Property survey

[Imbiber]

We have accepted an offer on our property. We have had an offer accepted on a property. Time for a survey. Our neighbour, and friend, has offered to do a (free) survey on the property we are buying. He is a structural engineer with his own company. Are there any caveats here?

[Laughton]

If he gets something wrong how will you feel about suing him?

[Rhinocol]

If your buying with a mortgage the lender ( bank/ building society ) will want to carry out their own survey (at your expense !)

[Imbiber]

Thanks for both replies. No mortgage, cash from sale.

[staffordian]

Call me cynical, but I don't think surveys are worth the expense.

We had one a decade ago when buying our current property as a cash purchase and found it a total waste of time and money.

The key problem is that even the best surveyors are constrained in terms of what they can do because they can't start ripping places apart to check for problems; they can't dig around to check the foundations are sound; they can probably not even lift carpets to check the condition of the floorboards, because the property is owned by a third party who will obviously not want their property damaged or scarred in any way.

There was nothing in our survey that I could not have deduced for myself and was so full of caveats and ar5e-covering phrases that I wish I'd not bothered.

[Mike4]

If he gets something wrong how will you feel about suing him?

There will be more chance of success than suing any 'paid for' survey due to all the caveats and get-outs written into their T&Cs.

[bluedonkey]

We had a level 3 RICS survey done very recently. The cost was about £1000 plus VAT. It was worth it for the specific issues he found with the property.

[ReformedCharacter]

Just over 30 years ago we had a property survey arranged by the mortgage provider. After moving in we found evidence of a long standing damp problem, caused in part by the render on the back of the house having lost key with the wall. Eventually a loss adjuster appeared, made some inspections and I mentioned that there had been mould visible at the back of a washbasin cabinet when we moved in. I said that my mother-in-law had seen the mould on the day we arrived. He duly made an appointment to interview my mother-in-law. Shortly afterwards he reappeared with the surveyor who looked pretty pi**ed off. The loss adjuster tapped on the render with a hammer to demonstrate to the surveyor the problem with the render. The surveyor made us a payment which pretty much paid for the back wall to be re-rendered. I'll never forget how pi**ed off the surveyor looked.

RC

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Just over 30 years ago we had a property survey arranged by the mortgage provider. After moving in we found evidence of a long standing damp problem, caused in part by the render on the back of the house having lost key with the wall. Eventually a loss adjuster appeared, made some inspections and I mentioned that there had been mould visible at the back of a washbasin cabinet when we moved in. I said that my mother-in-law had seen the mould on the day we arrived. He duly made an appointment to interview my mother-in-law. Shortly afterwards he reappeared with the surveyor who looked pretty pi**ed off. The loss adjuster tapped on the render with a hammer to demonstrate to the surveyor the problem with the render. The surveyor made us a payment which pretty much paid for the back wall to be re-rendered. I'll never forget how pi**ed off the surveyor looked.

RC

I started my career (if I can refer to it as that ) as a Quantity Surveyor. Over the years I've taught myself and expanded my capabilities. Many Quantity Surveyors in house building and the general contracting world can waft spreadsheets about at lightening speeds and sit down for limitless periods of time discussing the information on them. The frequency with which they will also talk about and consider the introduction of, yet another column is frightening.

Some of the spreadsheets I have seen belong in art galleries. They are mind boggling. When printed out on A4 you can’t read them as there is some much crammed onto them.

However, when they are tasked with understanding just how something is built they glaze over. It has always been and always will be. If the person paying the bill, which in house building and general contracting is the QS, has little or no understanding of what is needed to build something how can that person genuinely know what [the hell] they are paying for? Without being dramatic, the waste I have seen in the industry because of poorly trained QS's is simply staggering.

I could call myself a bricklayer today and turn up somewhere to lay bricks. That wouldn't make me a bricklayer though

AiY(D)

[88V8]

Call me cynical, but I don't think surveys are worth the expense.

There was nothing in our survey that I could not have deduced for myself and was so full of caveats and ar5e-covering phrases that I wish I'd not bothered.

I tend to agree, but after 50 years of fairly intensive DIY and spending a lot of time on an Old House forum, I regard myself as pretty well up to speed with common issues. A survey might be useful for a noob.

When we moved here, to a house 300 years older than our previous, I did commission a specialist surveyor, but I found his oral comments more valuable than the written which in the main flagged up 'issues' that I did not care about. He also told me which of his written comments could be disregarded because "we have to mention that even though it's insignificant."

V8

[TahiPanasDua]

I am a retired architect. As a result, I have relied on my own surveys and have only used any available official survey as a cross-check. I never found any new revelations in their inspections.

Maybe this is only the case in Scotland, but all the surveyors say they only stick their heads in roof spaces, subfloors, etc. That worries me a bit. As the prospective owner I get up/down there where possible and have a good look in the dark corners where problems can lurk. It helps that I actually enjoy it!!!!

Basically, I find the official surveys to be near useless as they seem to comment on the glaringly obvious and profusely cover their rectal areas as previously commented.

TP2

[bluedonkey]

One development I noticed in the recent survey we had done was that the surveyor used a drone to look at the roof close up.

[UncleEbenezer]

One development I noticed in the recent survey we had done was that the surveyor used a drone to look at the roof close up.

My neighbour where I used to live was a drone enthusiast. When a storm brought down what looked like roof tiles, he was able to inspect the roofs and find which roof had been damaged. Not his, nor mine.

[mutantpoodle]

If your buying with a mortgage the lender ( bank/ building society ) will want to carry out their own survey (at your expense !)

others might have pointed this out..if so I apologose as I have missed it

most building society or bank surveys are VALUATION surveys...taken to consider if the loan is backed by a saleable assetview/opnion of the condition o

they are usually NOT a survey of condition or state of the property

[Clitheroekid]

Having acted in hundreds, if not thousands of house purchases over the years I can hardly ever remember seeing a survey that revealed anything useful. The vast majority contain 1 or 2 pages of information and 20 pages of disclaimers and exclusion clauses!

In many cases they will attempt to pass the buck by saying that they haven’t been able to investigate an (often important) aspect of the property and that the buyer should obtain a specialist independent report.

However, I would never have dared to advise a buyer that they were wasting their time, as my professional indemnity insurers would have thrown a hissy fit – and I could have guaranteed that it would be the one occasion when a survey would have revealed a drastic defect with the property.

On the numerous occasions that I’ve bought property in my own right I have never employed a surveyor, and have instead had the property looked at by a competent and reliable builder. I’ve invariably found their practical knowledge of buildings and the type of faults that are important to be infinitely more valuable than any surveyor’s report. However, these inspections have always been on the basis that the builder will not incur any liability to me, which enables them to be far more honest and straightforward in their assessment.

[88V8]

....a competent and reliable builder. ...

Forsooth, a unicorn.

V8

[DrFfybes]

I'll agree with pretty much everyone else - the 60+ page report for this place didn't contin much we hadn't spotted and nothing a builder mate spotted within 5 min.

In Plymouth it was a cash purchase of a standard 1930 terrace - our friend said "All the others along here are still standing so chances are yours is fine too". He looked at the roof anf through the loft hatch, sniffed under the stairs, tapped the render on the front and said "Try and get £8k off for a new roof".

We got £5k off, and it cost us a Chinese meal.

Paul

[Dicky99]

Having acted in hundreds, if not thousands of house purchases over the years I can hardly ever remember seeing a survey that revealed anything useful. The vast majority contain 1 or 2 pages of information and 20 pages of disclaimers and exclusion clauses!
.

That's such nonsense. I never did house buyer surveys but a significant amount of my 36 years in building surveying was concerned with defect diagnosis and refurbishment of housing stock.
Most people who buy a house are not property experts and don't have a pet builder to call on, they're lay people. They pay for a survey because they need someone else to point out what to some are even the most obvious defects which will hopefully put them in a better bargaining position.
The cost of fixing the defective haunches and flashings on the chimney stack, the flat roof covering that's close to the end of it's useful life or the dpc that's been bridged by the new pavings could all be bargaining chips once highlighted.
Considering what an undiagnosed defect costs to resolve these days, something as obvious as pointing out that the gutters show evidence of leaking, as a bargaining chip, could offset the entire cost of the survey and that's before consideration of the insurance policy it provides in terms of negligent omissions which, by the way, cannot be avoided with pages of disclaimers.
As for builders, I've worked with too many to mention over the 36 years. Some I had a great deal of respect for and would happily have a discussion of equals on building practical matters but not on surveying matters because builders are not and cannot be expected to be competent in surveying.

Regarding the OP I'd say if your Structural Engineer friend is happy to do a written report for you backed up by PI I'd say why not. If though it's off the record advice, as I've occasionally given to friends in the past, I'd say still get a report done because if your friend finds a horror you could walk away thereby avoiding the abortive costs but if all looks ok at least you know you're unlikely to be incurring an abortive survey cost and get you PI cover.

[brightncheerful]

In the case of Lejonvarn v Burgess 2020 [EWCA Civ 114; [2020] PLSCS 18], Mr and Mrs Burgess employed their friend and former neighbour, Mrs Lejonvarn, to assist with an extensive landscaping project in their garden. They did not enter into a contract however and, when they were left unhappy with the quality and progress of the work, claimed damages of £265,000.


The court, supported by the Court of Appeal, found that the architect owed a duty of care that arose on the basis of an assumption of responsibility. Mrs Lejonvarn offered her skills knowing that Mr and Mrs Burgess would expect and need a quality service. She did not have to provide the services, but to the extent that she did, she owed a duty to exercise reasonable skill and care in the provision of them.

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To answer the op, I suggest asking for a verbal survey meaning that you walk around the property with your neighbour telling you what's wrong with the property and answering any questions about the structure, etc. Generally lower cost than in writing and arguably better value for money.

I don't do structural surveys myself - and haven't done since long ago when I did one for an ex-girlfriend's friend and in my report forgot to check the drains. After her friend bought the property, a problem arose with one of the drains which cost them a lot of money to get repaired. When I bought where I live now I got a local chartered surveyor to do a verbal survey. As we walked around, he mentioned that more people should ask for verbal surveys so I suggested to the seller that if they wanted a structural survey on the place they were buying they should ask him as likely he would suggest a verbal at much lower cost.

[dubre]

The last time I had a house survey done his report brought about a price reduction of 29%. This for a substantially fault free property.