Histamine v anti-histamine

[brightncheerful]

Mrs Bnc having been prescribed some anti-histamine tablets (prescribed but bought otc) got me wondering whether the 'anti' is interfering with the body's natural defence system. I asked a medical acquaintance but i don't think the person understood what I was getting at.

As i understand, our immune system releases histamine so as to get rid of something prejudicial to one's health. Apparently, it is considered our immune system can over do it: the amount of histamine released can be disproportionate to what is to be got rid of.

Anti-histamine reduces the amount of histamine released so that it is proportionate to what is to be got rid of.

As histamine is a natural process whereas anti-histamine is a 'man-made' concoction, it seems to me that how much histamine the body releases is being got at by a human decision designed to make life easier/more comfortable for the person during the immune system processes, even if the amount of control that the anti exerts could delay natural healing.

Am I correct in thinking that the anti is interfering?

[ReformedCharacter]

It sounds like you are correct:

Although people typically use the word “antihistamine” to describe drugs for treating allergies, doctors and scientists use the term to describe a class of drug that opposes the activity of histamine receptors in the body.

As ever, Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihistamine

RC

[Backache]

Virtually all medicines interfere with the bodies natural process and none are desirable if the body is functioning without problems.
Histamine actually has many different actions in the body and although there is only one histamine there are more than one class of antihistamines. Which generally act on the receptor of histamine rather than reducing the amount of histamine released.

[redsturgeon]

If a medicine had no effect on the body's natural systems then it would be either a placebo or homeopathic.

John

[Backache]

If a medicine had no effect on the body's natural systems then it would be either a placebo or homeopathic.

John

Yes and no, antibiotics generally do have effects on the bodies system but they are side effects the purpose is to affect the bacteria.

[redsturgeon]

If a medicine had no effect on the body's natural systems then it would be either a placebo or homeopathic.

John

Yes and no, antibiotics generally do have effects on the bodies system but they are side effects the purpose is to affect the bacteria.

I had considered that, and to a similar extent you could include anti virals and anti fungals.

Of course the difference between what is a side effect and what is the main effect is merely a matter of marketing, eg. Minoxidil.

John

[Backache]

If a medicine had no effect on the body's natural systems then it would be either a placebo or homeopathic.

John

Yes and no, antibiotics generally do have effects on the bodies system but they are side effects the purpose is to affect the bacteria.

I had considered that, and to a similar extent you could include anti virals and anti fungals.

Of course the difference between what is a side effect and what is the main effect is merely a matter of marketing, eg. Minoxidil.

John

Again a bit yes and no, personally I would call anti fungals antibiotics . Antivirals are a little different because viruses are not really fully alive but require a host and antivirals usually target some form of interaction between the host and the virus.
SIde efffects is a whole new discussion and you can distinguish between side effects that are intrinsic to the purpose of the drug such as drowsiness with some antihistamines and side effects that are purely incidental and sometimes rare such as allergic reactions.

[YoyoJohn]

To answer the OP, much of what happens with our immune system is not a binary outcome, with normal and abnormal definable with any objective quantifiable measure. Immunological response to antigens (whether trauma, infection, or whatever) is graded, and whilst beneficial to a degree (to deal with the insult) the side-effects can be more disabling than the insult itself. For example, the swollen ankle of a sprain representing the massive outflow of fluid and immune cells into the interstitial tissues can impair your movement (and cause more pain) then the sprain. So we elevate, apply ice, and take anti-inflammatories.

With hypersensitivity and allergy (to which I presume the OP is dealing with, given the prescription of anti-histamine) the same is true, with the addition that there are highly abnormal mechanisms at play that result in a sort of feedback loop of immunological response, causing an out-of-proportion response of mast cell degranulation and its release of histamine into the local tissues. In allergy, this massive release of vasodilating substances can be fatal. Anti-histamines reduce, but not eliminate, this chemical release and are an entirely appropriate way of modulating this challenging endogenous compound!

[redsturgeon]

Yes and no, antibiotics generally do have effects on the bodies system but they are side effects the purpose is to affect the bacteria.

I had considered that, and to a similar extent you could include anti virals and anti fungals.

Of course the difference between what is a side effect and what is the main effect is merely a matter of marketing, eg. Minoxidil.

John

Again a bit yes and no, personally I would call anti fungals antibiotics . .

If you called them both antimicrobials then I would concur but anti fungals by definition are not antibiotics.

John

[Backache]

I had considered that, and to a similar extent you could include anti virals and anti fungals.

Of course the difference between what is a side effect and what is the main effect is merely a matter of marketing, eg. Minoxidil.

John

Again a bit yes and no, personally I would call anti fungals antibiotics . .

If you called them both antimicrobials then I would concur but anti fungals by definition are not antibiotics.

John

It's all a bit pedantic but it does depend on what definition you are using .
One definition from a medical dictionary:
Antibiotic n. a substance produced or derived a microorganism that destroys or inhibits the growth of other microorganisms. Antibiotics are used to treat infections caused by organisms that are sensitive to them , usually bacteria or fungi. .....

[paullidd]

It may be worth noting that it is not only drugs and medicines that affect one's body, but also everything else we put into it or absorb from our environment. Below is a list of food and drinks that promote histamine in the body and also some that reduce histamine production. Don't just look at the medication also look at lifestyle.

"According to the current research, everyday foods and drinks rich in histamine include:
alcohol
aged cheeses
canned, pickled, and fermented foods
smoked products, such as sausage, ham, bacon, or salami
legumes, such as chickpeas, soybeans, and lentils
vinegar
many prepared meals
yogurt
salty snack foods
sweets with preservatives
chocolate and cocoa
green tea
most citrus fruits
pineapple
canned fish, such as mackerel and tuna
peanuts
spinach
tomatoes
bananas
eggplant
strawberries
cherries
chili powder
cinnamon
cloves
Foods that may trigger the release of histamine include:
most citrus fruits
cocoa and chocolate
tomatoes
wheat germ
additives, preservatives, and dyes
beans and pulses
nuts
Foods that may interfere with DAO and HMNT levels or actions include:
alcohol
energy drinks
green tea
black tea
mate tea
raw egg whites
some yogurt, depending on bacteria type
Many kinds of bacteria, especially common food contaminants, can also produce a type of histamine in the gut. If these bacteria colonize the gut and multiply, they can generate enough histamine to cause symptoms.
People who may have histamine intolerance or are looking to reduce or reverse the condition will often need to go on a low-histamine diet. Usually, this means limiting the intake of histamine-rich foods rather than excluding them entirely.
People with histamine intolerance should also focus on increasing their intake of foods and drinks low in histamine.
Foods and drinks with low levels of histamine include:
skinned fresh chicken
cooked egg yolk
fresh or flash-frozen meat and fish
most fresh vegetables except tomatoes and eggplants
most fresh fruits and berries besides citrus fruits, strawberries, and cherries
fresh, pasteurized milk and milk products
whole-grain noodles, breads, crackers, and pastas
coconut and rice milk
cream cheese
butter
most non-citrus based juices and smoothies
most herbal teas except black, green, and mate tea
most leafy greens except spinach
most cooking oils"

Regards
Paul

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

Mrs Bnc having been prescribed some anti-histamine tablets (prescribed but bought otc) got me wondering whether the 'anti' is interfering with the body's natural defence system. I asked a medical acquaintance but i don't think the person understood what I was getting at.

As i understand, our immune system releases histamine so as to get rid of something prejudicial to one's health. Apparently, it is considered our immune system can over do it: the amount of histamine released can be disproportionate to what is to be got rid of.

Anti-histamine reduces the amount of histamine released so that it is proportionate to what is to be got rid of.

As histamine is a natural process whereas anti-histamine is a 'man-made' concoction, it seems to me that how much histamine the body releases is being got at by a human decision designed to make life easier/more comfortable for the person during the immune system processes, even if the amount of control that the anti exerts could delay natural healing.

Am I correct in thinking that the anti is interfering?

I've had anti-histamines since I was 7 years old, when my parents realised that I was basically melting one day in a grassy summer meadow. The anti-histamine reduces (but doesn't completely eliminate) my body's own over reaction.

The best AHs by far for me are ones based on

chlorphenamine maleate

since they can make a bit more drowsy in the evening. (Not so much in the middle of an active day). So they are great as non-addictive sleeping pills too.

Matt

[brightncheerful]

Thanks to all: all very interesting.

To complement, a scientific-research (toxicologist) friend has explained to me what a receptor is.