Are Smart meters compulsory?

[jackdaww]

Also, i think its a bit cheeky that the elec companies are installing a device which will use more electricity.

...well they could power them from the unmetered side of the meter

newlyretired

[stewamax]

I have a smart-meter and its hub for electricity because the old meter was high up in a dark corner and particularly difficult to read - and was indoors.

I use a different supplier for gas and refused to have a gas hub and meter: the present gas meter is outdoors and the supplier can read it whenever they want.
I was told by the gas meter 'sales' team that my electricity would need to be off for up to four hours "for safety".
And I was fobbed off when i asked where the power for the meter hub for its internal 'cell-phone' would come from since there is no mains supply nearby. If they took it from the house supply they could not take it from either the electricity supplier's side (since that would be 'stealing electricity', n'est pas?) or from my side (since I would be paying).
No doubt there is a rational explanation..

[Slarti]

I have a smart-meter and its hub for electricity because the old meter was high up in a dark corner and particularly difficult to read - and was indoors.

I use a different supplier for gas and refused to have a gas hub and meter: the present gas meter is outdoors and the supplier can read it whenever they want.
I was told by the gas meter 'sales' team that my electricity would need to be off for up to four hours "for safety".
And I was fobbed off when i asked where the power for the meter hub for its internal 'cell-phone' would come from since there is no mains supply nearby. If they took it from the house supply they could not take it from either the electricity supplier's side (since that would be 'stealing electricity', n'est pas?) or from my side (since I would be paying).
No doubt there is a rational explanation..

My wireless water meter is powered by the water flowing through it and it allows the meter reader to read it from the road.

Perhaps the gas flow would be enough to keep a battery charged?

Slarti

[swill453]

Maybe you do, Scott, but you may also want to wait until you can get a second generation SMETS2 meter.

So my supplier (e·on*) says "At the end of 2018 we’ll be rolling out second-generation SMETS2 smart meters, which mean you’ll stay smart even if you switch. But, don't worry if you have one of our SMETS1 meters we'll simply update your meter remotely to ensure it operates as a SMETS2 meter.". Implying SMETS2 is a software change for their meters. I have no knowledge whether this is spin or not.

* - e·on or E.ON, depending on which bit of their website you're looking at.

Scott.

[DrBunsenHoneydew]

According to this article ( https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp ... t-run.html ), the meter itself doesn't use your electricity. The in-home display uses about 1kWh in a year, so about £1 cost. It is a cots, but hardly noticeable I think.

And I don't think you actually need the in-home display to "benefit" from smart metering....

Since when did electricity cost £1 per kWh ?

[chas49]

According to this article ( https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp ... t-run.html ), the meter itself doesn't use your electricity. The in-home display uses about 1kWh in a year, so about £1 cost. It is a cots, but hardly noticeable I think.

And I don't think you actually need the in-home display to "benefit" from smart metering....

Since when did electricity cost £1 per kWh ?

Good point!

The article said

We also spoke to some of the major energy providers and they confirmed that the amount of energy a smart meter used was about 1 kWh of electricity per year which would cost between 70p and £1.

and I just used that as my example. (Should have checked) Either they have the usage or the total cost wrong by a factor of about 5. 1 kWh is somewhere between 10p and 15p I think....

It does mean that the "cost" of running the in-home display is even less than they say.

Slightly off-topic perhaps, but I now see that OVO are offering their customers a credit of £30 (£15 per fuel) if they have a smart meter fitted this month... they must be badly behind target

The current target date for SMETS1 installations is 5 December 2018 - which AIUI means they can't install these after that date (unless BEIS push the date back again!)

[JohnB]

Diamond Geezer reports getting 13 letters suggesting he get a smart meter, and says the reason is the old-style meters have to be installed by the 5th of December 2018 (http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/11/smets2.html), so the companies are desperate to clear old stock. Of course meters may be upgradeable, and that date has been changed several times, but still I'd refuse to have one until the whole mess is sorted out.

[felixcanis]

We had an email from npower giving us an appointment for installing a smart meter. To cancel this it was necessary to ring them, as it's only possibly to re-arrange the date on-line.

We don't need a smart meter, as we've been sending readings online for many years. The npower contact kept telling me that the major benefit of a smart meter was we'd stop getting estimated bills and we'd be able to see how much electricity we use and how we could save money. I replied that we don't get estimated bills as we send very regular readings and I've been tracking our electric use since 2002. This conversation went around a few circles and eventually npower marked our account as not wanting a smart meter.

Since then we've had a couple of emails asking us to have a smart meter installed. I'm ignoring them in the short term but will tell them to stop if they continue to arrive. That has to be done over the phone. Why can't they just accept that we don't want or need a smart meter?

FelixC

[didds]

1 kWh is somewhere between 10p and 15p I think....
It does mean that the "cost" of running the in-home display is even less than they say.

Or the cost is correct and the amount used is nearer to 10 KWh?

etc

didds

[malakoffee]

I have a nasty feeling that current-generation "Smart Meters" are an almost complete waste of money.

- Anyone remotely interested in electricity / gas / water usage will already be reading their own meter and recording the readings.

- Anyone NOT previously interested is likely to get bored with their indoor energy monitor. The billed values will be more accurate, but if the customer didn't care before, then post-smart-meter why should this be of any greater interest.

I think of the opportunity cost of this poorly executed nonsense. Billions wasted, which might have been better spend on a lot of infrastructure for renewables.

[didds]

- The billed values will be more accurate

presumably because the bill refelects the reading at time and date of the actual bill, but it all comes out oin the wash presumably, and if you supply readings on time it won;t be far out etc.

Not that I disagree with malakoffee at all. I see no benefit whatsoever of having one aside from the miniscule task of taking a reading and submitting it online.

didds

[Maylix]

I see no benefit whatsoever of having one aside from the miniscule task of taking a reading and submitting it online.

didds

One definite disadvantage of having smart meters is that you wont benefit from energy companies incentives for taking your own reading. I just won £50 from Octopus energy (you get to spin an online roulette wheel every time you submit a reading )
Maylix

[Maylix]

aside from the miniscule task of taking a reading and submitting it online.

didds

BTW I make it minisculer by just submitting the same reading as last time but incremented by 10. It makes no difference as the monthly direct debit is set up for a fixed amount. Provided I submit an actual reading once in a while it'll all balance out.

Maylix

[malakoffee]

Yes, that is a good point about direct debit "smoothing". It makes the ACTUAL reading less relevant for billing purposes.

If I were given the choice I would prefer to pay a variable amount by direct debit. I want to know the harsh reality of the winter fuel bills - not have it hidden away by smoothing over the year. The smoothing always seems to end up with my paying in advance for winter usage.

If the energy companies / society really wanted to cut down on fuel usage, they could :-
- scrap the "smoothed" fixed direct debit amounts and bills actual use only
- scrap all fixed elements of the charges and bill on the usage alone.

I think that might focus customer minds. , , , at a minimal cost.

[stevensfo]

If you remove any of the covers, it will 'phone home.
If you put a big magnet near it, it will 'phone home.

How?

Your power can be cut off by someone sitting behind a computer screen at your supplier's head office.

Unless the law has changed, I thought it was impossible to cut off electricity without some kind of court order due to concerns about children suffering because of admin mixups etc.


Steve

[jfgw]

If you remove any of the covers, it will 'phone home.
If you put a big magnet near it, it will 'phone home.

How?

By sending a message using its inbuilt modem via a mobile phone network.

Your power can be cut off by someone sitting behind a computer screen at your supplier's head office.

Unless the law has changed, I thought it was impossible to cut off electricity without some kind of court order due to concerns about children suffering because of admin mixups etc.

Not according to this,

http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fi ... Rights.pdf

A warrant is only needed to gain access to a property (and the cost of this is added to the debt). A warrant is not needed to disconnect the supply from outside the building.

There are procedures and safeguards but, subject to these, a supplier can still disconnect power. A smart meter makes the process of disconnection itself a lot easier (and probably more prone to error).

Julian F. G. W.

[UncleEbenezer]

Unless the law has changed, I thought it was impossible to cut off electricity without some kind of court order .
Steve

Happens to me so often I've given up re-setting the cooker clock between power cuts.

[newlyretired]

Happens to me so often I've given up re-setting the cooker clock between power cuts...

...well my oven (Neff U1644) won't work at all until I reset the clock!

newlyretired

[UncleEbenezer]

Happens to me so often I've given up re-setting the cooker clock between power cuts...

...well my oven (Neff U1644) won't work at all until I reset the clock!

newlyretired

OK, I was guilty there of simplification. I too have to reset the clock. What I've given up on is the longwinded nonsense of trying to set it to the correct time. So whatever time I want to use the oven after a power cut becomes 12:01.

[stevensfo]

Happens to me so often I've given up re-setting the cooker clock between power cuts.

Well, we've never had our electricity cut off due to unpaid bills, but loads of power cuts and yes, like you, I never bother with the clock any more.

Losing the &#%! manual has something to do with it as well. Apart from the obvious control knobs, here are 4 very small knobs and I have no idea what they do.

When we first came to Italy, we were doing so much work on the house that our post often got mislaid and one day our telephone was cut off.
I realised that I must have forgotten about the bill, but for some weird reason (only in Italy!) the internet was still working. So for the next few months I was quite happily using Skype to phone.... till my wife ceased to see the funny side and insisted we get the phone working.

Steve