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Prudential PLC (PRU)

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Alaric
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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#257902

Postby Alaric » October 14th, 2019, 10:33 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:Post demerger Pru will be far east only won't it?


Perhaps it would like to be, but it hasn't yet managed to get rid of its UK annuity business.

https://www.pru.co.uk/annuitytransfer/
https://www.ipe.com/countries/uk/high-c ... s-transfer

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#257915

Postby scrumpyjack » October 14th, 2019, 11:44 pm

As I understand it it has been reinsured with Rothesay but the court declined to approve the final transfer. So they are off the hook unless Rothesay becomes insolvent but have not managed to novate the policies

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#258189

Postby richfool » October 16th, 2019, 9:24 am

scrumpyjack wrote:Post demerger Pru will be far east only won't it? You can then sell the M&G holding which represents the UK bits.

Pru will I think then account in USD and, if they've any sense, move their domicile elsewhere to avoid the possibility of a Corbyn government confiscating 10%.

I will probably sell M&G post demerger even though that will trigger a CGT bill.

I have just had an email from my broker, which confirms that the entitlement to 1 M&G share will be in addition to keeping the existing PRU shares:

We are writing to advise that PRUDENTIAL GBP0.05 has recently announced a demerger of M&G Prudential into a separate London listed company to be named M&G Plc.

The result will be that for each share of PRUDENTIAL GBP0.05 held at 21st October 2019 you will receive 1 share in M&G Plc, to be held in addition to your existing Prudential shares.

I guess that may well be accompanied by a fall in the value of the PRU shares immediately after the event?

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#258200

Postby scrumpyjack » October 16th, 2019, 10:24 am

Yes, estimates I have seen put the likely market cap of M&G at about 7 billion. Pru has a mc of about 37 bn so the Pru share price would probably drop by 20% to reflect the demerger.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259259

Postby daveh » October 21st, 2019, 1:20 pm

Does any one have info on how to split the original purchase cost across the two shares (for capital gains tax purposes). I could use todays opening price for both to work the % split.


I think the open prices (using the 1 day charts on the LSE) was:

PRU 1316.5p and MNG 220p :- which gives a split of 85.68% into PRU and 14.32% into MNG. So that's what I plan to use to split the original costs between the two holdings for my records and for capital gains tax purposes.


(edited to add my calculations).

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259280

Postby daveh » October 21st, 2019, 3:23 pm

OK I've been and looked at the demerger circular which says:
1.1 Demerger Income Prudential has received clearance under section 1091 of the CTA 2010 confirming that the distribution of the entire issued share capital of M&G to the Shareholders will qualify as an “exempt distribution” within the meaning of section 1075 of the CTA 2010. As a result, a Shareholder who is resident in the UK for UK tax purposes should not incur any liability to tax on income in respect of the receipt of their M&G Shares. Chargeable gains Shareholders who are resident in the UK for UK tax purposes should not be treated, by virtue of the receipt of M&G Shares pursuant to the Demerger, as making a disposal or part disposal of their Prudential Shares for the purposes of the taxation of chargeable gains. The M&G Shares distributed to Shareholders pursuant to the Demerger should be treated as the same asset, and as having been acquired at the same time, as the Prudential Shares already held by Shareholders. The aggregate base cost of the Prudential Shares and M&G Shares immediately after the Demerger should be the same as the base cost of the Prudential Shares immediately before the Demerger. Such base cost should be apportioned between the Prudential Shares and the M&G Shares by reference to their respective market values on the first day on which the market values or prices are quoted or published for such shares.



So looks like my planned treatment for tax purposes is correct.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259306

Postby scrumpyjack » October 21st, 2019, 5:28 pm

daveh wrote:Does any one have info on how to split the original purchase cost across the two shares (for capital gains tax purposes). I could use todays opening price for both to work the % split.


I think the open prices (using the 1 day charts on the LSE) was:

PRU 1316.5p and MNG 220p :- which gives a split of 85.68% into PRU and 14.32% into MNG. So that's what I plan to use to split the original costs between the two holdings for my records and for capital gains tax purposes.


(edited to add my calculations).


I thought usually it is the closing prices on the first day of trading that should be used to apportion cost. HL show that as 1371p and 217.55p. Doubt if HMRC will be too bothered though

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259318

Postby richfool » October 21st, 2019, 6:14 pm

Well I have kept my PRU shares, but sold my MNG shares. I wanted to maintain the exposure to the far east, but reduce my exposure to UK asset managers. I was already overweight UK asset managers.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259329

Postby PinkDalek » October 21st, 2019, 7:05 pm

daveh wrote:So looks like my planned treatment for tax purposes is correct.


HS285 merely states For: listed shares you value the different classes of share on the first day when values are listed for the shares in the reorganisation although I imagine the HMRC CGT Manual might go into further detail (which it appear to in the second link below and includes on any day the Stock Exchange is open, the lower of the two prices shown in the Stock Exchange Daily Official List for that day as the closing price for the shares, securities or strips on that day plus one-half of the difference between those two figures).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/share-reorganisations-company-takeovers-and-capital-gains-tax-hs285-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs285-share-reorganisations-company-takeovers-and-capital-gains-tax-2019

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/shares-and-assets-valuation-manual/svm107080

Come what may, the eventually agreed percentage splits for the relevant holdings will be published in due course. Some would show it in the Investor Relations part of the company website but, for others, one might have to wait for the next set of published financial statements. It may even end up here https://www.prudentialplc.com/investors/shareholder-information/demerger-transaction-documents and/or here https://global.mandg.com/investors/shareholder-information.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#259702

Postby scrumpyjack » October 23rd, 2019, 5:28 pm

The apportionment of cost has now been published on the Pru website
https://www.prudentialplc.com/~/media/F ... olders.pdf

As I thought it is based on the closing prices on the first day, which were 13.66 and 2.18 so your cost is split

Pru 0.862374
M&G 0.137626

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#289781

Postby daveh » March 11th, 2020, 9:20 am

Full year results

Can be found here:
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 30076896F/
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 30056894F/
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 30036895F/


Possible IPO of a minority of Jackson

https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 30036927F/

Dividend info:
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 30036938F/

Prudential has today announced its 2019 second interim dividend of 25.97 US cents per ordinary share.




x-dividend date 26 March 2020 (UK, Hong Kong and Singapore)
Record date 27 March 2020 (UK, Hong Kong and Singapore)
Currency election window closes 23 April 2020 (UK and Hong Kong)
Dividend Re-investment Plan election window closes 23 April 2020 (UK)
Pound sterling and Hong Kong dollar amount per share declared
On or about 30 April 2020
Payment date 15 May 2020

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#289795

Postby barchid » March 11th, 2020, 10:48 am

A stupid question but do we know what the yield is likely to be in its new format ?

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#289817

Postby daveh » March 11th, 2020, 11:31 am

barchid wrote:A stupid question but do we know what the yield is likely to be in its new format ?



Not really (I haven't read the results announcements in detail yet to see if they say), but I'll make a guess. They have just announced a 2nd interim (aka final) of 25.97cents. So I'll assume the split is the usual 1/3 interim and 2/3 final so I'm going to take next years dividend to be 13cents + 26 cents to give a full year divi of ~39c or about 30p on a share price of 1089p today, so a yield of around 2.75%. Hopefully that is a conservative estimate as they will be delivering aprogressive dividend and it will increase next year, but who knows at the moment with Covid19 problens.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#289848

Postby barchid » March 11th, 2020, 12:51 pm

Dave
Appreciated. That looks a sensible analysis.
I looked on various sites first, not least of which, the FT which used to be very reliable, is currently showing 4.57%.
Others are broadly similar & appear to have made zero attempt to make adjustmentsfor the split. In fact I wonder if some have yet noted that the announcement is now made in cents, not pence !

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#289893

Postby richfool » March 11th, 2020, 4:23 pm


scrumpyjack
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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#332363

Postby scrumpyjack » August 11th, 2020, 10:19 am

I see from Prudential's results, they are cutting the dividend (sorry - new dividend policy), which means the yield will now be barely 1%, if I have understood it correctly. The annual dividend is to be rebased at about 16.1 cents, (the interim announced is 5.37 cents paid on 28/9 (xd 20/8))

https://www.prudentialplc.com/news/news ... 11-08-2020

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#332372

Postby yorkshirelad1 » August 11th, 2020, 10:52 am

scrumpyjack wrote:I see from Prudential's results, they are cutting the dividend (sorry - new dividend policy), which means the yield will now be barely 1%, if I have understood it correctly. The annual dividend is to be rebased at about 16.1 cents, (the interim announced is 5.37 cents paid on 28/9 (xd 20/8))

https://www.prudentialplc.com/news/news ... 11-08-2020


That's what I thought, but it takes a bit of working out the comparison, given the demerger of the M&G dividend and the move from pence per share to cents per share etc. The market seems to like the results though. At the time of writing (Tues 11 Aug, 11am) FTSE100 is up about 2% and Pru is up about 3%.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#340923

Postby daveh » September 17th, 2020, 1:23 pm

Sterling dividend rate:
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 00012948Z/

Shareholders holding shares on the UK register who have not elected to receive their dividend payment in US dollars will continue to receive the dividend payment in pounds sterling and their dividend will be converted from US dollars to pounds sterling at the rate of one US dollar to 0.7757 pounds sterling.

Accordingly, the amount of sterling payable in cash on 28 September 2020 will be: 4.17pence per ordinary share.

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#381474

Postby daveh » January 28th, 2021, 11:12 am

Demerger of Jackson Life announced:
https://www.investegate.co.uk/prudentia ... 34181925N/

Prudential plc - Update on separation of Jackson

Prudential announces plan to separate Jackson in Q2 2021 through demerger; Steven A Kandarian appointed Jackson Non-Executive Chair

· Proposed demerger would accelerate Jackson separation and complete Prudential's transformation to focus exclusively on its high-growth Asia and Africa businesses

· Former MetLife CEO Steven A Kandarian to serve as Non-Executive Chair of Jackson, effective 1 February 2021

· Jackson RBC ratio expected to be 425-450 per cent at point of separation following recapitalisation from debt raising

· Prudential considering equity raise of around $2.5-3 billion to increase financial flexibility and take advantage of Asia growth opportunities

· 2020 operating performance expected to be in line with current market expectations



I think the Jackson shares will be issued to existing PRU shareholders and will be listed on the NY Stock Exchange.
The Board of Prudential plc ("Prudential" or "the Group") has decided to pursue the separation of its US business, Jackson Financial Inc. ("Jackson"), from the Group in the second quarter of 2021 through a demerger, whereby shares in Jackson would be distributed to Prudential shareholders.

I can see a sale of PRU coming up in my Income Portfolio as I'm not sure I want the complexities of a New York listed share. I'll wait and see the details and if there is a dealing service where the JXN shares can be sold immediately (like Vodafone did with Verizon).

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Re: Prudential PLC (PRU)

#381484

Postby scrumpyjack » January 28th, 2021, 11:34 am

Shares down 9.5% ATM. The market had been expecting the Jackson demerger but obviously does not like the 'equity raising', which looks like it will not be a rights issue as they say they want to increase shareholdings in Asia / Far East.

Also they are keeping 19.9% of Jackson which they plan to sell over time. That must be a drag on the Jackson price?

May all be good if one can face staying with them, but short term I really do not like companies ignoring shareholder's pre-emption rights. There is no need for it in this case as it is not an emergency raising of cash.


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