Smart meters

[Arizona11]

I have been on the internet to try and find out why I should get a smart meter. There is blurb about how it will help cut CO2 emissions but no actually explanation as to how this is achieved. Yes, I will be able to see what I am using but how does that cut emissions?

[kiloran]

They expect that you will check the display frequently, note that you are using, say, 1kW, then hunt down the offending item and switch it off
I don't see any benefit until the ability of the supplier to change the cost per unit by the time of day becomes commonplace. That may encourage the consumer to use the washing machine, for example, in the evening with cheaper rates, but I don't see that reducing CO2, just shifting the timing.
There will be reduced cost to the supplier since they don't need to send someone round every year or so to read your meters, but whether that compensates for the cost of supplying and fitting smart meters is doubtful in my view.

I think it's a very poorly thought-out process.

--kiloran

[richlist]

Its really quite simple. The 'blurb' says it will help cut emissions.....that's because :-
1. Some people will look at the monitor and turn stuff off to cut consumption. And
2. A man wont need to drive to your house to get a meter reading.And
3. Some tariffs require the consumer to have a smart meter.

[gryffron]

I don't see any benefit until the ability of the supplier to change the cost per unit by the time of day becomes commonplace. That may encourage the consumer to use the washing machine, for example, in the evening with cheaper rates, but I don't see that reducing CO2, just shifting the timing.

It reduces CO2 if the variable tariffs can encourage use of renewables/overnight nuclear. Such Tariffs are available right now, and are certain to become more commonplace, as the whole renewables/electric car thing really can't be made to work without them.

I think they're also required when you sell your juice back to the grid (i.e. from solar panels etc) -I could be wrong on that though.
And if you do get panels, then using your washing machine at peak sunshine will cut emissions obviously. The smart meter will tell you when the panels are being most productive.

Welcome back Snorvs.
On the older Feed-In-Tariff you got paid for everything you generated gross. Regardless of whether you used it yourself or exported it back to the grid. And yes, that effectively meant you could be paid twice if you used it yourself.
The newer Smart Export Guarantee works as you suggest. Your smartmeter will record your net exports and net imports separately, at different tarriffs. So yes, if you now get solar/battery/electric-car-which-can-export, then you need a smartmeter to sell your power back to the grid.

Gryff

[didds]

Its really quite simple. The 'blurb' says it will help cut emissions.....that's because :-
1. Some people will look at the monitor and turn stuff off to cut consumption. And
2. A man wont need to drive to your house to get a meter reading.And
3. Some tariffs require the consumer to have a smart meter.

2) we haven't had a man (or a woman. or a person of whatever they choose to self identify as) visit our house to read the meter - whether driving, walking, cycling, flying or using a portkey,for years. Probably more like over a decade. Others of course may have somebody driving ,miles each week every week to their house!

3) how does that cut emissions in itself?

didds

[staffordian]

As I see it, smart meters, especially the flawed ones originally rolled out*, increase emissions.

First, they have to be manufactured, using energy.

Then transported, stored, fitted etc, all taking energy to replace something which doesn't need replacing.

And finally, once installed they use more energy than dumb meters, to both power the in house display and to phone home with readings.

And we are all paying for the rollout with higher bills whether we wamt one or not...

*Because after all the above, AIUI many are now just dumb meters as they were unable to deal with a change in supplier

[scrumpyjack]

SO Energy keep ringing up to arrange an appointment to put one in and I always refuse. IMO they are a complete waste of time. If it were possible to designate some household devices as 'interruptible' and the smart meter could suspend those devices for half an hour or so, then fine that might achieve some national benefit in managing the grid. but the info it gives will not change my usage one kw. It will use more electricity and costs the country tens of billions. It is crazy!. My solar panels work fine, I can see no reason at all to have one.

[didds]

agree with both the above.

They seem somewhat emperor's new clothes.

[AF62]

I don't see any benefit until the ability of the supplier to change the cost per unit by the time of day becomes commonplace. That may encourage the consumer to use the washing machine, for example, in the evening with cheaper rates, but I don't see that reducing CO2, just shifting the timing.

It reduces CO2 if the variable tariffs can encourage use of renewables/overnight nuclear. Such Tariffs are available right now, and are certain to become more commonplace, as the whole renewables/electric car thing really can't be made to work without them.

The only issue is knowing *when* the renewables are available - which often isn't in advance so even if you had a timer you probably couldn't set your washing machine to do it at those rates, but you might be able to do it with other things.

Octopus offer an 'intelligent' tariff that will charge compatible electric cars for six hours overnight with the "greenest and cheapest" electricity - but you don't know in advance *when* those six hours are. It might be at this time or it might be at that time or it might be a bit here and a bit there; just overall it adds up to six hours.

The compatible electric cars are those which will only take a charge when they get told the cheap rate is on and will stop when the cheap rate is off. So fine for a car being charged, less good for the washing machine which normally needs to run for a single period.

[didds]

[if] you don't know in advance *when* those six hours are. It might be at this time or it might be at that time or it might be a bit here and a bit there; just overall it adds up to six hours.

The compatible electric cars are those which will only take a charge when they get told the cheap rate is on and will stop when the cheap rate is off. So fine for a car being charged, less good for the washing machine which normally needs to run for a single period.

isnt this what Bluetooth was supposed to provide for ? How long has BT been around now?

[richlist]

Its really quite simple. The 'blurb' says it will help cut emissions.....that's because :-
1. Some people will look at the monitor and turn stuff off to cut consumption. And
2. A man wont need to drive to your house to get a meter reading.And
3. Some tariffs require the consumer to have a smart meter.

2) we haven't had a man (or a woman. or a person of whatever they choose to self identify as) visit our house to read the meter - whether driving, walking, cycling, flying or using a portkey,for years. Probably more like over a decade. Others of course may have somebody driving ,miles each week every week to their house!

3) how does that cut emissions in itself?

didds

2. That's why it says it will help.....it's a catch all that includes those that have a regular meter reader.......most people need their meter read once every year or two. If you haven't had your meter read for the last 10 years I'd suggest you are an exception rather than the norm.
3. I think you will find that question has already been answered earlier in the thread.

[MrFoolish]

My "smart" meter has a wheel in it. The more electricity I use, the faster it spins. It has a very clever display, almost looks 3D.

[AF62]

[if] you don't know in advance *when* those six hours are. It might be at this time or it might be at that time or it might be a bit here and a bit there; just overall it adds up to six hours.

The compatible electric cars are those which will only take a charge when they get told the cheap rate is on and will stop when the cheap rate is off. So fine for a car being charged, less good for the washing machine which normally needs to run for a single period.

isnt this what Bluetooth was supposed to provide for ? How long has BT been around now?

Not really, and in reality the mechanism to make all this work is just mobile phones.

The smart meter is connected to the mobile phone network so it can know the rates (at least for the south of England), the EV charger is connected to the mobile phone network to know when the cheap rates are to feed it to the car, and the car is connected to the mobile phone network to tell the charger what it needs and to know when it is going to get it.

So nothing particularly technology fancy, just lots of interlinking things that need to talk to each other.

My "smart" meter has a wheel in it. The more electricity I use, the faster it spins. It has a very clever display, almost looks 3D.

I know there isn’t much to watch on TV these days, but things are bad if that is the alternative.

[DrFfybes]

My "smart" meter has a wheel in it. The more electricity I use, the faster it spins. It has a very clever display, almost looks 3D.

Have you thought about getting a hamster?

[richlist]

As you don't own the smart meter........surely the important question is why are you paying for the electricity to spin the wheel in a smart meter that belongs to someone else ?

[didds]

I know there isn’t much to watch on TV these days, but things are bad if that is the alternative.

seems about right . watching the wheel I mean.

[scrumpyjack]

I know there isn’t much to watch on TV these days, but things are bad if that is the alternative.

seems about right . watching the wheel I mean.

It is satisfying to watch it go backwards occasionally

[Mike4]

An interesting thing I've just heard about smart gas meters, is they are not compatible the hydrogen roll-out which our politicians love to keep prattling on about. So if the hydrogen switchover ever happens, everyone will need another new gas meter.

Not that it will ever happen in my opinion, as there are loads of other, better things we should be using scarce hydrogen for ahead of piping it into houses to burn in boilers and cookers.

[tjh290633]

An interesting thing I've just heard about smart gas meters, is they are not compatible the hydrogen roll-out which our politicians love to keep prattling on about. So if the hydrogen switchover ever happens, everyone will need another new gas meter.

Did we get new meters when we switched from Town's Gas (50% H2) to Natural Gas? They replaced them every so many years, in any case. Measurement of volume is the only criterion.

TJH

[bungeejumper]

Did we get new meters when we switched from Town's Gas (50% H2) to Natural Gas? They replaced them every so many years, in any case. Measurement of volume is the only criterion.

No scientist here, but I'm guessing that the stored heat in a litre of hydrogen is different to that of a litre of natural gas, so there'd need to be a numerical adjustment to the cost per metered litre. Not beyond the wit of man to achieve, of course, but possibly beyond that of British Gas, in my experience. (Don't even ask..... )

Another off-the-wall speculative thought. Smaller molecules raising questions about gas tightness through the meter?

BJ