Grazing on common land

[GoSeigen]

DAK how grazing on common land is regulated in England. I expect there must be a concise summery somewhere but I also would imagine a lot is based on common law (pun unavoidable) so not codified. What is particularly pertinent to me is how obligations and liability are assigned, e.g. if I am grazing my animals on some common land and then they enter neighbouring private property and cause damage how is that sort of situation resolved? Is some blame allotted to the private landowner for not having secured his property with a fence or hedge for example? Or what if the animals leave the common land and wander through a town, presumably they can be impounded, but what law prevents the owner allowing his animals to stray off the common land? Alternatively I could imagine the commonage is the responsibility of a parish or council who are supposed to ensure (using fencing, gates etc) animals cannot escape from that area? Not likely but possible I suppose.

GS

[mc2fool]

A quick google found https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/26/notes, which is the plain English Explanatory Notes for the Commons Act 2006.

It's long and I don't know if it answers the OP questions, although given its length I'd expect that between it and the Act itself there's a fair chance it could. For non-specific general interest the Background and Summary sections are quite readable.

[bungeejumper]

Don't know whether it helps, but our local dairy farmer has insurance that covers third party damage caused by his cows if they should wander. I don't think it's expensive. But you'd be quite surprised at how much damage a pregnant cow can do to a lawn like ours if the ground's soft after heavy rain. Heavy things, cows. It's a good thing that most are marked with ID, or carry neck bands with RFID.

The relevant issue here would seem to be whether the owners/custodians of the common land have an automatic responsibility/liability, or whether it's regarded as just an act of god? In some parts of the country, I suspect, the latter would apply. (We didn't claim for our ravaged lawn.) In less remote areas, not.

Now, how can I stop one of our local eminences from letting his geese and his (very large) pig wander freely out onto the public road? Write to my local MP, perhaps? No, he is my local MP!

BJ

[tjh290633]

DAK how grazing on common land is regulated in England. I expect there must be a concise summery somewhere but I also would imagine a lot is based on common law (pun unavoidable) so not codified. What is particularly pertinent to me is how obligations and liability are assigned, e.g. if I am grazing my animals on some common land and then they enter neighbouring private property and cause damage how is that sort of situation resolved? Is some blame allotted to the private landowner for not having secured his property with a fence or hedge for example? Or what if the animals leave the common land and wander through a town, presumably they can be impounded, but what law prevents the owner allowing his animals to stray off the common land? Alternatively I could imagine the commonage is the responsibility of a parish or council who are supposed to ensure (using fencing, gates etc) animals cannot escape from that area? Not likely but possible I suppose.

GS

Having been brought up in the Forest of Dean, I know quite a bit about commoners' rights. If your sheep are grazing on common land, all well and good, but if they wander into town, or somebody's garden, then they are likely to be put "In Pound", and a fee will be demanded for their release. Traditionally the fee was £1.

TJH

[Mike4]

On a related note, how is liability determined when roads pass through common land being grazed?

Hungerford Common has a mile or two of busy B Class road through it and every summer, the common gets populated by about 150 cows with no road sense whatsoever. They routinely cluster on the road and wander around in front of the motorists trying to plot a path through them.

There are plenty of signs imploring people to drive slowly as apparently "Cows can damage your car" (rather than the other way around!) Last summer a speed limit of 30mph was applied to the road presumably due to cow/car collisions but if a vehicle hits a cow, I wonder if the farmer has a claim against the driver, or if it is the other way around.

[UncleEbenezer]

I wonder if the farmer has a claim against the driver, or if it is the other way around.

Potentially, both. It maximises lawyers' fees.

In practice, their respective insurers may be more likely to do a deal. That is, if the parties fail to cut their losses by keeping quiet in the first place.

[tjh290633]

On a related note, how is liability determined when roads pass through common land being grazed?

Hungerford Common has a mile or two of busy B Class road through it and every summer, the common gets populated by about 150 cows with no road sense whatsoever. They routinely cluster on the road and wander around in front of the motorists trying to plot a path through them.

There are plenty of signs imploring people to drive slowly as apparently "Cows can damage your car" (rather than the other way around!) Last summer a speed limit of 30mph was applied to the road presumably due to cow/car collisions but if a vehicle hits a cow, I wonder if the farmer has a claim against the driver, or if it is the other way around.

If a cow runs into you and damages your car, it's the cows fault.

If you run into a cow and injure or kill it's your fault.

TJH

[csearle]

If your sheep are grazing on common land, all well and good, but if they wander into town, or somebody's garden, then they are likely to be put "In Pound", and a fee will be demanded for their release.

Here in Tunbridge Wells we have an ancient pound. Don't think it is used anymore. C.

[csearle]

On a related note, how is liability determined when roads pass through common land being grazed?

Hungerford Common has a mile or two of busy B Class road through it and every summer, the common gets populated by about 150 cows with no road sense whatsoever. They routinely cluster on the road and wander around in front of the motorists trying to plot a path through them.

There are plenty of signs imploring people to drive slowly as apparently "Cows can damage your car" (rather than the other way around!) Last summer a speed limit of 30mph was applied to the road presumably due to cow/car collisions but if a vehicle hits a cow, I wonder if the farmer has a claim against the driver, or if it is the other way around.

If a cow runs into you and damages your car, it's the cows fault.

If you run into a cow and injure or kill it's your fault.

TJH

Probably affected by the jurisdiction in which you find yourself. I'm thinking India. Don't [expletive deleted] with the cows there! C.

[kltrader]

If your animals are grazing on common land in England, it's your job to make sure they don't cause trouble. If they end up damaging someone's property or strolling into town, you're the one on the hook for it.

[Mike4]

If your animals are grazing on common land in England, it's your job to make sure they don't cause trouble. If they end up damaging someone's property or strolling into town, you're the one on the hook for it.

Thank you.

I guess this is the answer I was casting round for. If a cow ignores The Green Cross Code and jumps out in front of my van unexpectedly, I won't be on the hook for the vet fees. I take extreme care not to as I have a fair bit of experience with them on that road and they really are alarming and unpredictable to drive through, but other motorists are more gung ho.

I guess I was a bit puzzled the farmer or cow owner grazes them at all on the common with no fences along the road. Its s if he is indemnified somehow. Maybe he has his own comprehensive insurance or a good lawyer as a mate as I think a cow must be worth a few bob to leave wandering about on a fast main road.

[gryffron]

My uncle used to have a house that bounded the common.

I don't know what the rules actually say. But our common has a "committee" run by the animal owners, who collectively look after maintenance and deal with insurance. Which suited the council as they didn't have to pay anything or deal with angry neighbours. Not sure if that type of organisation is legally required or even "common". But the right to graze on common land was (certainly in our case) controlled by the committee, which restricted numbers to avoid overgrazing. So I suspect the ancient "rights" of all the townsfolk to graze animals on common lands is in practice far more controlled these days.

Gryff

[bungeejumper]

But the right to graze on common land was (certainly in our case) controlled by the committee, which restricted numbers to avoid overgrazing. So I suspect the ancient "rights" of all the townsfolk to graze animals on common lands is in practice far more controlled these days.

Don't you have to be born in the parish, and ideally fourth-generation, to earn that entitlement?

Or, perhaps, somebody who's been given the freedom of the parish for some particularly notable act? (Our village recently awarded one of those to somebody who bought a field and opened it up to dog walkers.)

Either way, I would think that cattle or horses that caused damage would be easy to identify because they're marked/tagged/whatever. Sheep that eat the daffodils might be a different matter. And as for the deer.....

BJ

[Mike4]

Either way, I would think that cattle or horses that caused damage would be easy to identify because they're marked/tagged/whatever.

Even so, exchanging names and addresses with one after an accident might not be quite so straightforward as with a car.

[didds]

Probably affected by the jurisdiction in which you find yourself. I'm thinking India. Don't [expletive deleted] with the cows there! C.

my wife when younger (cough) travelled extensively in India. It was not uncommon for trains to be held up by a cow on the line.

the Hindus couldn't do anything about said cow.

So the Hindus would find some Muslims, who would then kick seven shades out of the cow until it moved and everybody could get on with their train journey!

[bungeejumper]

the Hindus couldn't do anything about said cow.

So the Hindus would find some Muslims, who would then kick seven shades out of the cow until it moved and everybody could get on with their train journey!

Great story, didds!

The owner of a B&B on the North York Moors told us of how one of his guests had encountered a roaming bull in the road at a cattle grid, whereupon she had rather naively tried to drive her car toward it in an effort to shift it. The said bull had then locked horns with her radiator and had pushed the car off the road into a ditch. At which point her problems were just beginning! (No mobile phones in those days. )

On a lesser level, we were once on the tour bus at Longleat safari park when our driver said we'd have to beat a retreat, because there was a sodding great white rhino blocking the exit gate, and he was showing no interest in giving way to anybody. Driver said that he was a known troublemaker, but that he was looking particularly evil that day. He tried flashing his lights, and then a toot on his horn, but after several minutes it was the rhino's own horn that decided the matter.

BJ

[gryffron]

But the right to graze on common land was (certainly in our case) controlled by the committee, which restricted numbers to avoid overgrazing. So I suspect the ancient "rights" of all the townsfolk to graze animals on common lands is in practice far more controlled these days.

Don't you have to be born in the parish, and ideally fourth-generation, to earn that entitlement?

I think it is entirely down to local arrangement and custom, rather than any national rules. I only know in my City’s case (large ancient common land with maybe 50 horses on it these days) it is controlled by the committee. You have to join their waiting list and contribute to the insurance.

For minor damages caused by their animals, like trampling the lawn or the flowerbeds, the committee would send a few volunteers round to fix the damage. Much better for everyone than years of expensive litigation. And no need to identify specific animals as the committee is a collective.

Gryff

[UncleEbenezer]

the Hindus couldn't do anything about said cow.

So the Hindus would find some Muslims, who would then kick seven shades out of the cow until it moved and everybody could get on with their train journey!

Great story, didds!

The owner of a B&B on the North York Moors told us of how one of his guests had encountered a roaming bull in the road at a cattle grid, whereupon she had rather naively tried to drive her car toward it in an effort to shift it. The said bull had then locked horns with her radiator and had pushed the car off the road into a ditch. At which point her problems were just beginning! (No mobile phones in those days. )

On a lesser level, we were once on the tour bus at Longleat safari park when our driver said we'd have to beat a retreat, because there was a sodding great white rhino blocking the exit gate, and he was showing no interest in giving way to anybody. Driver said that he was a known troublemaker, but that he was looking particularly evil that day. He tried flashing his lights, and then a toot on his horn, but after several minutes it was the rhino's own horn that decided the matter.

BJ

Try wild horses.

Around half a lifetime ago, I was in the mountains in Norway, heading for one of the highest peaks. I had been off-trail for a night and a strenuous day around the limit of my capabilities, and in the evening was heading back to a trail near the foot of the peak (for next day). So I was knackered and looking forward to putting the tent (and the feet) up, when I encountered the wild horses. They saw me before I saw them, and the alpha stallion had no intention of letting me walk my intended course across their area. So I had to do a dog-leg around them, and was even more knackered.

[bungeejumper]

So I was knackered and looking forward to putting the tent (and the feet) up, when I encountered the wild horses. They saw me before I saw them, and the alpha stallion had no intention of letting me walk my intended course across their area. So I had to do a dog-leg around them, and was even more knackered.

Oh yes, I had that stallion thing in a field with a public footpath, also half a lifetime ago. We heard the bogger coming at us before we saw him, but he was all testosteroned up for a fight, and intent on malicious damage.

We, on the other hand, had a picnic and two small children with us. We made it across the stile with seconds to spare, and the horse hit the barbed wire fence so hard that he must surely have scarred himself. Had to leave the picnic stuff abandoned in the field. The stuff of recurrent nightmares. My god, what might have happened.

BJ

[GoSeigen]

A quick google found https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/26/notes, which is the plain English Explanatory Notes for the Commons Act 2006.

It's long and I don't know if it answers the OP questions, although given its length I'd expect that between it and the Act itself there's a fair chance it could. For non-specific general interest the Background and Summary sections are quite readable.

Thank you, that was certainly informative. Though it didn't really cover those situations where things go wrong, it was a useful summary of the history and principles of commons management.

If your animals are grazing on common land in England, it's your job to make sure they don't cause trouble. If they end up damaging someone's property or strolling into town, you're the one on the hook for it.

I think most people might guess this is the case, the more difficult thing is to identify how that works in law: is there statue covering it, does it fall under common law, if so do you have a reference where this law is described; are there particularly notable cases which have established the key principles?

I'm not expecting anyone to do this research on my behalf but we have some very knowledgeable people here from a broad spectrum of backgrounds...

I don't know what the rules actually say. But our common has a "committee" run by the animal owners, who collectively look after maintenance and deal with insurance. Which suited the council as they didn't have to pay anything or deal with angry neighbours.

It sounds like the sort of council referred to in the notes that mc2fool linked to. They seem to have powers to set rules for the common they manage, but there must be some general rules long established in English law too.

Don't you have to be born in the parish, and ideally fourth-generation, to earn that entitlement?

Again, should be covered in mc2fool's link above (rights to graze on commons usually are attached to land occupied by that person IIUC).

The owner of a B&B on the North York Moors told us of how one of his guests had encountered a roaming bull in the road at a cattle grid, whereupon she had rather naively tried to drive her car toward it in an effort to shift it.

If you're going to do this you should aim for the rear of the animal as they seldom decide to move backwards!


Very entertaining thread BTW, thanks everyone...

GS