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Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 12th, 2018, 3:47 pm
by JessUK98
ap8889 wrote:
JessUK98 wrote:
Watis wrote:I detect a grand assumption in the media that all recycling is always good. But there are energy and other costs associated with recycling that partially (or wholly - who knows?) cancel out the benefits of recycling some materials.


Therein lies the conundrum. The H&S guy that I used to work with said that recycling was pointless as to clean and reuse materials also costs money & resources so counters out any benefits. He was quite pessimistic in general though.

I think plastics are the worst. The amount of plastic bags and bottles you see littered about and stuck in trees is astounding (and the photos of the plastics in some parts of the ocean is shocking). I'm trying to cut down on the amount of plastics I buy, but it's very hard nowadays as literally everything perishable comes with some form of plastic. Even the cardboard juice cartons have a plastic lid! I think I'm also going to have to look into my poop bags. I buy what I thought were biodegradable poop bags, but then I read articles like these: https://www.rover.com/blog/truth-about- ... p-bags-in/ and http://www.dogster.com/doggie-style/dog ... een-review and I wonder if the bags I have *are* actually any better than your standard poop bags (at least the core in the roll is cardboard and not plastic...).



I guess my question would be what is the point of recycling anything, given the choices made already?

Why? The impact of the decision to own a pet is so heavy. The only possible excuse for owning a dog in my view is if it is a working dog or guide dog. If we are serious about reducing your waste, then pet ownership is one of the lifestyle choices that is incompatible with maintaining a healthy biosphere. A dog has a pretty heavy carbon footprint itself. Some claim a dog is equivalent to an SUV in terms of carbon emissions. I think that is an exaggeration, but they certainly have a heavy impact.

The best thing one could do for the environment would be to have no pets and thus no pet related consumption and also no pet related waste packaging.

So why fret over recycling when a pooch is a meat eating indulgence requiring the support of vast exploitative industrial agriculture for its continued existence?


Well I adopted my pet when she was 8, and I would never get a puppy, so I think I'm doing my part to recycle pets :lol:

As I'm sure you are well aware, humans do far more damage to the environment. I was watching a short clip with Sir David Attenborough and he said a lot of our environmental problems are caused by population growth, and that he can't think of a single problem that wouldn't be easier to solve if there were less people. Apparently the population of the world has tripled in less than his lifetime. That's insane. I suppose the argument to recycle or not is a moot point if population continues to grow so fast. There won't be anything left to try and save.

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 12th, 2018, 4:30 pm
by gryffron
Watis wrote:since plastic is ultimately made from oil, we should be doing whatever we can to minimise how much oil needs to used to make plastics while at the same time looking for alternatives - before the oil runs out.

They can be made from plant oils. But it wouldn't help much. The real problem is the huge amount of energy required to extract the pure chemicals from the oil. Even I was surprised to learn it takes more energy to produce a kg of plastic than a kg of steel.

Watis wrote:Surprised to hear that glass is so poor to recycle, at least in energy terms. The alternative would be to reuse bottles – as was common in my younger days – but I guess the costs of collection, washing and sterilising for reuse as food containers is very high.

I guess the issue is the choice we have these days. Rather than the 2 flavours of Corona mentioned by TJH, my local supermarket today has 2 complete aisles of fizzy drinks. First step would be to persuade all those producers to use the SAME bottles.

Gryff

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 12th, 2018, 6:21 pm
by Slarti
Watis wrote:Does anyone know why black plastic cannot be recycled?

Surely it can be used to make more black plastic things?

Although I do my bit to ensure as much of our waste is recycled, I can't help feeling that we're shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. It would be better if the stuff had never been made in the first place.

I detect a grand assumption in the media that all recycling is always good. But there are energy and other costs associated with recycling that partially (or wholly - who knows?) cancel out the benefits of recycling some materials.

I suspect that glass gives the best return over costs, followed by metals, then paper, and finally plastics.


When I used to work for plastic bag manufacturers, some 30 odd years ago, we used to regrind any coloured plastic to turn it into black sacks, though if we had high grade white or clear plastic we would turn it into white plastic bags.

Recycling plastic, glass, metals and paper not only uses less energy that creating from raw materials but with some products like paper and glass can actually give higher quality products.


I also agree that less packaging should be used, but that would require some regulations to be changed as, for example, organic fruit and veg has to be wrapped, or so I was informed at the previous place. Shrink wrapped, organic cucumber, anyone?

Slarti

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 12th, 2018, 6:41 pm
by UncleEbenezer
ap8889 wrote:Why? The impact of the decision to own a pet is so heavy.

A tiny fraction of the impact of a human. I hope you had the snip as soon as (or before) you reached that conclusion.

(And I suspect some of the figures bandied around are based on assumptions like getting in a car to take the dog walkies).

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 12th, 2018, 6:48 pm
by UncleEbenezer
tjh290633 wrote:Another use for glass cullet, if it is not suitable for remelting, is as an abrasive or for use in road surfaces.
TJH

For what it's worth, recycled plastic also has a role in road surfaces.

I have a few quid (crowdfunding punt) in a company working on that: http://www.macrebur.com/

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 13th, 2018, 8:55 am
by gryffron
UncleEbenezer wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:Another use for glass cullet, if it is not suitable for remelting, is as an abrasive or for use in road surfaces.

For what it's worth, recycled plastic also has a role in road surfaces.

The Victorians used coal ash as road surfacing. It drains well and is soft enough to not damage horses' hooves.

The slag scraped off the top of molten steel and glass is also crushed for roadstone. Anything that can survive in a vat of molten material has to be pretty hard wearing.

So it appears road surfacing has long been the goto use for all our otherwise unusable waste.

;)

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 13th, 2018, 1:14 pm
by redsturgeon
Moderator Message:
Interesting as it is, some of the posts here are getting off topic...the OP's question is above. Please open a new topic elsewhere if you what to argue the pros and cons of pet owning.

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 13th, 2018, 10:18 pm
by Wuzwine
Hi,

My local council say they can't collect black plastic trays as the sensors can't read the type of plastic. I think the collectors are meant to leave black and other non acceptables in the box. All other tray colours are accepted.

You should therefore check your local councils web site for a definite answer, as they all seem to differ!

Wuz

Re: Recycling - tin cans or trays

Posted: January 15th, 2018, 10:36 am
by JessUK98
UPDATE - I have popped into a branch of Pets at Home whilst I was in the area. The multi-packs come in a big cardboard box with the trays in. The trays don't have their own individual cardboard sleeves. They are in plastic trays with a thin plastic cover on them (you know, the ones you have to peel off - can't think of the correct terminology to use!). I don't think you can recycle the cover, but the trays you can.
Think I might carry on with the tins. They didn't seem to have any in the store though, so looks like I'll have to continue with the order online and have them delivered route.