Fridge query

[Sunnypad]

Hello lovely Fools
As ever, a weird question.

I live in one of those over insulated flats. Every spring and summer, the fridge gets confused and starts to freeze things. There seems to be a debate over whether it needs to be colder or warmer. Some neighbours say if you turn it down because it's freezing things, the fridge just works harder?!

There's no meat in there, the cheese is fine but the salad is almost frozen.

Before I restock tomorrow, do I turn the fridge up or down? I.e. colder or less cold?

Thanks.

[csearle]

Well if the bloody thing was working properly it would attempt to regulate the temperature to that which you have set regardless of the outside (room) temperature. How hard it has to work to achieve this should be its business; not yours.

But if it insists on you getting involved then the less hot it is in the room the easier its job is.

If it gets colder than normal when it is warmer in the room then this suggests to me (I am not a "fridge-engineer") that the thermostat involved in regulating the inside temperature is being overly influenced by the temperature outside of the fridge. Hard really to imagine in practice. Bad design maybe?

Chris

[Sunnypad]

I agree

All these flats came with the same kitchen stuff and all the same issues.

But, short of replacing it, what to do?

[csearle]

Short of replacing it I suspect there only remains a redesign of the fridge! This might start with an investigation of the existing regulation loop. A cheap fridge thermometer placed next to the one inside the fridge might help to start seeing if the fridge is actually trying to regulate the inside temperature at all. This might be a good experiment to start.

It could be that the thermostat is outside of the fridge "compartment". It might be supplied with air from within via a vent of some kind. If this was blocked or not working for some reason it might just be attempting to regulate the temperate of the air within the fridge but outside of the food compartment. This might explain your symptoms.

I think you need to investigate or replace the fridge or put up with frozen salad!

Chris

[jfgw]

Some neighbours say if you turn it down because it's freezing things, the fridge just works harder?!

That sounds like complete bunkum; a fridge doesn't work harder by cooling less. Maybe those neighbours don't realise that a higher number means colder.

The thermostat should keep the temperature the same all year 'round. What sort of fridge is it? Is it integrated? Just a fridge or a fridge-freezer? A model number may help.


Julian F. G. W.

[mc2fool]

All these flats came with the same kitchen stuff and all the same issues.

Well then it's going to be either an issue with that model of fridge, or a problem with the installation.

You can try googling for the problem specifying the model name/number to see if it is a general problem with that model.

Is the fridge free standing, with the condenser coils at the back open to the room, or is it installed inside an unvented cabinet with nowhere for the heat to go?

[gryffron]

Is it a fridge or a fridge-freezer? A fridge freezer might be working very hard to keep the frozen stuff frozen, and thus over-cooling the fridge part.

Another option: Lack of suitable ventilation at the rear of the fridge? If the back panel is getting, and remaining, very hot, maybe this heat is affecting the thermostat? If that too is mounted on the inside rear wall, as is common.

Gryff

[AleisterCrowley]

My old fridge had a temp control marked 1-6
A typical fridge temperature is 1C to 6C
Inevitably, 6 was the coldest setting and 1 the warmest. D'oh!
My current (Bosch) one sensibly has LEDs marked 2C to 8C

[Mike4]

Is it a fridge or a fridge-freezer? A fridge freezer might be working very hard to keep the frozen stuff frozen, and thus over-cooling the fridge part.

Another option: Lack of suitable ventilation at the rear of the fridge? If the back panel is getting, and remaining, very hot, maybe this heat is affecting the thermostat? If that too is mounted on the inside rear wall, as is common.

Gryff

These are the important questions to which answers are needed. Along with make and model of the fridge.

In addition, I suspect few fridges these days have a simple on/off thermostat as we know them. I know little about fridges but last time I had occasion to investigate fridge temperature control properly, I remember it being anything but simple!

[servodude]

The cheese is fine but the salad is almost frozen.

- swap them around

But as everyone else has said a fridge should be "set and forget"
The idea is pretty simple - it transfers the heat from inside to outside if a thermometer reading is above where it is set

So if it's not working as you'd like there are a couple of things worth considering
- where the thermometer (there could be more than one) is in the fridge
- and how free is the heat exchanger to work (coils/blades at the back typically)

If the thermometer is in the "wrong" place (by design), or has something pressed up against it can read too high and cause the fridge to get too cold
- also if it's aiming to set the top self to 1deg then the lower part of the fridge will be colder for most of the time (a combination of hot air rising and doors being occasionally open to let the cold air out)
- I have a fridge thermometer which is useful to confirm things are working (and to encourage people to shut the door - or at least stop the "The fridge isn't working" complaints on a 45deg day)

If the air outside is too warm the heat exchange can be much slower
- if you can get in behind it - vacuuming the layer of ooze that lives on the blades can help (it's a warm fuzzy blanket which stops them from cooling down)
- if yours is a fitted unit it's possible that having the heating over winter is causing it to work less efficiently so that it's not until spring/summer that it's actually able to cool it down to the setting that was chosen

-a nd make sure there's no blocked vents - condensate needs to be able to drain out

- sd

[Sunnypad]

Thank you for all the replies.

It's a Smeg, no model number visible.

integrated fridge, so no access to back.

What I can say is that it wasn't this bad the last few years, it's normally June that it starts playing up. This year it's been most of April. The internal temp of the flat has to be about 27 usually before it plays up. This is frequent due to the overinsulated very hot flat factor.

Heating rarely used in winter so not much change for the fridge to cope with.

Other items are fine though sometimes the yogurt is colder than it should be!

I do get through a lot of salad now though.

I can imagine a fridge thermostat is not simple. This is why I wondered if neighbours were right.

[88V8]

It's a Smeg, no model number visible.

integrated fridge, so no access to back.

So is there a vent at the front where it can take in cool(ish) air and a vent at the back where it can blow the hot air out?

V8

[Sunnypad]

V8 - not that I can see, and I can just behind the kickboard.

The back wouldn't have anywhere to vent to.

The separate freezer temporarily packed up in the heatwave of 2018. The manual said it can't operate in a room over 35 degrees. My room temp thermostat can't operate above 33 and it didn't display a temp many days that summer.

I do wonder if it's worth keeping a mini drinks fridge in the hallway which doesn't get sun.

This is going to be an increasing problem as over insulated flats are a norm so I wonder if fridges will evolve!

[jfgw]

The model number is usually inside on the left. You may have to remove a salad drawer to see it.

Poor ventillation would just mean that the compressor would have to work harder and burn out quicker; it shouldn't make the fridge go colder. It is worth checking though.

Is it under-counter? These are vented at the bottom and have a fan so ventillation is unlikely to be a problem.

If it is in-column, there should be, usually, 200 sq. cm of ventillation top and bottom. This is rarely a problem but is worth checking. If the cabinet does not touch the ceiling, ventillation at the top should be ok. As long as the side panels both sides of the fridge do not reach the floor, there is usually enough ventillation at the bottom even if it isn't immediately below the fridge.

Fridge thermostats are usually simple things. Is every part of the fridge too cold?


Julain F. G. W.

[Sunnypad]

The model number is usually inside on the left. You may have to remove a salad drawer to see it.

Poor ventillation would just mean that the compressor would have to work harder and burn out quicker; it shouldn't make the fridge go colder. It is worth checking though.

Is it under-counter? These are vented at the bottom and have a fan so ventillation is unlikely to be a problem.

If it is in-column, there should be, usually, 200 sq. cm of ventillation top and bottom. This is rarely a problem but is worth checking. If the cabinet does not touch the ceiling, ventillation at the top should be ok. As long as the side panels both sides of the fridge do not reach the floor, there is usually enough ventillation at the bottom even if it isn't immediately below the fridge.

Fridge thermostats are usually simple things. Is every part of the fridge too cold?


Julain F. G. W.

I see what you mean re ventilation.

Looks like model is KMG16V.

It's the lower part, I think the top shelf is okay. I think I'll get a fridge thermometer. I could get a new fridge but don't want to end up with the same problem.

[Itsallaguess]

There's no meat in there, the cheese is fine but the salad is almost frozen.

I only mention this because it's not been covered already, but have you carefully checked the condition of the door-seal, all the way round?

If the door isn't sealing properly, then I imagine the compressor may be getting asked to work overtime, which could result in the types of issues you're having, and given that it should be a fairly simply check, where you can also give the door seal a good clean around the contacting surfaces with a damp cloth at the same time, then I just thought it worth covering...

Also, just for info - do you normally stock the fridge quite full, or is there plenty of scope for air circulation?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[UncleEbenezer]

Salad shouldn't be refrigerated. It wants a larder temperature: something around 12° is ideal.

That's also good for many other things: cheese&butter, long-term wine storage and English beer to name a few. Yet the only appliances sold in Blighty that hold stuff at that temperature have some very idiosyncratic designs and are called wine coolers. I have fond memories of the no-nonsense three-compartment Fridge/Freezer/Larder I had for some of my time in Italy.

[Sunnypad]

The cooler box might be the best idea

To answer other questions

I think the unit might be from when the flat was built in 2004

The door seal is fine

There's never been an issue in winter

After breaking vertebrae in my 30s, I can barely move the sofa, much less remove a backboard and pull out a fridge! But do people with integrated fridges ever do this? I had a similar fridge in my last place but that flat was [expletive deleted] freezing.

The fridge is probably averagely full most of the time, never bursting.

It's clearly stuff with a high water content that's freezing so I think I will just store that in a cooler box or something.

Thanks everyone, I was hoping it might be a part that malfunctions above a certain temp or something but I guess not.

[Sunnypad]

This fridge has done this every year since 2004?

RVF

I doubt it. I don't think it did it the first couple of years I was here but being honest, I wouldn't know for sure because I was rarely here and definitely didn't have salad leaves in the fridge on the rare occasions I was here.

It's certainly acting up earlier than it usually does.

I have not been here since 2004.

I think I've had all possible answers, thanks guys.

[88V8]

I see what you mean re ventilation.

Looks like model is KMG16V.

The SMEG manual download facility doesn't like that model no. https://www.smeguk.com/info/download-manuals

If you can find the installation manual it will give you the ventilation requirements. Then you might have to get out your drill.

V8