My eviction, ongoing saga

[AleisterCrowley]

Following on from this thread;
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11963#p142526
(Summary- landlord is selling my rented flat)
I had a call from agent yesterday - apparently one of the recent viewers has decided to buy (more fool them IMO)
I've been told they are doing a survey on Monday, which is frankly no more inconvenient than any other day
I then get formal notice - assume later next week.
So, crunch time. Given the time constraints I'm looking at renting in Reading area. Been checking on RightMove and have noticed there seem to be a lot of tenant charges listed as below, my bold where I think they apply;



*****
Set up fee (tenant's share) £599 (inc VAT) for up to two tenants
Referencing up to two tenants (identity, immigration and visa confirmation, financial credit checks, obtaining references from current or previous employers / landlords and any other relevant information to assess affordability) as well as contract negotiation (amending and agreeing terms) and arranging the tenancy and agreement.

Additional tenant Fee £180 (inc VAT) per tenant
Processing the application, associated paperwork and referencing

Guarantor Fee £120 (inc VAT) per guarantor (if required)
Covering credit referencing and preparing a Deed of Guarantee as part of the Tenancy Agreement

Permitted Occupier Fee £60 (inc VAT) per permitted occupier
Explaining to any permitted occupier their rights and responsibilities towards the named tenant(s) and landlord as well as the provision of documentary guidance and assistance during the tenancy

Accompanied Check-in Fee £204 (inc VAT)
Preparing an Inventory and Schedule of Condition of the property, explaining how appliances function and taking meter readings for utilities and services



*****
So, does that mean I'm going to get charged £599 'Set up fee' and possibly £204 'Accompanied Check-in Fee' ON TOP OF any damage deposit?
Can they legally charge prospective tenants for landlord checks such as identity, immigration and visa confirmation?
I've got all the docs including bank records, passport (expired), government BPSS vetting etc

From memory when I rented the current place, all I had to pay was the 'refundable' deposit.

I'm very depressed.

[PinkDalek]

Those fees look high - can you point to where you found them?

Here’s a random example for comparison:

https://www.henwickproperties.co.uk/ten ... tal-costs/

[AleisterCrowley]

Click on 'fees apply' below monthly cost
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to ... 50721.html

[PinkDalek]

I’ve just looked at someone “we” use (southern counties) and their fees total about £200 inc VAT. Covering admin fee per tenant, references and check in inventory. Check in £30! Guarantor £90 v your £120.

Maybe Berkshire’s at a premium.

[AleisterCrowley]

Hmm, perhaps I just need to factor in. On a general note is this a relatively 'new' thing ??
As mentioned I don't recall paying much, if anything , beyond the deposit last time rented. In the bad old days there were all sorts of odd charges like 'key money' but I thought these were outlawed?
With the new requirement for visa checks etc, can landlords and their agents legally offload some of the costs to prospective tenants? Guess they can, if they're doing it..

[GoSeigen]

So, does that mean I'm going to get charged £599 'Set up fee' and possibly £204 'Accompanied Check-in Fee' ON TOP OF any damage deposit?
Can they legally charge prospective tenants for landlord checks such as identity, immigration and visa confirmation?
I've got all the docs including bank records, passport (expired), government BPSS vetting etc

From memory when I rented the current place, all I had to pay was the 'refundable' deposit.

I'm very depressed.

AC, it's a racket. We've been corresponding with our MP to try to revive the legislation from the last govenrment re. banning tenant letting fees. Please consider writing to your MP to urge similar.

IMO you can fight it but you have to be cunning, resilient and knowledgeable. From my investigation it is not legal. At a very minimum agents are breaking the laws of Agency and have major conflicts of interest. But nailing them while simultaneously avoiding homelessness and holding down a job is difficult, which is why the racket continues.


The alternative is to use whatever means you can to avoid going through a letting agent. Ask around your acquaintance network for people looking to let their properties. There are a couple of web sites you can google for which offer DIY lettings. Contact your previous landlords. Take your time -- you have several months to find a new place.

Good luck, keep us posted.


GS

[UncleEbenezer]

Those fees look high - can you point to where you found them?

There's a lot of variation between agents. Some are good, others are OK, but all-too-many are downright evil and will take advantage in some pretty unpleasant ways. For example, spring a "renewal charge" on both the landlord and you after six months or a year, or encourage the landlord to push the rent up at ten times the rate of inflation. Bear in mind, your choice is take it or leave it, and while the landlord benefits from having you long-term, the agent maximises fees by driving a tenant out and getting a new one in as often as possible.

Such serious ripoff fees look to me like a warning sign.

Government has been promising to outlaw agent fees to tenants: after all, it's the landlord who appoints them (and probably doesn't even realise how much they're charging tenants). But as we know, our government is seriously useless.

[AleisterCrowley]

Yet more to worry about. The still deep waters of the Thames look tempting. Goodbye cruel world, beloved Tamesis take me in your watery arms...
On the other hand - I may have a beer and a think.

[UncleEbenezer]

Actually, one further thought that might be genuinely useful ...

Google nowadays has customer reviews for many businesses, including letting agents. You might try a search term like "letting agents in Reading" (ignore the ads of course), and see if that yields any clues about how good or bad they are.

[GoSeigen]

Yet more to worry about. The still deep waters of the Thames look tempting. Goodbye cruel world, beloved Tamesis take me in your watery arms...
On the other hand - I may have a beer and a think.

There was a MotleyFool called Mike4 who was a boiler engineer working in the Reading area IIRC. If you contact him never know he might have some bright ideas. His TLF profile and website:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1777
http://www.miketheboilerman.com/

GS

[bungeejumper]

I’ve just looked at someone “we” use (southern counties) and their fees total about £200 inc VAT. Covering admin fee per tenant, references and check in inventory. Check in £30! Guarantor £90 v your £120.

Likewise for us, north Somerset. £220 the last time we had a new tenant, and that was with one of the big name companies. There's just no excuse for these rip-offs.

BJ

[GoSeigen]

Click on 'fees apply' below monthly cost
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to ... 50721.html

Those fees are outrageous. Don't go anywhere near the bastards.

GS

[PinkDalek]

Those fees look high - can you point to where you found them?

There's a lot of variation between agents. … Such serious ripoff fees look to me like a warning sign … it's the landlord who appoints them (and probably doesn't even realise how much they're charging tenants).

Yes, in case you missed it, I'm not the OP and referred him later to the more reasonable fees our tenants are charged. We know full well, as landlords, the level of fees charged to the tenants and our choice of preferred agent takes that into account. He's also rather good.

[UncleEbenezer]

Just one more data point of very marginal relevance. I'm not going to recommend the agent for my present place, or give them the publicity of a link (I wouldn't strongly warn you off, either). But here's a scale of fees for the agent for the place I lived from 2005-2013 with an agent who mostly did the Right Thing: http://www.gbpropertylettings.co.uk/tenants/

[AleisterCrowley]

What's a 'normal' fee for a tenant these days? Additionally what is an acceptable damage deposit?
I notice the place I was looking at reserved the right to charge for 'deep cleaning @ £75 ph to 'return the property to its original state' (hmm wear and tear in normal use!)

[csearle]

I feel your pain. Two years ago I moved into this flat and the estate agent (aka landlord) charged me sooo much money for things associated with moving in (and in advance for moving out). I have to go online and spend 30 minutes each year electronically "signing" every page of some humongous document for which they charge me(!) £96 for their service.

These agencies screw the tenants royally. It should be illegal.

Chris

[UncleEbenezer]

What's a 'normal' fee for a tenant these days?

well, looking at this thread, and from my experience, £200 ballpark is fairly usual. Some much less, some much more.

Additionally what is an acceptable damage deposit?

How long is a piece of string? IME about 1-1.5 months rent is usual. More in some circumstances - e.g. if you have children or pets. I don't consider it a problem, as there is a decent level of legal protection for deposits now.

I notice the place I was looking at reserved the right to charge for 'deep cleaning @ £75 ph to 'return the property to its original state' (hmm wear and tear in normal use!)

I imagine an arbitrator would throw that out in most circumstances - provided you hand it back in a condition a reasonable person would consider clean. But if you regularly pee or smoke on the carpets and curtains, they'll have a good case for lots of deep cleaning.

[UncleEbenezer]

I feel your pain. Two years ago I moved into this flat and the estate agent (aka landlord) charged me sooo much money for things associated with moving in (and in advance for moving out). I have to go online and spend 30 minutes each year electronically "signing" every page of some humongous document for which they charge me(!) £96 for their service.

Chris

I'd refuse to sign that renewal. Call their bluff - because bluff is exactly what it is.

Seriously.

It's absolutely not necessary for the tenancy to continue, and it's very unlikely to be in either the tenant's or the landlord's interests (though rogue agents may try to convince you otherwise). Do you have communication with your landlord?

[mutantpoodle]

you are in Reading, thats uni town area! so it might well be that landlords generally conduct much more comprehensive 'checks' on tenants. after all chasing students is costly, time consuming and unlikely to gain much result...so best avoided. double check to see if that would apply to you or could be avoided because you are not in that 'group'

[UncleEbenezer]

you are in Reading, thats uni town area!

Is there anywhere that isn't a uni town these days, since we rebadged not merely the polytechnics but also keep-them-off-the-streets colleges like the one where Tom Sharpe's Wilt worked?

Students are not at all the same market. Where there is overlap with the general market, it'll be in big HMOs rather than the kind of thing our OP is looking at. Perhaps in the case of the super-rich, there might be something more sumptuous, but surely that would be a different market again, underwritten by the parents or other sponsoring entity.

Though haggling with an agent "You must be joking ..." might just work. I already suggested looking for google reviews, where someone might have reported on such things.