Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Booked MOT appointments...

Straight answers to factual questions
Forum rules
Direct questions and answers, this room is not for general discussion please
didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Booked MOT appointments...

#112476

Postby didds » January 22nd, 2018, 10:13 am

as we know, a vehicle without MOT can be driven to a booked MOT appointment.

A few days ago online I saw a post about a vehicle whose MOT had expired inadvertently. The owner needed to get from eg London to Aberdeen the next day.

One person suggested they book an MOT appointment in Aberdeen, then they could legally drive the vehicle from London to the MOT place, and get a cab/bus from there.

Is that really allowed?

Secondary question : If it is allowed, and the vehicle failed in Aberdeen, could the owner simply book an appointment near home and drive it back then?

didds

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3608
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112492

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2018, 10:46 am

Pretty sure both police and courts would take a dim view of that one. Although exactly how far you could push it is open to some debate. Would 50 miles to a regular garage be ok?

You certainly cannot drive ANYWHERE, even away from the test centre, after failing an MoT. It's an unroadworthy vehicle. The failure is immediately recorded on the DVLA computer and instantly available to PNC. https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/3506420 ... -is-valid/

(Years ago, it used to be the case that not ALL MoT fails were automatically "unroadworthy". e.g. A faulty headlight would still allow you to drive in daylight. But I doubt the modern computerised system is capable of such distinctions. Certainly the Sun article implies not)

Gryff

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112501

Postby bungeejumper » January 22nd, 2018, 11:12 am

gryffron wrote:(Years ago, it used to be the case that not ALL MoT fails were automatically "unroadworthy". e.g. A faulty headlight would still allow you to drive in daylight. But I doubt the modern computerised system is capable of such distinctions. Certainly the Sun article implies not)

Indeed. A bit of a mixed message here! Where's the logic in allowing owners up to a month in advance to get their MOTs done if they know that a fail for something minor will immediately override the validity of their remaining month's certificate?

Like Gryff, I remember how bad things like worn/leaky brakes or busted shocks or terminal rust would get you a "red ticket" fail, which meant that you couldn't use the car, no matter what. And rightly so. But cars also fail for stupid minor things, like their rear lights having faded from red to dark pink, or even (so I'm told) having empty windscreen washers, and it would seem crazy to ban them immediately from the roads. Surely that would just be a great big incentive to the public to leave everything until the last moment?

I think this is likely to be sloppy journalism from The Sun. But Gryff is absolutely right about how you can't drive the car down from Aberdeen. There's a discussion about this at https://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread. ... ance-to-go.

BJ

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112509

Postby swill453 » January 22nd, 2018, 11:35 am

gryffron wrote:You certainly cannot drive ANYWHERE, even away from the test centre, after failing an MoT.
...
Certainly the Sun article implies not

And that's your reference? :-)

How about this https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test
Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.


Scott.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3608
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112523

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2018, 12:00 pm

swill453 wrote:How about this https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test
Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

The Sun link was the first one that came up on a google search.

A car can have a valid MoT and still be "unroadworthy". The issue is whether failing the MoT AUTOMATICALLY makes it unroadworthy these days. All MoT results are instantly recorded on the DVLA database.

Can the database record a "failed but not unroadworthy"? Is that even a possible outcome of an MoT test any more? I don't know.

Gryff

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112528

Postby swill453 » January 22nd, 2018, 12:10 pm

gryffron wrote:The Sun link was the first one that came up on a google search.

A car can have a valid MoT and still be "unroadworthy". The issue is whether failing the MoT AUTOMATICALLY makes it unroadworthy these days. All MoT fails are instantly recorded on the DVLA database.

Can the database record a "failed but not unroadworthy"? I don't know.

You can't ever drive an unroadworthy car on the roads, MOTed or not.

If it fails its MOT test but the old one hasn't expired, you still have a valid MOT and are not committing the offence of driving without an MOT.

The Sun article is wrong.

Scott.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3608
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112532

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2018, 12:24 pm

swill453 wrote:You can't ever drive an unroadworthy car on the roads, MOTed or not.

Agreed.
swill453 wrote:If it fails its MOT test but the old one hasn't expired, you still have a valid MOT and are not committing the offence of driving without an MOT.
The Sun article is wrong.

But that is not what the article says.
It says "alerting your vehicle to the traffic police and it being potentially unfit to drive". So the issue is "roadworthiness", not "driving without an MoT".

Since the computerisation of MoTs, is it still possible to fail and still be roadworthy? I'm not sure.

Although the example I gave was headlights, the common one that caught old cars was emissions. Under the pre-computerisation regime a car that failed emissions was still considered roadworthy, not a safety issue, so you could take it away and get it decoked or retuned if the old MoT was still valid. Is that still the case? Or do the enviro-police now class failing emissions as unroadworthy?

Gryff - still in shock that I am defending The Sun

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112537

Postby swill453 » January 22nd, 2018, 12:31 pm

gryffron wrote:Gryff - still in shock that I am defending The Sun

OK, I have to admit I didn't read the Sun article in detail.

You used it as a "reference" for your statement that "You certainly cannot drive ANYWHERE, even away from the test centre, after failing an MoT."

That statement is wrong, as shown in my link to gov.uk earlier.

As to whether the legal definition of "roadworthiness" has changed recently - I doubt it, but don't have any proof to hand.

Scott.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3608
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112555

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2018, 1:07 pm

So I have just been doing some further research on a mechanics bulletin board

1) You definitely CAN fail an MoT and still be "roadworthy". Number plate font was one of the examples they gave.

2) The car shows on DVLA/PNC as "no MoT", immediately after a test failure, for ANY reason. EVEN if the failure is not safety critical, and EVEN if you still have an earlier valid certificate.
In this respect, the computer is wrong and misleading the police! But that still means you are highly likely to be stopped and the car inspected.

3) If your car is stopped and found to be unroadworthy, it can be seized, crushed, 3 points and a potential £2,500 fine to you. Regardless of whether you have an MoT, OR even if you are in the process of driving to a pre-booked test!

So it appears didds initial advice is correct. You could drive from London to Aberdeen and back within the letter of the law. Though you'd better leave plenty of time cos you're likely to be stopped in every county. :lol:

Gryff

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112562

Postby bungeejumper » January 22nd, 2018, 1:53 pm

It seems that not even Mr Loophole has an answer for everything. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/m ... man-159412 . No, I'm not sniggering. Honestly. :lol:

BJ

Breelander
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4179
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 1000 times
Been thanked: 1855 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112583

Postby Breelander » January 22nd, 2018, 2:54 pm

didds wrote:Secondary question : If it is allowed, and the vehicle failed in Aberdeen, could the owner simply book an appointment near home and drive it back then?


Leaving aside the 'Aberdeen' bit - last year I asked my local MoT test station what the situation was for a 'fail' under these circumstances. The answer was that provided the failure was not for something that rendered the vehicle unroadworthy, the 'booked MoT' allowed me to drive home after a fail (academic - it passed).

dionaeamuscipula
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1095
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:25 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112607

Postby dionaeamuscipula » January 22nd, 2018, 4:08 pm

gryffron wrote: Though you'd better leave plenty of time cos you're likely to be stopped in every county. :lol:

Gryff


Someone I know used to work in an office building that also included a DVLA office. They are generally useless and managed to miss their MOT date by several months. During this time it was parked in the DVLA shared car park every week day, sometimes more or less next to their camera car, with no problems at all.

DM

Jonetc15
Lemon Slice
Posts: 464
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:27 pm
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112634

Postby Jonetc15 » January 22nd, 2018, 7:15 pm

One further point to consider - insurance. Could be a major problem.

Jon

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3608
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#112674

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2018, 11:15 pm

Jonetc15 wrote:One further point to consider - insurance. Could be a major problem.

We've done this one before. Neither MoT nor condition of the vehicle can invalidate 3rd party insurance once issued. Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 148.

Gryff

Jonetc15
Lemon Slice
Posts: 464
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:27 pm
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#113011

Postby Jonetc15 » January 24th, 2018, 11:48 am

gryffron wrote:
Jonetc15 wrote:One further point to consider - insurance. Could be a major problem.

We've done this one before. Neither MoT nor condition of the vehicle can invalidate 3rd party insurance once issued. Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 148.

Gryff


Sorry - I didn't realise/take in the fact that this had been covered before. However it still sems to exclude comprehensive insurance, which I wouldn't want to risk over any great distance.

Jon

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#129493

Postby swill453 » April 2nd, 2018, 1:36 pm

I see this story is having another airing today for some reason http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fine.html

It contains the statement "Even though a certificate may run for another couple of months, if a vehicle does not pass the MOT - made tougher by the new rules - motorists will face a fine if caught because the vehicle is recorded as no longer road legal on a national database."

This is simply untrue under the current rules as described earlier in this thread: https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test "Driving a vehicle that’s failed - You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid."

Is this part of the law actually changing, or are the tabloids making it up again?

Scott.

Breelander
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4179
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 1000 times
Been thanked: 1855 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#129498

Postby Breelander » April 2nd, 2018, 1:50 pm

swill453 wrote:Is this part of the law actually changing, or are the tabloids making it up again?


I think it's hyped up to grab readers' attention. To be fair (even to the Daily wail, I'm in a charitable mood) they did say 'if you continue to use it' rather than the limited permission to drive it home or to a repair shop in the event of a 'fail'. AFAIK a dangerous defect has always meant you couldn't even do that.

The official list of May 20 changes is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mot- ... 0-may-2018

On a personal note (I have a '60s Classic) that link is the first one I've found that gives an answer I've not been able to find anywhere else...

Gov.UK wrote:When the rules change on 20 May 2018, vehicles won’t need an MOT from the 40th anniversary of when they were registered...
You won’t have to apply to stop getting an MOT for your vehicle.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#129513

Postby swill453 » April 2nd, 2018, 2:35 pm

Breelander wrote:To be fair (even to the Daily wail, I'm in a charitable mood) they did say 'if you continue to use it' rather than the limited permission to drive it home or to a repair shop in the event of a 'fail'.

But that's wrong too. There's no "limited permission".

If it's still roadworthy (and a failed MOT doesn't necessarily mean it isn't) then you can drive it as much as you like while the old MOT is still valid.

If you think otherwise then please provide a reference (non-tabloid :-) )

Scott.

Breelander
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4179
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 1000 times
Been thanked: 1855 times

Re: Booked MOT appointments...

#129519

Postby Breelander » April 2nd, 2018, 2:59 pm

swill453 wrote: There's no "limited permission"...

You're right, I was thinking of the limited permissions that apply once the MoT has expired.


Return to “Does anyone know?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests