TV License

[AF62]

If you've no licence and you watch "as broadcast" TV...

on a mobile device via free wifi in Costa - how on earth will TVL trace you?
via an amazon fire stick and domestic wifi - how on earth will TVL trace you?
via a device using 4/5G - how on earth will TVL trace you?

Short of catching you red handed?

Because that is what they do - catch people red handed.

All they do is wander down a street with a list of properties with no licence. Listen at the door or peer through the window, then knock on the door and ask if they were watching X and do they have a licence - no? well sign this form to show I was here and we will follow up later.

The follow up is an offer to buy a backdated licence and if it isn't paid a court date is next - and the evidence for the court is the form which was signed. And yes, lots of people sign the form.

They also use TV detector vans, although there have been reports that they don't really detect a TV being watched and are really just a deterrent. The BBC has tried to keep secret how the detection works, perhaps because it doesn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

They never had any detector vans!

Why would you bother with something fancy when all you need is a list of addresses which don’t have licences and you can then knock on the door.

[Lootman]

Because that is what they do - catch people red handed.

All they do is wander down a street with a list of properties with no licence. Listen at the door or peer through the window, then knock on the door and ask if they were watching X and do they have a licence - no? well sign this form to show I was here and we will follow up later.

The follow up is an offer to buy a backdated licence and if it isn't paid a court date is next - and the evidence for the court is the form which was signed. And yes, lots of people sign the form.

They also use TV detector vans, although there have been reports that they don't really detect a TV being watched and are really just a deterrent. The BBC has tried to keep secret how the detection works, perhaps because it doesn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

They never had any detector vans!

Why would you bother with something fancy when all you need is a list of addresses which don’t have licences and you can then knock on the door.

An address may not have a license because there is no TV there. Or because there is a TV but it is never used. If a detectorist knocks on your door and you don't answer then the detectorist would not know for certain that you had a TV. In fact even if you answer the door the detectorist would have to search the entire property if you denied having a TV.

So some means of detecting the use of a TV without entry to a residence would be useful. Too bad there is no easy way to do that, vans or no vans.

[1nvest]

A simple directional light spectrum analyser pointed at a window and even with the curtains drawn that would still tend to see variations in reflection of what light a TV was emitting inside the room. The variations in that could be used to correlate with actual broadcasts at that time to give a high probability of a TV being used and what channel was being watched.

[AF62]

They also use TV detector vans, although there have been reports that they don't really detect a TV being watched and are really just a deterrent. The BBC has tried to keep secret how the detection works, perhaps because it doesn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

They never had any detector vans!

Why would you bother with something fancy when all you need is a list of addresses which don’t have licences and you can then knock on the door.

An address may not have a license because there is no TV there. Or because there is a TV but it is never used. If a detectorist knocks on your door and you don't answer then the detectorist would not know for certain that you had a TV. In fact even if you answer the door the detectorist would have to search the entire property if you denied having a TV.

So some means of detecting the use of a TV without entry to a residence would be useful. Too bad there is no easy way to do that, vans or no vans.

The number of houses with no TV - not zero, but almost zero.
The likelihood a TV is not being used - not zero, but virtually zero.
The probability the TV is hidden away and not smack bang in the middle of the room - not zero, but pretty low.

So taking all that into account, if you have an address which has no licence, the only issue that you highlight is if the occupant doesn’t answer the door. And if you went down the fancy detector route then OK you might increase the probability from virtually certain to certain, but does that really help you.

So they just keep it simple - low income areas they go round knocking on the door in the evening when the TV will be on, door opens to a rabbit-hutch property and you would be able to hear / see the TV - also a reason why more women than men are convicted - they are home the men are down the pub. More upmarket areas where they might get more resistance they just send increasingly strong letters threatening a criminal conviction to any house that doesn’t have a licence, because who doesn’t have a TV.

Meanwhile those who genuinely don’t need a TV licence have to put up with all these shenanigans.

[didds]

They also use TV detector vans, although there have been reports that they don't really detect a TV being watched and are really just a deterrent. The BBC has tried to keep secret how the detection works, perhaps because it doesn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

yes... way back in the day of CRT there was maybe something to measure. As per the wiki article possibly flat screen TVs may emit something possibly measurable.

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

didds

[didds]

Meanwhile those who genuinely don’t need a TV licence have to put up with all these shenanigans.

Years ago (27?) we lived in a property in south london - a maisonnette flat - and didn't have a TV. We used to get a knock on the door - we'd lean out of the window and discourse with them to save us walking downstairs etc. We'd say we have no TV, they could come if they liked. They always declined. Then they'd send the threaning letter. i wasted my time once explaining in a letter. They just kept sending the threatening letters/men round to knock on the door. I gave up writing. We'd just wait for the kncok and invite them in to look which they'd then decline. We never got a summons.

All a bit pointless really.

[AF62]

Meanwhile those who genuinely don’t need a TV licence have to put up with all these shenanigans.

Years ago (27?) we lived in a property in south london - a maisonnette flat - and didn't have a TV. We used to get a knock on the door - we'd lean out of the window and discourse with them to save us walking downstairs etc. We'd say we have no TV, they could come if they liked. They always declined. Then they'd send the threaning letter. i wasted my time once explaining in a letter. They just kept sending the threatening letters/men round to knock on the door. I gave up writing. We'd just wait for the kncok and invite them in to look which they'd then decline. We never got a summons.

All a bit pointless really.

An old colleague of mine who had no TV used to do similar and enjoyed the debate with them. Mind you they also used to go to timeshare presentations for fun to ask awkward questions.

They also use TV detector vans, although there have been reports that they don't really detect a TV being watched and are really just a deterrent. The BBC has tried to keep secret how the detection works, perhaps because it doesn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

yes... way back in the day of CRT there was maybe something to measure. As per the wiki article possibly flat screen TVs may emit something possibly measurable.

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

didds

There is nothing, there never has been anything (other than a theoretical lab test on CRT which disappeared years ago anyway).

Even the 'security' on the BBC iPlayer is just a "have you got a TV licence" question, plus the need to register with an email address, which if you were stupid enough to use when you sent them the declaration for 'no I don't need a licence' they match up and go - 'are you sure'.

[bungeejumper]

They never had any detector vans!

Never is a long time. They had them in our area forty years ago, because I used to see them, clearly labelled. As to whether they actually did anything, the popular wisdom used to be that their equipment consisted of a revolving roof aerial and two bowler-hatted men drinking tea inside with an official mission to frighten the neighbourhood into coughing up.

Then again, I did hear of a friend of a friend who got the Official Knock at his ninth storey flat, whereupon he was told which channel he'd been watching. And was duly walloped for a pretty hefty fine.

D'you think Alexa would split on you if they asked her? Semi-serious question. After all, she hears everything, doesn't she?

BJ

[AF62]

They never had any detector vans!

Never is a long time. They had them in our area forty years ago, because I used to see them, clearly labelled. As to whether they actually did anything, the popular wisdom used to be that their equipment consisted of a revolving roof aerial and two bowler-hatted men drinking tea inside with an official mission to frighten the neighbourhood into coughing up.

"Clearly labelled" - hmm, I wonder why that was...

Then again, I did hear of a friend of a friend who got the Official Knock at his ninth storey flat, whereupon he was told which channel he'd been watching. And was duly walloped for a pretty hefty fine.

Quick look at the TV schedules and make a guess depending on who answers the door, just like cold psychic reading you will often be lucky.

D'you think Alexa would split on you if they asked her? Semi-serious question. After all, she hears everything, doesn't she?

I believe has been used in some criminal cases in America.

[UncleEbenezer]

We used to get a knock on the door - we'd lean out of the window and discourse with them to save us walking downstairs etc. We'd say we have no TV, they could come if they liked. They always declined.

Once upon a time (likely 2005) they called on me. The man accepted my invitation to look around and verify there was no telly. No nasty letters for quite a few years after that: I think they started again just before my next house move in 2013.

[Mike4]

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

Not from a van but sure as hell easy to do back at your ISP, I'd wager.

Do you trust your ISP not to spill the beans?

[UncleEbenezer]

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

Not from a van but sure as hell easy to do back at your ISP, I'd wager.

Do you trust your ISP not to spill the beans?

It would be a clear violation of Data Protection for your ISP to share any such data.

Unless you were under investigation for something sufficiently serious for them to be served a court order. I've no idea what the threshold for that might be.

[Lootman]

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

Not from a van but sure as hell easy to do back at your ISP, I'd wager.

Do you trust your ISP not to spill the beans?

It would be a clear violation of Data Protection for your ISP to share any such data.

Unless you were under investigation for something sufficiently serious for them to be served a court order. I've no idea what the threshold for that might be.

And if you used a VPN then your ISP wouldn't know what you were doing anyway.

[didds]

But what about a PC + monitor streaming something - is that detectable from a van?

Not from a van but sure as hell easy to do back at your ISP, I'd wager.

Do you trust your ISP not to spill the beans?

well it depends I guess. if you are that bothered run it rhough a vpn, even TOR and that's you copvered. Depending on where you live and how you get there, piggy back off of free costa etc wifi or a neighbour with a tv liocence and you are home safe. Ditto possibly via a 4/5G connection.

its pretty easily avoided if you are that bothered.