The Lemon Fool

I am a committee member for a small charity that puts on conferences and lectures. We don't pay speakers but we send them a token amount to thank them afterwards. It used to be a UK book token when all lectures were in person and almost all speakers were UK based. However, since Covid our lectures and conferences are all online and we are using more international speakers.

I have been sending money using online banking which is fine for UK speakers, but a pain and expensive for international payments. Our bank charges us steeply for these token payments.

DAK how I can send money or a voucher that can be used internationally at little or no extra cost to us? Primarily EU, USA, but could be elsewhere.

Thanks
Clariman

If you're sending money in your own name (and then getting re-imbursed), I'd suggest setting up a Wise account. You may be able to set-up a business a/c but I suspect it costs more and has more hoops to jump through.

While there is a charge for converting GBP into EUR (and USD), I know that when I use it to transfer money to my Spanish bank account (which has an ES IBAN), I don't get charged as from their perspective it is coming from Wise (which has a BE IBAN IIRC).

The fees by comparison to those charged by banks are significantly lower (I seem to think I was charged either 18 or 26 Euros for a receipt into my ES bank account direct from a GB account - and that's just the fee, nothing to do with the exchange rate which was also worse than Wise).

I can't comment on the US side of things as have never had cause to use it but would suggest it is still likely cheaper.

An alternative to money could be something like an Amazon gift token as that likely could be used by all likely recipients within either the Euro area or the US.

Maybe have a look at Wise.com for sending money overseas.

torata

the0ni0nking wrote:If you're sending money in your own name (and then getting re-imbursed), I'd suggest setting up a Wise account. You may be able to set-up a business a/c but I suspect it costs more and has more hoops to jump through.

I could maybe do it and get reimbursed. What info do I need about the recipient? Is it email address or full banking details (i.e. what our main bank account needs)?

I've just had a look at what is required on Wise (as I have only sent money to myself or my solicitor which in both cases I knew the full IBAN).

You are asked to enter their email address and then click a tick box as to whether you know their bank details. If you untick this box (i.e. you don't know their bank details), apparently Wise send an email to the recipient to request their bank details once you have paid for the transfer. If they don't respond, the money is refunded to you. (Not sure how many days they get to do this). If you don't untick this box you need to enter the full name of the account holder and the associated IBAN.

You also get to select the recipients preferred language in terms of Wise sending them an email - if that were to matter.

Clariman wrote:DAK how I can send money or a voucher that can be used internationally at little or no extra cost to us? Primarily EU, USA, but could be elsewhere.

Thanks
Clariman

I very much hesitate to suggest this, but you might want to consider bitcoin and lightning.
Lightning is cheap. My last transaction cost 19 sats or less than 1p.

It very much depends upon your charity and the speakers that you use as to how acceptable this would be. You would need to research that.

Concerns that come to mind are accounting for it and public perception.

Before someone claims that you can't spend it, you can't spend $'s here either. There is going to be some currency translation whatever is done.

Companies like Bitrefill exist to translate bitcoin to giftcards.
https://www.bitrefill.com/gb/en/

If one bought an amazon gift token/voucher thing in a UK account - can that voucher details then be sent to eg a US person to "pay in" to their amazon account ?

and if so how terrible is the exchange rate?

bit of a rhetorical question I suspect!

didds wrote:If one bought an amazon gift token/voucher thing in a UK account - can that voucher details then be sent to eg a US person to "pay in" to their amazon account ?

and if so how terrible is the exchange rate?

bit of a rhetorical question I suspect!

I'm not sure but the Amazon website says that you vouchers have to be bought on the appropriate Amazon website for the recipients country.

Clariman wrote:

didds wrote:If one bought an amazon gift token/voucher thing in a UK account - can that voucher details then be sent to eg a US person to "pay in" to their amazon account ?

and if so how terrible is the exchange rate?

bit of a rhetorical question I suspect!

I'm not sure but the Amazon website says that you vouchers have to be bought on the appropriate Amazon website for the recipients country.

That's true.
But different Amazons also ship globally (but not their entire range)
- I regularly get gift balances on Amazon US for survey rewards and variously use others for purchases
The only complaint would be that "prime" is per domain

I use a 'near perfect exchange rate' credit card such as Halifax's Clarity card to purchase online an electronic gift card from a suitable store.

For example I use Dymocks for book, Bunnings for home stuff and Myers as a general department store for Australia and get the 'gift voucher' sent to the recipients e-mail address. Safer than having them post a physical card.

A bit of homework to find a suitable supplier in whatever country your recepient resides in. Also checking that the store of choice has a branch near the recipient's location or is valid for them to make an online purchase.

You could also consider prepaid gift credit cards?

https://www.mastercard.co.uk/en-gb/personal/find-a-card/prepaid-gift-mastercard.html

I'm not sure if they have an online only equivalent; but they can be used anywhere

I've never used it but isn't sending smaller amounts of money between people anywhere and everywhere the sort of thing that's a primary feature of PayPal?

Although I think the Amazon gift card sounds like a good way to go; the only overhead costs will (I think) be whatever your credit card charges for the other-currency transaction.

I've used PayPal and Wise - both worked well. C.

PayPal has low fees but poor exchange rates. It’s ok for fairly small amounts. Up to £50 say. Poor for higher amounts.

For anything more than that, use an online broker as recommended earlier in the thread. Well worth the trouble if you are making regular overseas payments.

Gryff

Thanks everyone for some great suggestions. What a wealth of knowledge and experience is here.

I have set up a Wise account and sent some money to someone abroad. It all seemed pretty straightforward. If the recipient is happy with it from their side, then I'll probably stick with that route.

Some thoughts on other suggestions:

Gift Mastercard - I like that idea and may look into it but I'd be surprised if it wasn't more costly.

Amazon - country specific so not practical without setting up multiple Amazon accounts

Bitcoin - not for everyone

Paypal - is what I had hoped to use but no recipients so far use Paypal!

Buying Gift cards in country online using a no fee credit card. This would work but I'd need to research retailers for each country of recipients. Not impossible but a step I'd prefer not to have to do.

Thanks again

C

Strongly recommend you read the adverse reviews on Trustpilot ( sort by Most Recent) if you plan to use them regularly. [Also see news reports about the founder Klaarman's tax affairs.]

Wise is fine while it works but when something goes wrong it's a nightmare. Customer service is awful. Typically they will wait until you have transferred money to you and THEN state that there is further information they need from you and freeze your funds. It's absolutely maddening when it happens to you.

For the above reasons, and also because they are no cheaper than the alternative (I've been using XE.com) and much more expensive for small amounts, I have resolved to use Wise as infrequently as I possibly can.


My prior experiences with Wise are posted somewhere on this site.


GS

Clariman wrote:Amazon - country specific so not practical without setting up multiple Amazon accounts

No setting up needed. Simply go to the Amazon site of the country you want and sign in with your usual Amazon credentials. It looks like a new account as none of your (UK site) past orders or lists etc are there but you don't have to set up or register on each country's site, your login credentials are global.

(If you're not sure what a particular country's address is, roll the mouse over the Union Jack in the top line and click on Change country/region and then select the country you want and click on Go to website.)

Clariman wrote:Paypal - is what I had hoped to use but no recipients so far use Paypal!

Apparently they have a new international money transfer service that let's you "send money to bank accounts, cash pick-up locations, and more". I haven't checked out the costs. https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/send-money-abroad

I have family in Canada and the USA and send presents by logging in as usual, but on the
US or Canada website, choosing a gift and having it delivered to the recipient using my usual payment method. Much simpler, and no faff with packing and mailing - cheaper too!
So I can't see a problem with sending a gift card rather than a physical gift.

Tricia

GoSeigen wrote:Wise is fine while it works but when something goes wrong it's a nightmare. Customer service is awful. Typically they will wait until you have transferred money to you and THEN state that there is further information they need from you and freeze your funds. It's absolutely maddening when it happens to you.

Thanks for sharing this. We have frequently been asked on these boards how to transfer $250k+ from a house sale. I have always argued that for life changing sums like that you should ONLY use a High Street Bank. Because international transfers can always go wrong but a High Street Bank WILL fix it. Others argue for using online brokers (often overseas regulated) for such huge sums, because it will get you a few hundred pounds extra. I have always considered that whilst fx brokers are great for regular transfers of small-medium sums, the extra cost of the bank is reasonable insurance for a one-off life changing sum.

Gryff

gryffron wrote:

GoSeigen wrote:Wise is fine while it works but when something goes wrong it's a nightmare. Customer service is awful. Typically they will wait until you have transferred money to you and THEN state that there is further information they need from you and freeze your funds. It's absolutely maddening when it happens to you.

Thanks for sharing this. We have frequently been asked on these boards how to transfer $250k+ from a house sale. I have always argued that for life changing sums like that you should ONLY use a High Street Bank. Because international transfers can always go wrong but a High Street Bank WILL fix it. Others argue for using online brokers (often overseas regulated) for such huge sums, because it will get you a few hundred pounds extra. I have always considered that whilst fx brokers are great for regular transfers of small-medium sums, the extra cost of the bank is reasonable insurance for a one-off life changing sum.

Gryff

I was a regular user of Wise until one day they suddenly decided they needed more information about me and took days to resolve the situation having already accepted my payment and the contract to do the transfer. IIRC customer service consisted of automated messages. Very worrying few days.

To be fair, and unless banks have changed since I last looked, the difference in cost for a £250,000 transfer would be a few thousand pounds, not a few hundred. That's why I still use fx brokers, but I am very fussy as to how they treat me and I take the red flags quite seriously. But I think you're right that if there were a serious problems traditional banks would be more likely to fix the problem, albeit they might also take a while to do so.

GS