Smart Meters - Yes or No?

[Clariman]

My energy supplier (Bulb) has written to say that they are installing Smart Meters in the area. Is it a good idea to get one or not?

In theory they make sense if they can give usage info and if no-one needs to come out to read the meter. However, I am aware that there have been reports that it can hamper your ability to switch providers. I vaguely remember reports of inaccurate billing data too. Bulb tell me that there meters can be read by any supplier.

What is the latest thinking on whether they are a good thing or not?

Many thanks
Clariman

[UncleEbenezer]

My energy supplier (Bulb) has written to say that they are installing Smart Meters in the area. Is it a good idea to get one or not?

Your choice. The advantages are mostly vapourware (though in future I expect they'll be a requirement for the best tariffs), and the problems are generally myth and/or history.

In theory they make sense if they can give usage info and if no-one needs to come out to read the meter. However, I am aware that there have been reports that it can hamper your ability to switch providers.

That's historic: those smart meters can no longer be supplied. And administrative: other countries with less insane industry structures didn't have that problem.

I vaguely remember reports of inaccurate billing data too.

Debunked comprehensively here.

Bulb wants you to install it, because they (all the suppliers) are under pressure from government to hit targets. And those targets are hard to hit, because many consumers say no.

[scrumpyjack]

Personally I won't have one, but if you do get one, make sure it is SMETS 2 rather than SMETS 1. Refuse to have a SMETS 1

Which explains

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/smart-m ... r-roll-out

[PrefInvestor]

Just might be a big problem if you have solar panels as there have been various reports of bills increasing following a smart meter installation (possibly charging for what you are generating ?). Other than that (unconfirmed) risk I personally think that they are generally a good thing, should not stop you switching (but make sure you get a SMETS2 meter) and will probably become increasingly essential if you want to get onto the best available gas/electric tariffs (as suppliers progressively bring out more and more Smart Meter only tariffs).

ATB

Pref

[Lanark]

It is a good general rule to never buy or use anything with the word 'smart' in its name.

[forrado]

Simple answer to a simple question – NO

The previous poster’s comment reminds me of what Charlie Munger said. It may be smart and clever to do something, but that’s a long way from meaning it will be beneficial. When in doubt there’s a great deal to be achieved by doing nothing.

[XFool]

Personally I won't have one, but if you do get one, make sure it is SMETS 2 rather than SMETS 1. Refuse to have a SMETS 1

Why? That's not my job AFAIAC. Why are they not doing this?

This seems to me to illustrate the problem. These 'smart' meters just seem to me to complicate something that has heretofore been simple. With no apparent advantage to me.

If I have to do their job for them: SMETS1? SMETS2? I have a simpler and better solution of my own - Just say NO!

[UncleEbenezer]

It is a good general rule to never buy or use anything with the word 'smart' in its name.

Smartarse!

[Watis]

The hidden motive behind getting every household to have a smart meter is to allow the industry to introduce surge pricing.

Here's a couple of articles from the Telegraph explaining this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... e-pricing/

And: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consu ... art-meter/

Now I'm not saying that this is automatically a bad thing - we all need to minimise our energy consumption - but it's not mentioned in any of the promotional material I've received over the years so it's clear that the industry believe it will be perceived negatively by their customers.

We are already seeing tariffs introduced which require the customer to have a smart meter, so it's the thin end of the wedge.

As an aside, the television adverts for smart meters suggest that you'll save money just by having the smart meter, apparently without having to do anything else! Obviously, you'll only get a benefit by turning stuff off - which you can do anyway, without the help of a smart meter.

Watis

[didds]

Not really a reason to have one or not, but everybody I know that has one (well, they've told me anyway!) watched it regularly and used its info to change their habits - and they saved money.

After a while the novelty wore off and they never ever look at their usage etc. They just do what they do.

As for why one might do the energy companies job for them and check/insist on a SMET2 over a SMET1 (assuming one says YES etc), and shouldn't the energy companies be doing that anyway, my cynical suggestion is if not checked etc if they have a stockpile of SMET1s sitting in a warehouse they'll try and use them where they can to get rid of them and not be left with a pile of them and wasted £££ (from their perspective).

didds

[UncleEbenezer]

Not really a reason to have one or not, but everybody I know that has one (well, they've told me anyway!) watched it regularly and used its info to change their habits - and they saved money.

That will of course depend on where you're starting from. How aware of waste were you already?

You might be able to get a measure of that. When I had a water meter installed, my water bills dropped by north of 90% (and no, I'm not one of those people who doesn't always flush). That is to say, my usage was low without any need for a meter that tells me what's being wasted. If your water meter saved you a lesser amount, that would suggest there's scope to improve further without inconvenience, and maybe a smart meter could help with that as it did didds's friends.

As for why one might do the energy companies job for them and check/insist on a SMET2 over a SMET1 (assuming one says YES etc),

ICBW, but I thought we recently passed a legal deadline, after which the industry is no longer allowed to install SMETS1?

[yorkshirelad1]

When I had a water meter installed, my water bills dropped by north of 90%

Presumably that was because you moved from being charged on rateable value to being charged on consumption, not because your consumption changed?

(and no, I'm not one of those people who doesn't always flush).

If it's yellow .....

Shouldn't we all be saving water generally, and saving water by not flushing occasionally when flushing not only uses a lot of water but uses water that's been purified to drinking water standards?

[UncleEbenezer]

When I had a water meter installed, my water bills dropped by north of 90%

Presumably that was because you moved from being charged on rateable value to being charged on consumption, not because your consumption changed?

Yes, exactly.

(and no, I'm not one of those people who doesn't always flush).

If it's yellow .....

Shouldn't we all be saving water generally, and saving water by not flushing occasionally when flushing not only uses a lot of water but uses water that's been purified to drinking water standards?

Well, you're arguing for making sacrifices there, and that particular sacrifice lacks appeal. Maybe in an emergency: state of drought? This is not a part of the country where water supplies get stressed: we have more rain and less pressure of overpopulation than the areas with regular problems.

Though I do make some modest economies. Like using water from the dehumidifier to flush, and taking the opportunity of a free flush in the shower. Or like not overfilling the kettle, though the main saving there is electricity rather than water.

[ayshfm1]

No from me.

I dislike that adverts picturing Children and suggest fitting one will save the planet. In of themselves they don't do any such thing (and even marginally contribute to the planets destruction by dint of having to be made).

Some marketing droid thinks insulting my intelligence is a good way to peddle the things, I beg to differ.

[UncleEbenezer]

Some marketing droid thinks insulting my intelligence is a good way to peddle the things, I beg to differ.

Much as I hate to defend any marketing droid, this is not their doing. It's the government, requiring the industry to roll them out.

[Slarti]

IT chap I follow on Twitter had them fitted in August last year.

They finally got the electric one mostly working yesterday. Now all they've got to do is get the gas one to work.


For historical reasons my house has 2 water meters, water company upgraded them to ones that they can read by wireless, but one of them just doesn't work, so we now get a knock at the door when they need a reading, rather than them reading the output thingy on the outside wall.

I, for one will have smart meters when the law says I must.

Slarti

[pochisoldi]

I get the impression that there is a hidden agenda with smart meters, which will only be revealed when a critical mass of installed smart meters has been achieved, and they can then price "dumb" meter consumers into switching.
A hidden agenda usually means something that the public either won't like, or won't be able to take advantage of.

[gbjbaanb]

I had one put in a while back.

The change is trivial, at worst all that ahppenes is you have a different looking meter that someone comes round to read.

At best though, you have one that reads itself, and tells the energy company how much you're using every half an hour, and lets you see how much you're using too.

You may not think this is a big deal, but I suppose the info could be used by the energy companies to work out a better way to buy energy, or something. I don't care. Surge pricing will never come in anytime soon but even if they do it'll just be a better way of charging you - and things like your dishwasher can then be set to come on when the price is low whether that's during a really sunny/windy spell or at night on E7.

I'm happy with mine, the only effect having it is that I never have to read it. That's worth it all by itself. The little display is nice but hardly essential.

[Watis]

I get the impression that there is a hidden agenda with smart meters, which will only be revealed when a critical mass of installed smart meters has been achieved, and they can then price "dumb" meter consumers into switching.
A hidden agenda usually means something that the public either won't like, or won't be able to take advantage of.

pochisoldi,

ICYMI, I refer you to my earlier post on this matter: viewtopic.php?p=218638#p218638

Watis

[UncleEbenezer]

I get the impression that there is a hidden agenda with smart meters, which will only be revealed when a critical mass of installed smart meters has been achieved, and they can then price "dumb" meter consumers into switching.
A hidden agenda usually means something that the public either won't like, or won't be able to take advantage of.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

Yes, an agenda about which they're being a bit coy: dynamic pricing and demand management. A successor to Economy 7 tied dynamically to actual usage rather than just broad statistical patterns.

But will the public like it? I suspect the pushback is against the lack of clarity more than the agenda itself.

By analogy, consider the introduction of water meters a generation back. They were very coy about that too. The media were full of criticism, their politician and industry interviewees defensive, and against that background the public were naturally suspicious. Yet now we can all see that water meters are a Good Thing.