The Lemon Fool

The perils of modern life: Or, the increasing complexity of just paying for 'things'. Part XXIII

I recently had to attend a hospital appointment in the morning at 10.10am at a hospital several miles from my home, in London. It takes me two bus journey's to get there. I have a London Freedom Pass which now cannot be used before 9am, so I would need to pay for the first bus journey in some other way.

I couldn't pay using my credit card, as I have physically disabled it's Contactless RFID function. I still have my old, unregistered Oyster card and a contactless debit card.

So, first I take a trip down to my local tube station to check if there is any money still on the Oyster card. There isn't: "minus £1". So I could put money on my Oyster card for the journey next day? But not using my credit card because... I could though use my contactless debit card to put money on the Oyster travel card? OK, why bother? Why not simply use my contactless debit card directly on the bus when the time comes (also saves me £1!).

Come the day, I get on the bus, use my contactless debit card and... it doesn't work! Ho, hum. I just ignore the red light and carry on. I haven't, after all, now got any other way of paying for the bus so, what the hell? I later checked my card's bank account online and indeed no payment was taken.

Question is: Why did my perfectly valid contactless debit card not work?

I use the card all the time - via Chip & Pin - to log on to my online bank account and, less frequently these days, at an ATM to withdraw cash. But I never use it to purchase anything: either by Chip & Pin and certainly not using Contactless.

I don't use Contactless, but I understand the first time a contactless card is used it has to be used to purchase something using Chip & Pin, else its contactless function can not be used. OK, I have never done this, but I have repeatedly used it with Chip & Pin at an ATM and via my card reader - is this not adequate? Why not? Or is my contactless debit card simply dysfunctional?

TIA

Your car might be disfunctional, but pay terminals will usually indicate whether the transaction and the payment have gone trhough or not. Sometimes we tend to assume something has worked when it has worked all the previous times, and the failure goes unnoticed. Just pay more attention to the process next time.

I only use TfL busses once in a blue moon, and then I use contactless "tap" anyway so for my own information...

does this mean you can use a contactless debit card on a bus by some other method rather than "tapping" eg in a slot and give a pin ?

didds

didds wrote:I only use TfL busses once in a blue moon, and then I use contactless "tap" anyway so for my own information...

You can only use contactless - by one means or another - to pay on TfL buses.

didds wrote:does this mean you can use a contactless debit card on a bus by some other method rather than "tapping" eg in a slot and give a pin ?

No.

tacpot12 wrote:Your car might be disfunctional, but pay terminals will usually indicate whether the transaction and the payment have gone trhough or not. Sometimes we tend to assume something has worked when it has worked all the previous times, and the failure goes unnoticed. Just pay more attention to the process next time.

The only "next time" is likely to be, like all previous times, Chip & Pin in my card reader or at an ATM.

"next time" wrt a hospital appointment may require use of my old Oyster card with either a cash payment at a machine in a tube station or via payment by cash (or Chip & Pin with my CC) at a newsagent Pay Point. Or just replay my Walk on Regardless routine...

For some reason your continual mishaps with contactless cards remind me of this famous goal celebration:

https://www.businessinsider.com/balotel ... rt-2012-11

Lootman wrote:For some reason your continual mishaps with contactless cards remind me of this famous goal celebration:

https://www.businessinsider.com/balotel ... rt-2012-11

Ah now, that doesn't work! I have a long and interesting( ) story, from long ago, that illustrates this. But is off topic for this thread.

XFool wrote:

didds wrote:I only use TfL busses once in a blue moon, and then I use contactless "tap" anyway so for my own information...

You can only use contactless - by one means or another - to pay on TfL buses.

didds wrote:does this mean you can use a contactless debit card on a bus by some other method rather than "tapping" eg in a slot and give a pin ?

No.

ok... so how were you trying to pay with a contactless debit card ?

(I may have completely misunderstood something )

didds wrote:does this mean you can use a contactless debit card on a bus by some other method rather than "tapping" eg in a slot and give a pin ?

XFool wrote:No.

ok... so how were you trying to pay with a contactless debit card ?

Contactlessly...

didds wrote:(I may have completely misunderstood something )

It seems you may have.

Lootman wrote:For some reason your continual mishaps with contactless cards remind me of this famous goal celebration:

https://www.businessinsider.com/balotel ... rt-2012-11

Hmm - more Harry Worth

T7

terminal7 wrote:

Lootman wrote:For some reason your continual mishaps with contactless cards remind me of this famous goal celebration:

https://www.businessinsider.com/balotel ... rt-2012-11

Hmm - more Harry Worth

So, to enable my contactless debit card, I first have to raise both my legs off the ground at the same time while standing still? Or at least, appear to be doing so?

I always knew they were a silly idea...

XFool wrote:

tacpot12 wrote:Your car might be disfunctional, but pay terminals will usually indicate whether the transaction and the payment have gone trhough or not. Sometimes we tend to assume something has worked when it has worked all the previous times, and the failure goes unnoticed. Just pay more attention to the process next time.

The only "next time" is likely to be, like all previous times, Chip & Pin in my card reader or at an ATM.

"next time" wrt a hospital appointment may require use of my old Oyster card with either a cash payment at a machine in a tube station or via payment by cash (or Chip & Pin with my CC) at a newsagent Pay Point. Or just replay my Walk on Regardless routine...

If you register (or already have registered) your Oyster card with an online TfL account, you can top it up online - so no need for cash.

The obvious solution is get an Uber to take you there!

chas49 wrote:

XFool wrote:"next time" wrt a hospital appointment may require use of my old Oyster card with either a cash payment at a machine in a tube station or via payment by cash (or Chip & Pin with my CC) at a newsagent Pay Point. Or just replay my Walk on Regardless routine...

If you register (or already have registered) your Oyster card with an online TfL account, you can top it up online - so no need for cash.

Why would I want to go down that road again? Again, no need.

Meanwhile, my original question remains unanswered: "Why did my contactless debit card not work on a TfL bus?"

XFool wrote:

chas49 wrote:If you register (or already have registered) your Oyster card with an online TfL account, you can top it up online - so no need for cash.

Why would I want to go down that road again? Again, no need.

Meanwhile, my original question remains unanswered.

"Contactless" (RFID/NFC) is just the first (hardware) part of the process
Next comes the providers for tracking the transaction
- TfL claim to allow VISA, Mastercard, Maestro and AMEX to be used (if your card is not under one of these this will be the reason)

After that any given bank can decide its not going allow some transactions for whatever reason, based on the account and settings; (thresholds, balance, credit vs debit setting, not having been used via chip n pin beforehand, suspicious activity, location ....anything really )

I suspect here your card "worked", if it had not it would not have shown anything on the terminal (they don't react if you just put your hand there - unless you've got some embedded RFID chip), but the transaction was rejected
- if you want to know why you should probably ask your bank

-sd

Your card is scared of working in case you do to it what your did to your other one. Some make their own luck.

servodude wrote:if you want to know why you should probably ask your bank

What a good idea. So I tried...

Another day, another technology getting in the way. Can't simply send a 'Message' anymore, have to interact online with 'Arty'.

So I quickly gave up on that one.

Meanwhile, I have found the answer!

"Nobody knows!"

I have a contactless credit card which has sometimes behaved a bit oddly on buses. Mostly it works as expected, but on the odd occasion I have found that whilst it appears to have worked the transaction never actually appears on my credit card statement. Once this has happened the card seems to get blacklisted, and I'm unable to use it on buses for a while. After a month or two it'll start working as normal again.

I confess I now have totally no idea WTF this is all about.

Stompa wrote:I have a contactless credit card which has sometimes behaved a bit oddly on buses. Mostly it works as expected, but on the odd occasion I have found that whilst it appears to have worked the transaction never actually appears on my credit card statement. Once this has happened the card seems to get blacklisted, and I'm unable to use it on buses for a while. After a month or two it'll start working as normal again.

Thanks for that. So it could just be one of those things? Though in my case it definitely didn't work - red light on bus card reader.

Think I'll let sleeping dogs lie with the debit card. After all, I never normally use it for payments, I always use my credit card for that. If/when this bus issue crops up again I'll rely on my old Oyster card.