Empty house insurance

[melonfool]

Hi all

Happy Christmas

Does anyone have any suggestions for an insurer that insures empty homes? My (deceased) mum's insurance finishes on 30th and her insurer (LV) said they don't insure empty houses. They pointed me to Gallagher but they seem quite specialist so I wanted to look at some others for comparison.

Many thanks

Mel

[bungeejumper]

That's odd, empty homes happen all the time. Often there's a requirement that the property should be kept inspected (a personal visit once a week has generally sufficed for us). But if things really have changed, consult an insurance broker.

BJ

[simoan]

Hi all

Happy Christmas

Does anyone have any suggestions for an insurer that insures empty homes? My (deceased) mum's insurance finishes on 30th and her insurer (LV) said they don't insure empty houses. They pointed me to Gallagher but they seem quite specialist so I wanted to look at some others for comparison.

Many thanks

Mel

We had a similar situation recently. We used a small broker called Home Protect who were very good. The policy is underwritten by AXA, Some other quotes we got were hideously expensive. See https://www.homeprotect.co.uk/

All the best, Si

[bungeejumper]

Forgot to say: New locks, smoke alarm batteries, possibly water turned off, somebody to pickup the mail from the doorstep, will all help to reassure an insurer. Lock quality requirements are going up these days, and you may find yourself needing a mortice or two. (Basically, a rim lock on its own doesn't cut it any more. )

Also forgot to say: So sorry about your loss, Mel.

BJ

[csearle]

My mum used Town and Country, who insured the empty bungalow (at a slightly higher premium) after she went to her care home. C.

[melonfool]

That's odd, empty homes happen all the time. Often there's a requirement that the property should be kept inspected (a personal visit once a week has generally sufficed for us). But if things really have changed, consult an insurance broker.

BJ

I think it's probably not quite as simple as being left empty - it currently doesn't have an owner, it's part of the estate and I am executor, but no living actual owner. LV simply said they don't cover that situation. I'm a bit allergic to brokers really.

I'll try some of the others mentioned, thank you.

I don't think I can do anything about locks, it's an extremely old (annoying) house and I live three hours away. The windows do have locks. I tried to get the mail redirected but for some reason it didn't work,. But you can't see the mail from any windows or doors anyway actually which is useful.

Thank you all

Mel

[Mike4]

'Insure' against what risks?

I can't imagine insurers declining to insure an empty house against earthquakes or subsidence, but against scrotes breaking in and stealing all the furniture, hifi, jewellery and the lawnmower, maybe less so.

[elkay]

Was in similar situation with LV, and I also moved it to Home Protect, who already insured my unoccupied house that is up for sale.

You do need to check conditions associated with the policy. From memory, I think it required water shut off (which I did anyway prior to a cold spell), and regular checks (possibly monthly).

I only insured buildings - willing to take the risk with the items currently remaining in the property.

elkay

[melonfool]

'Insure' against what risks?

I can't imagine insurers declining to insure an empty house against earthquakes or subsidence, but against scrotes breaking in and stealing all the furniture, hifi, jewellery and the lawnmower, maybe less so.

Flood, fire, subsidence etc, yes.

LV *have* declined to insure it, hence my question. They suggested an alternative but they look expensive to me.

I might not bother with contents, as the next poster suggests.

Years ago a friend's uncle died and while waiting for the house sale they had a burst pipe and the house was a mess, they couldn't afford to deal with it and it greatly reduced the price they could sell for.

As executor part of my remit is to protect the assets I believe.

Mel

[bluedonkey]

A condition for the unoccupied house insurance we purchased was either drain the water system or leave the central heating on at 15C permanently.

A visit every 7 days was another condition.

[Mike4]

Hmm I can see their reluctance to insure against water leaks or fire. The damage in an unoccupied house will be must worse with no-one present to notice the problem and intervene.

On the odd occasion I recommission a repo, the lender in repossession will have turned the water off at the mains stopcock and had the tanks and heating system drained down to head off any water damage in the unoccupied property, and the electricity turned off to reduce the chance of a fire.

As a suggestion you could do both these things yourself (or employ trades to do it) to reduce the risk while it remains empty and uninsured.

[Dod101]

Hmm I can see their reluctance to insure against water leaks or fire. The damage in an unoccupied house will be must worse with no-one present to notice the problem and intervene.

On the odd occasion I recommission a repo, the lender in repossession will have turned the water off at the mains stopcock and had the tanks and heating system drained down to head off any water damage in the unoccupied property, and the electricity turned off to reduce the chance of a fire.

As a suggestion you could do both these things yourself (or employ trades to do it) to reduce the risk while it remains empty and uninsured.

At this time of year a very obvious thing to do is to turn off the water and drain the system whether it is insured or not. But I would also get it insured as soon as you can.

Dod

[Crazbe7]

Hi - Sorry for your loss. I was in a similar position a few years ago.

Unfortunately I can't find the relevant papers but in terms of insurance costs it was nearly double the 'standard' level of insurance. That delta has now probably increased. I had to visit once a month.

Against advice I kept the central heating system running overnight. As my mother passed away in January, I concluded the risk of a flood was minimal, nothing similar had happened in over 50 years, compared to the damage a long period of damp would cause. The central heating system was fairly modern. I was also the executor and sole beneficiary.

I was also fortunate the we had great neighbours who kept an eye of the property for me.

Crazbe7

[DrFfybes]

Hi Mel,

Sorry for your loss.

Firstly, is it a house or flat? If a flat then the Freeholder will have buildings insurance, so you only need to worry about contents. Personally I'd empty it and not bother.

If it is a house, then contact the insurer and inform them of the death. Generally they will allow a modification of the cover for a period of time with conditions. Again I'd not bother about contents, simply remove anything of value. That leaves building cover only, which is (or was 5 years ago) much easier to obtain. Water off at the stopcock and monthly visits were IIRC the only requirements. We left it part furnished (including whitegoods) as we were popping down for the odd night every few weeks.

Go on Google, and ignoring the top few sponsored sites there are literally dozens of companies offering Executors' Property Insurance or Probate House Insurance and loads of information and advice. Let's be honest, it isn't an unusual situation and so there are a number of people offering the service.

Paul

[Mike4]

Hi - Sorry for your loss. I was in a similar position a few years ago.

Unfortunately I can't find the relevant papers but in terms of insurance costs it was nearly double the 'standard' level of insurance. That delta has now probably increased. I had to visit once a month.

Against advice I kept the central heating system running overnight. As my mother passed away in January, I concluded the risk of a flood was minimal, nothing similar had happened in over 50 years, compared to the damage a long period of damp would cause. The central heating system was fairly modern. I was also the executor and sole beneficiary.

I was also fortunate the we had great neighbours who kept an eye of the property for me.

Crazbe7

The risks of flooding are, in my opinion, a float valve in a cistern failing (a commonplace event) and the overflow pipe being detached/damaged/too small to carry the flow (also commonplace), the boiler failing in sub-zero weather and a pipe freezing and bursting, heavy rain causing localised flooding, or a river bursting its banks.

The one people overlook the most is the possibility of the boiler packing up. Even just a power cut can render a modern boiler non-functional without a manual re-set. At worst, withdrawal of power can require a new control board in most Vaillant and certain Glow Worm boilers between about 20 and 10 years old.

Edit to add:
As usual I forgot to make the point I started the post intending to make! Which is, that it's far better to avoid the event being insured against than to just think 'Oh its insured, no need to worry'. If the event happens, the work of putting right all the damage (and making the claim) still falls to the policyholder and is still by far best avoided.

[melonfool]

Thank you all, it's more complex than I had expected.

To answer a few things:

It is a house, an extremely old and annoying house that gets very damp. It's not thatched, thank god, but it has a damp cellar.

I have no idea where the stopcock is, I'll add it to my list of Things I Need To Find Out. The very tame local plumber will know. I had been trying to get mum to have a surestop fitted but we never got around to it.

I think I need to leave the heating on, its costing me a fortune, more than my own in a house I actually live in, but hey ho.

I am prepared for the insurance to be really costly, it already is, more than three times mine. I'm getting a £500 refund for the part of the year that is unused, and that's 6m. My own insurance is under £300 a year!

I can't simply move anything valuable I'm afraid, I have nowhere to put it, I don't know what the other beneficiaries might want to take (and they don't reply to my emails, though the next email will have a 'tell me by this date or it's going to house clearance'), I want to leave the house looking 'livable' for marketing for sale, etc etc. There's nothing of huge value though I guess.

Re the flood risk - it's in a flood zone, on the outer edge of one. Admittedly not flooded in the 23 years mum and dad were here, but flooded in 1953 and maybe again since then. This is probably why the insurance is so high in the first place. It does take an extremely rare set of circumstances for the water to come to this part of the flood zone, but they obviously can happen.

I can't drain down the system as I will need to come to the house a lot to sort things out still, though I can't guarantee to be here every 7 days (I can guarantee that I won't in fact). But neighbours will tell me if anything happens that they notice externally, but they won't be going in. There is a cleaner who I can pay to keep an eye on things and come in once a week. She'd not been since mid-Nov and when I got here on 23rd Dec the shelf in the shower had detached itself from the wall, deposited all the bottles etc that were on it into the shower cubicle. Lucky nothing was glass so no breakages and the shelf itself did not shatter, but that's just the type of thing that could happen and lead to more problems I suppose.

I'll call a few today. And have a strong cup of tea while I do! The estate already owes me around £4k so I'm not looking forward to this! (and soon I'll have to pay the estimated inheritance tax, which I'll need a loan for).

Mel

[melonfool]

*it's far better to avoid the event being insured against than to just think 'Oh its insured, no need to worry'. If the event happens, the work of putting right all the damage (and making the claim) still falls to the policyholder and is still by far best avoided.*

Oh, you don't need to tell me, I am dealing with a leak that happened in my own house, under the ground floor, in July (discovered in July, probably been ongoing for 4 years or so), I still have no floors, the walls have been ripped to bits, no skirtings, I've had to pay £6,500 for an updated heating system, had months of dehumidifiers and (a slightly separate matter) have the patio doors removed and reseated.

I actually don't think I could have avoided this though because it's probably caused by the age of the pipes and general deterioration (oh, I think I posted about this before, years ago, not knowing what was dropping the boiler pressure, well, now I know!), but to prevent it in future I've had new pipework brought down from upstairs and chased into the walls, it's been masses of work and still no settlement in sight from the insurer, hence the work on the floor not being started (they don't cover the heating upgrade).

Mel

[melonfool]

In case the outcome is useful for anyone - I've done it. I used HomeProtect, they were fine if a bit annoying. Couldn't do it online as it kept asking me questions that didn't make sense (like 'what is the occupation of the home owner' - er, dead? No, apparently 'retired' is the correct answer) so I had to phone them.

They had to take my occupation (fine), then asked what organisation I work for (the government), then "does the organisation perform any of its business from the property" - I know they have set questions, but honestly! Yeah, Rishi Sunak uses the spare bedroom as an office every other Tuesday.

Anyway, it was £223 for the year, which was about a fifth of what I expected it to be.

Surprisingly TV Licensing have been the easiest to deal with so far. The Coop bank has been sadly lacking and taken ages to not deal with anything and I need their info for the probate application.

Right, next problem on my list.....

Mel

(edited to add - they didn't impose any conditions like turning off water or having someone there at any time, but we did a long debate about what type of locks the house has, the lock on the front door is about 300 years old, the key is 6" long, so no, it doesn't have a kite mark! We settled on 'other'.)

[DrFfybes]

They had to take my occupation (fine), then asked what organisation I work for (the government), then "does the organisation perform any of its business from the property" - I know they have set questions, but honestly! Yeah, Rishi Sunak uses the spare bedroom as an office every other Tuesday.

That did make me laugh. You need to keep a sense of humour when doing this stuff.

I think I need to leave the heating on, its costing me a fortune, more than my own in a house I actually live in, but hey ho.

Set the room sat low, well under 10C. Most of the time it won't come on, although it won't help the damp but leaving window vents open will.

I can't simply move anything valuable I'm afraid, I have nowhere to put it, I don't know what the other beneficiaries might want to take (and they don't reply to my emails, though the next email will have a 'tell me by this date or it's going to house clearance'), I want to leave the house looking 'livable' for marketing for sale, etc etc.

I can understand wanting to leave it looking habitable. However the lack of response from the other beneficiaries concerns me. It sounds like you are going to get no help with this, and end up sorting everything yourself, except perhaps for one day where the siblings might pop down and help jetwash the patio or clear out 2 of the garage cupboards, before returning home with all the nice ornaments and not contacting you again until Probate is granted (DAMHIK - IJK - OK?).

I'll say this - there is IHT to pay, and 2 (?) other beneficiaries. So basically whatever you do to help the estate means you only see 20% of the benefit (depending upon the Will). You should bear this in mind before spending several hours or days on a task that is going to benefit the others (including HMRC) more than it does you. Also keep detailed records of expenses, if nobody else wants to help then you certainly shouldn't be out of pocket as well.

Paul

[melonfool]

Oh, I have a very detailed list of expenses, including travel costs to get to the house.

There are 7 other beneficiaries. I get 33.33% of the estate, so by far the most single bequest, others get 14%, 13% and 4x10%. And one gets a set gift of £xxx, that one is the joint executor and she is doing nothing which I prefer and don't blame her for, it's a lot of work for what is actually a small amount (though I am going to give her more from my settlement, but she doesn't know that). I do say to anyone who asks that we get a 40% discount on anything we spend now!

No-one will pop by, they are all a min of 3 hours away, one is a 7 hours drive (plus an hour for changing the car....).

Windows don't have vents, it's a very old property, no double glazing, sash windows with that weird internal frame secondary glazing stuff. I'm going to have to set the heating higher than 10deg, probably 16 to ward off damp.

I've taken photos of nearly everything and put it all in a folder on a cloud server that everyone can access plus a spreadsheet of items per room for them to note anything they want to take. There's really nothing of value and no 'best' ornaments. Much as they may have been my parents' precious belongings, it's nearly all a load of tat! There is one thing I am going to send to a museum as it is an actual artifact and there's no way we should ever have had it. There are a couple of things I want for sentimental reasons and I have emailed and told people what they are and noone has objected. I don't now care if anyone takes anything else (even the five antique bottles of whisky worth over £100 each). I might auction the 1966 world cup programme signed by Edward Heath though.

Once the personal stuff is sorted and the house on the market, I'll be getting house clearance in for the rest. I have no qualms about that (my sister keeps saying 'when you come to sell x, y or z', I'm just ignoring her). The purchasers might want certain things that really do match the house, layout, style, size etc.

Mel