open to abuse. Keeping schtumm is possibly their best stratgy. Not helped by their own insurance procedures requiring a police reference number - so the poster has to report it.

For some context in a real life case that I am basing these on the items that have disappeared were passports, residence card, degree certificate etc... for a citizenship application for a EU citizen living in the UK - no copies allowed in application etc... so potential for huge identity theft. Its not just a book off amazon sort of thing...


Back to the generalised query... its a crime to knowlingly falsely report a crime. So what if you don;t know if its a crime or not? That wopuldn;t falsely be reporting a crime, just explaining it may be or it may not, but would require investigation to find out. If I left a unlocked mobile phone on a bus, and in the contacts was a number "home" with - of course - my home number on it, but nobody ever ever called it, it would be a fair assumption that it had been found and in effect stolen. As there wold be nothing stopping anyone from finding "home" and calling that number. But one coulnd;t "know" for certain that is HAD been stolen. etc etc



didds

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Re: reporting a crime that may not be one

#131864

Postby chas49 » April 13th, 2018, 9:21 am

I think the correct interpretation of the words

knowingly making to any person a false report tending to show that an offence has been committed


is: making a report which s/he knows to be false, and that report suggests a crime has been committed.

If you go to the police and say "X has happened, can I report it as a crime" and X did happen, it doesn't matter whether it's a crime or not, you can't have falsely reported. Conversely, if X didn't happen, you might be falsely reporting if the alleged facts would be a crime (had they been true).

So, if you report a missing item of mail (and it is really missing), you can't be falsely reporting, even if there's no direct evidence of a crime (unless an investigation is carried out).

The police are not required to investigate everything reported to them. And issuing a reference number does not mean a crime has been committed, just something which could be a crime has been reported to them.


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