Caller wants to buy my shares!

[Watis]

Last night I took a phone call from what appeared to be a UK mobile phone number.

The caller, a woman with a foreign accent,* knew my name and address and that I hold a small shareholding in a FTSE 100 company.

I was told that they represented someone who wants to acquire a 51% stake in this company and the conversation was clearly going to lead to a proposal to buy my shares.

I brought the call to a conclusion by suggesting they put any proposal in writing and I would consider it then. She said they would.

I then googled the number I had been called from and found that it is being used by companies based in New York which are not approved by the FCA and that I should be wary of doing business with them.

Here's what the FCA has to say about them:

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/warnings/we ... rtners-inc

And another warning naming a different company:

https://www.fi.ee/public/Jacob_Johnson_Consultancy.pdf

So, my questions are:

- Is it normal for shares to be acquired in this way?

- Should I be concerned about anything else that they could do with the information they have?

- Is the shareholder register for PLCs in the public domain and available for anyone to search?

TIA,

Watis

* I only mention the 'woman with a foreign accent' in case it rings any bells with other readers who have received similar calls.

[Alaric]

So, my questions are:

- Is it normal for shares to be acquired in this way?

- Should I be concerned about anything else that they could do with the information they have?

- Is the shareholder register for PLCs in the public domain and available for anyone to search?

The answers are no, perhaps and yes.

If instead of holding shares by certificate, you set up an account with one of the on line Brokers and transfer shares to them, you go off the register.

In your second question there is the risk that if an organisation or political group takes exception to one of the Companies you own, they might seek to put legal or otherwise pressure on those shareholders they can identify through the register.

[gryffron]

Not only abnormal, but what she is proposing is illegal. They would not be permitted to buy a 51% stake from the open market. The purchasers would be required to launch a formal takeover bid once they reach 30%. EU Takeovers Directive (2004/25/EC) implemented in the UK by the Companies Act 2006. Anyone legit would know that. So that should ring even more alarm bells.

Gryff

[PinkDalek]

Last night I took a phone call from what appeared to be a UK mobile phone number.

The caller, a woman with a foreign accent,* knew my name and address and that I hold a small shareholding in a FTSE 100 company.

I was told that they represented someone who wants to acquire a 51% stake in this company and the conversation was clearly going to lead to a proposal to buy my shares. ..

I still get calls concerning shares I owned some years ago.

The short answer is “don’t be polite, just hang up”.

It sounds like you are fairly new to the doubtful pleasures of being called by a Boiler Room. Now you’ve engaged with them and seem to have confirmed your phone number, name and address, expect many more calls of this nature.

They are out to get your money, not to make you rich.

The lengthier answer is to study JakNife’s Boiler Room FAQ from back at TMF.

I’ve saved it on the waybackmachine for future use:

http://web.archive.org/web/201604021555 ... 12932.aspx

Then study it again.

[Alaric]

the conversation was clearly going to lead to a proposal to buy my shares.

Advance fee fraud is what it's sometimes called. They offer to buy at above market price. There is a catch though. You have to pay them some form of fee or payment before the transaction can go ahead. Needless to say, if you pay the fee, you never hear from them again.

[paulnumbers]

Last night I took a phone call from what appeared to be a UK mobile phone number.

The caller, a woman with a foreign accent,* knew my name and address and that I hold a small shareholding in a FTSE 100 company.

I was told that they represented someone who wants to acquire a 51% stake in this company and the conversation was clearly going to lead to a proposal to buy my shares.

I brought the call to a conclusion by suggesting they put any proposal in writing and I would consider it then. She said they would.

I then googled the number I had been called from and found that it is being used by companies based in New York which are not approved by the FCA and that I should be wary of doing business with them.

Here's what the FCA has to say about them:

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/warnings/we ... rtners-inc

And another warning naming a different company:

https://www.fi.ee/public/Jacob_Johnson_Consultancy.pdf

So, my questions are:

- Is it normal for shares to be acquired in this way?

- Should I be concerned about anything else that they could do with the information they have?

- Is the shareholder register for PLCs in the public domain and available for anyone to search?

TIA,

Watis

* I only mention the 'woman with a foreign accent' in case it rings any bells with other readers who have received similar calls.

Interestingly I just heard the CEO of Comcast saying they had a team of 40 people ringing people up trying to buy shares in Sky. So I guess it does go on.

[Alaric]

So I guess it does go on.

The Comcast and Fox offers for Sky were public news. But yes, if you are on the register rather than holding via a Nominee, you can expect to be lobbied on occasion. Sometimes it's by post.

[vrdiver]

Short answer: it's a scam. Hang up.

Long answer: why would they go to the considerable cost of calling individual shareholders and offering to buy shares they could just buy on the open market on-line at trivial cost. If it was to get a bunch of shares (even if only building up to the 30% ownership cap) then at best, they are trying to fix a price with you before Mr Market realises a takeover is likely and the shares re-rate accordingly. i.e. they're trying to get your shares on the cheap. At worst, they're out to get money from you once they've got your attention, a little bit of a relationship and an appeal to your investment greed (which we all have - we all like a profit).

Don't worry that they have confirmed your ID etc. It was all in the public domain anyway. If they send you the paperwork, by all means look at it (for educational purposes of what a scam can look like) but don't respond. You have no contract with them and no obligation. If you can, block any phone numbers of theirs you know of. Any future callers - don't waste your time, just hang up as soon as you realise it's "one of them". It might be fun to play time-wasting games with them but the odds of getting a "psycho" on the other end who decides to make you his revenge object is not zero and you really don't need the aggro of stupid calls, mailings etc.

GDPR may help you here, but as you've invited them to send you information, you've given them permission to contact you. However, if you do talk to them again (but remember rule #1 - hang up asap) you can quote your right under the GDPR regulations not to be contacted again. Any law-abiding company will take that seriously. Oh, hang on...

VRD

[BobbyD]

I'm not entirely sure that a fraudster is going to be too bothered about your data protection rights....

The only way to make this stop is to refuse to engage. Once they realise they are wasting their time on a lead which isn't going to generate income they will cross you off their list. Not many people do this sort of thing for the fun. Don't apologise, don't explain why, don't tell them you know it's a scam, don't say you aren't in a position to consider anything at the moment, just put the phone down.

I'm very sceptical that nominee shareholders aren't listed on internal shareholder registers though since I have received calls from a company lobbying to repel an attempt by an activist investor to get seats on the board. This was a FTSE250 company though, and since I held 1% of the non-voting shares I'm guessing the number of private shareholders was minuscule.

[PinkDalek]

... Once they realise they are wasting their time on a lead which isn't going to generate income they will cross you off their list. ...

Not in my experience, in so far as the lists are onsold, and whether my calls come from Manila or wherever, they often relate to an AIM shareholding I last held in certified form about 10 years ago and haven’t owned in nominee form for about 3 years. Still they persist, so I ask if they are calling about the A or the non-Voting. The line then goes dead, until the next time.

Those calls are obviously trying to seek qualifying leads and if one bites or shows interest a person higher up the chain will appear. I’ve never got to stage two.

[dionaeamuscipula]

I'm not entirely sure that a fraudster is going to be too bothered about your data protection rights....

The only way to make this stop is to refuse to engage. Once they realise they are wasting their time on a lead which isn't going to generate income they will cross you off their list. Not many people do this sort of thing for the fun. Don't apologise, don't explain why, don't tell them you know it's a scam, don't say you aren't in a position to consider anything at the moment, just put the phone down.

I'm very sceptical that nominee shareholders aren't listed on internal shareholder registers though since I have received calls from a company lobbying to repel an attempt by an activist investor to get seats on the board. This was a FTSE250 company though, and since I held 1% of the non-voting shares I'm guessing the number of private shareholders was minuscule.

There is a Company's Act provision which allows companies to go beyond the nominee and get details of the beneficial owner. The resulting register is public in the same way as the underlying register is public.

Although if the company gets to the point where the registered owner is (say) a BVI company, then the trail can go cold. The ultimate penalty for shareholdings that don't co-operate is disapplication of voting rights.


DM

[BobbyD]

... Once they realise they are wasting their time on a lead which isn't going to generate income they will cross you off their list. ...

Not in my experience, in so far as the lists are onsold, and whether my calls come from Manila or wherever, they often relate to an AIM shareholding I last held in certified form about 10 years ago and haven’t owned in nominee form for about 3 years. Still they persist, so I ask if they are calling about the A or the non-Voting. The line then goes dead, until the next time.

Those calls are obviously trying to seek qualifying leads and if one bites or shows interest a person higher up the chain will appear. I’ve never got to stage two.

I'm not saying they'll cross you off everybody else's copy of the list... but any sign of engagement will only get you more calls. You can sell to somebody who talks to you even if they aren't saying very nice things, you can't sell to somebody who just hangs up.

[PinkDalek]

I'm not saying they'll cross you off everybody else's copy of the list... but any sign of engagement will only get you more calls. You can sell to somebody who talks to you even if they aren't saying very nice things, you can't sell to somebody who just hangs up.

Thus my earlier quote:

“don’t be polite, just hang up”.

The longer version of which can be seen in JakNife's old FAQ that I linked to earlier (as taken from the then FSA):

"Boiler room salesmen won't take 'no' for an answer... but they are only interested in taking your money... if in doubt don't be polite, just hang up!"

Those who used to read and/or contribute to TMF's "A fool and His Money" (noting the deliberate lower case f) will know full well how these people operate.

Hopefully none of the readers ever became a Whale but there were plenty of new posters, back in those days, who had already or were about to lose a packet.

The only reason I used to engage with the callers (whilst showing no interest in whatever they were reading from the script) was to get as much information as possible from them and deal with that information through a number of channels. As did many others. Too often I was cut-off by the closer who would be listening in.

Respecting your privacy and no need to reply but did you used to post on TMF (maybe under a different username)? I ask as you may well have contributed to "A fool and His Money" (and the previous board names) and I'm not trying to teach grandmothers (especially as you clearly have knowledge in the area)!

[orchard101]

Some years ago I dabbled in shares. Have not done so for many years. Because I have not changed my telephone number even I am getting calls from boiler rooms.

I usually ask them which shares 2p will buy!. Surprisingly they hang up.