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My kids A level choices

Family, children, advice, schooling, finance for children, all things kids.
TheMotorcycleBoy
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My kids A level choices

#390491

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 27th, 2021, 9:28 am

Hi folks

My youngest daughter (Ellie 15 yr old) has to choose her A levels sometime soon. Firstly I'm a scientist/engineer, secondly LE and I clash fairly frequently.....so there's always a chance that whatever I suggest/endorse she'll do the opposite, just to rebel. Besides I'm not sure whether she even should try to follow in my footsteps so to speak. Last week the school did "taster sessions" over MS Teams of the various A levels offered.

Anyway, I'm actually quite impressed with her current ideas. She thinks that in the future either working in the Police, CID, or as a lawyer might be good for her.

So her current ideas are:

1. Law, Criminology and Politics
or
2. Law, Criminology and Psychology

My question to you all is, in terms of flexibility and of being "strong subjects respected by potential employers", which of those two options do people think are the best. And why.

thanks Matt

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390501

Postby dspp » February 27th, 2021, 9:55 am

My daughter has some similar vocational desires and is a few years ahead of yours. She went with Psychology, History, and a Science. She now regrets not having done a second science in place of the history. I did very gently say that to her at the time, and she now wishes she had listened. But of course they make their own choices and it is their life, and I personally think that she is within the acceptable range.

My comment regarding your daughter's initial thoughts are that they seem very specialised. Given her vocational preferences imho the time to become somewhat specialised is I think at the next step, less so at A levels. Specialising too early, especially into the 'softer' subjects, closes down a lot of options prematurely and also speaks quite clearly to recruiters and not necessarily in a good way.

(To put this in context, although I am an engineer I have over the years done plenty of recruiting on the softer side of business, i.e. sales, marketing, finance, legal, and so have seen plenty of CVs along the way. And I know many lawyers over a wide range of fields - and many of them studied fairly formal logic-driven fields at A-level and at university. Degrees in, for example: chemistry, maths, physics, maths & philosopy off the top of my head, and with precisely the science-driven A-levels you would expect. A very old friend is a QC and he/she is science-based).

Make of this what you will.

regards, dspp

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390505

Postby Dod101 » February 27th, 2021, 10:10 am

They are having to make life career choices at 15? Amazing. In Scotland they do not do that until the beginning of their second year at Uni when they need to specialise. Uni degree courses are four years in Scotland but at A level equivalent they have the choice of what i suppose is Arts or Science type courses but that is as far as it goes.

Dod

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390532

Postby dealtn » February 27th, 2021, 11:28 am

Dod101 wrote:They are having to make life career choices at 15?


No they are making A-Level subject choices.

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390538

Postby baldchap » February 27th, 2021, 11:39 am

Daughter still at GCSE level, but I approached it from the other end.
We went through a list of university courses and I asked het to put them in 2 lists. Career and Hobby.
Discarding the latter list, I then suggested she choose a variety from the Career list that interested her, and then see what various University entry requirements were for those courses.

The aim was not to make her decide on a future at this young age, but to clearly indicate which subjects are valuable and which can be taken as padding or for fun.

The answer is fairly obvious in that STEM subjects will always be the most valuable/worthwhile, but I was hoping she would come to that conclusion herself.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: My kids A level choices

#390559

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » February 27th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Slightly off topic but hopefully of some value.

My daughters 13. She makes choices at the end of this school year for her GCSE's. She been reasonably set on joining the police for over a year now. She wants to apply to become a volunteer police cadet when she's 15. She's not going down the university route. I'm not a huge fan of running up a huge debt for an education unless there's a firm 20 year job offer at the other end and have advised her to consider all options. She will apply to join the police at 18. Learning whilst earning.

There's still time for her to change her mind and enter another career and I've also tried to advise her to keep her options open when selecting her subjects. However, I'm unable to convince myself that this is really of any great significance. She has a record of annual reports which show her commitment to her education. We've also tried to coach her on her softer skills. Being kind to others. Dignity and respect. She's very rounded and very well liked.

I wonder if the option currently open to your daughter isn't about the subject best suited to the career she would like to pursue but more about what she would enjoy and perhaps do a little better in.

AiY

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390609

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 27th, 2021, 1:44 pm

baldchap wrote:Daughter still at GCSE level, but I approached it from the other end.
We went through a list of university courses and I asked het to put them in 2 lists. Career and Hobby.
Discarding the latter list, I then suggested she choose a variety from the Career list that interested her, and then see what various University entry requirements were for those courses.

The aim was not to make her decide on a future at this young age, but to clearly indicate which subjects are valuable and which can be taken as padding or for fun.

The answer is fairly obvious in that STEM subjects will always be the most valuable/worthwhile, but I was hoping she would come to that conclusion herself.

I guess we are lucky in so far as KT (eldest 19 yr old), choose Bio, Chem and Maths for her A levels. Problem is she was quite lazy at time and it was be total fluke that her last 6th form year was covid year....and after the Govt made such a hash of the grading system, that a good Uni (Leicester) when suddenly faced with insufficient numbers dropped its entry criteria and let KT in onto Bio-medical Science.

Regards, STEM, yes my ALevels were Phy, Chem, Maths and Further Maths. I've done ok with them.....however I'd have thought money wise my youngest could do better than us all if for example, she does a Law Degree.

Anyway my question remains...re. Flexibility and strength whats the best for my kid,
Psychology or Politics, given what I said in the OP.

Matt

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390617

Postby Dod101 » February 27th, 2021, 1:52 pm

dealtn wrote:
Dod101 wrote:They are having to make life career choices at 15?


No they are making A-Level subject choices.


Yes but it seems from the thread in general that they are having to make choices at A level stage (or even GCSE?) for University entrance to particular courses. That is pretty well guiding towards a career from age 15 or so. That seems very early to have to restrict themselves like that.

Anyway I am not able to help in the least with the original question.

Dod

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390620

Postby dealtn » February 27th, 2021, 2:03 pm

Dod101 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Dod101 wrote:They are having to make life career choices at 15?


No they are making A-Level subject choices.


Yes but it seems from the thread in general that they are having to make choices at A level stage (or even GCSE?) for University entrance to particular courses. That is pretty well guiding towards a career from age 15 or so. That seems very early to have to restrict themselves like that.

Anyway I am not able to help in the least with the original question.

Dod


I think careers, particularly these days of "portfolio careers", are much less reliant on A-level, or degree choices, than ever before.

The last time I recruited someone (over 5 years ago, but likely to be even more relevant now), the wide variety of qualifications from candidates on offer showed career choices weren't particularly limited by course choices made at 15. Even if such choices due to over-specialisation did present some form of limitation that isn't a life changing problem. People can, and do, take additional different qualifications in different subjects, and undertake within employment training opportunities too.

The idea that a choice at 15 in some way condemns you to a limited path of career (and life) options is risible, to me at least.

I would be just as minded to ensure my two (15 and 17) chose coures they enjoyed and were interested in, more than what they thought they "should" do, or might financially reward them better. I would hope they would learn flexibility, and adaptability, as the teenage "them" will evolve and not necessarily reflect what will become the adult "them" later in their lives.

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390624

Postby swill453 » February 27th, 2021, 2:12 pm

Dod101 wrote:They are having to make life career choices at 15? Amazing. In Scotland they do not do that until the beginning of their second year at Uni when they need to specialise. Uni degree courses are four years in Scotland but at A level equivalent they have the choice of what i suppose is Arts or Science type courses but that is as far as it goes.

That wasn't true in my day (late 70s, early 80s). You definitely chose a specific degree course at year 1. Yes there were some limited changes possible after the first year (e.g. chemistry could probably transfer to biology) but in the main it was set e.g. law/medicine/architecture/politics/mathematics, if you wanted to transfer you'd have to repeat first year.

Scott.

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390633

Postby baldchap » February 27th, 2021, 2:40 pm

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:Anyway my question remains...re. Flexibility and strength whats the best for my kid,
Psychology or Politics, given what I said in the OP.

Matt

I don't think anyone wants to be pinned down to the extent of giving you a straight answer :D
I would however say that I would advise my offspring to avoid anything with politics in the title. Others may feel differently.

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390647

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 27th, 2021, 3:40 pm

dealtn wrote:I would hope they would learn flexibility, and adaptability, as the teenage "them" will evolve and not necessarily reflect what will become the adult "them" later in their lives.

I do think flexibility is fundamental. I want my kids to get the best they can educationally since I believe life (as far as buying the first home is concerned) is tougher and more competitive than when me and Mel were kids.

Mel didn't get "pushed" educationally, and as a result has no A levels or degree. Sure she's smart, but lack of qualifications (unless you have the guts to be an entrepreneur!) have pigeon-holed her into certain types (lower paid) of career. Regards housing, she is, in a way similar to her Mother, dependent on marrying. Yes, perhaps these are old fashioned views, but my two are both girls and my view is if they "marry rich" then fine, but I don't want them to forced into having to.

I would be just as minded to ensure my two (15 and 17) chose coures they enjoyed and were interested in, more than what they thought they "should" do, or might financially reward them better.

Our concern with this is sometimes that kids (I'm not suggesting your's will!) end up spending years in education, and then have zero money earning prospects. Mel's best mate, ended doing Art at University. Her resulting career: social care, essentially wiping up after people for the minimum wage.

So I think that whilst it's nigh on impossible for a 15 yr old to pick a career, I think it's beneficial for them to at least, realise that A level choices and grades will effect University/further educations choices and this will ultimately lead to job possibilities.

From my personal experience, many of the job specs I've interviewed for (and got) in the past, have stated "Red Brick University" preferred. I was a late developer. I didn't start my B'eng in Electrical/Electronic engineering until I was 22 yr old. Embarrassingly I imagined a career afterward mending TVs and VHS machines!! Fortunately Engineering was a broad degree, and my selection of some computer programming courses, assisted me in my final career.

Regards, Psychology vs Politics along with Law and Criminology, I was just curious as to whether Psychology was seen as a "soft subject", a bit like Sociology, and hence wondered as to it's value. That said, one could argue that Psychology is more "vocational" than Politics, since the former could be targetted to addressing society's workforce's mental needs, whereas the latter is more like a "Modern Day philosophical history". But with my background, how should I know?

Matt

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390667

Postby GrahamPlatt » February 27th, 2021, 4:35 pm

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:“I was just curious as to whether Psychology was seen as a "soft subject", a bit like Sociology”.

Oh, dear. Behind the times there. Nothing “soft” about Psychology. Bloody hard subject. Can I recommend you have a go at reading Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman (Nobel prize winner).

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390677

Postby Dod101 » February 27th, 2021, 5:13 pm

dealtn wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
No they are making A-Level subject choices.


Yes but it seems from the thread in general that they are having to make choices at A level stage (or even GCSE?) for University entrance to particular courses. That is pretty well guiding towards a career from age 15 or so. That seems very early to have to restrict themselves like that.

Anyway I am not able to help in the least with the original question.

Dod


I think careers, particularly these days of "portfolio careers", are much less reliant on A-level, or degree choices, than ever before.

The last time I recruited someone (over 5 years ago, but likely to be even more relevant now), the wide variety of qualifications from candidates on offer showed career choices weren't particularly limited by course choices made at 15. Even if such choices due to over-specialisation did present some form of limitation that isn't a life changing problem. People can, and do, take additional different qualifications in different subjects, and undertake within employment training opportunities too.

The idea that a choice at 15 in some way condemns you to a limited path of career (and life) options is risible, to me at least.

I would be just as minded to ensure my two (15 and 17) chose coures they enjoyed and were interested in, more than what they thought they "should" do, or might financially reward them better. I would hope they would learn flexibility, and adaptability, as the teenage "them" will evolve and not necessarily reflect what will become the adult "them" later in their lives.


Thanks. Yes I can see what you say and it is encouraging. When I used to recruit, a long time ago now, we would accept almost any good Uni degree on the basis that it probably taught the individual how to think and demonstrated an ability to get a good degree. I was thinking more along the lines that the OP was writing, which is as if the 15 year old was almost committing to a particular degree and thus a particular career especially in those that he was quoting which are not exactly 'general' degrees.

Dod

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390686

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 27th, 2021, 6:14 pm

GrahamPlatt wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:“I was just curious as to whether Psychology was seen as a "soft subject", a bit like Sociology”.

Oh, dear. Behind the times there. Nothing “soft” about Psychology. Bloody hard subject. Can I recommend you have a go at reading Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman (Nobel prize winner).

I've read about half of it. Yes, I see what you mean!

Matt

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390689

Postby JohnB » February 27th, 2021, 6:53 pm

The subjects seem too close together. Psychology seems more analytical than politics, and more relevant to the career goals. But both Law and Criminology? Better to have Law and some more traditional subject in case her enthusiasm for the path fades.

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390753

Postby SteMiS » February 28th, 2021, 12:00 am

You don't say whether your daughter plans to go to University but since she is considering being a 'lawyer' (although technically there are only barristers and solicitors) I presume she does. If so then the degree she's thinking of choosing is relevant.

To study Law at university you don't need to study it at A level (similarily, as it happens, with Economics).

https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/advice/a- ... -level-law

Generally one of the considerations in chosing A level is to do something you enjoy, since A levels are generally quite a step up from GCSE.

The other is whether particular university degrees require particular A levels. For that, this link is useful

https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/advice/a- ... el-choices

As far as I can tell Law, Politics and Psychology are acceptable A levels for university entrance. Criminology I've no idea as I've not seen it offered at A level (either in school my sons went to or the school my partner works at).

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390772

Postby servodude » February 28th, 2021, 5:01 am

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:“I was just curious as to whether Psychology was seen as a "soft subject", a bit like Sociology”.

Oh, dear. Behind the times there. Nothing “soft” about Psychology. Bloody hard subject. Can I recommend you have a go at reading Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman (Nobel prize winner).

I've read about half of it. Yes, I see what you mean!

Matt


I'll second this!

My elder daughter is taking psychology in her final year at high school and it has quite a bit of an overlap with biology; the syllabus (for her topic anyway) is much more in the science side of things than I would have expected. (She's aiming for biomedicine at present and history is her "soft" subject for a bit of variety)
Putting a "techie's" perspective on it, my youngest brother is a psychologist (academic lecturing & research) and his classes involve programming in Matlab and R - so there's the benefit of the additional transferrable skills involved with having to think in that manner.
That's not necessarily going to be the case with the A-level but I'm pretty sure you can find out what the course involves.

If it was down purely to the choice between that and politics for the year; psychology would seem to be offering a broader spectrum of learning given the other subjects already chosen.
So, I would recommend that as the "better" choice, unless she was utterly convinced that she would be unable to cope with it (or would do significantly better in politics) for the cases where it's simply an additional "grade" to make up marks.

I always try and encourage my pair to keep their options open and not rush things.... ...and not to drop maths just because they let you!

I'll probably be resurrecting this thread in a year when the younger one is wanting to do electives that weren't a thing "back in the day"

good luck
-sd

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Re: My kids A level choices

#390792

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 28th, 2021, 7:51 am

Thanks for all the replies,

TBH it's currently just a blessing that she's even choosing to go for A level courses at all. A few months ago she was all for coping out and taking an "easier" option at a local tech college. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Matt

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Re: My kids A level choices

#391224

Postby SteMiS » March 1st, 2021, 4:26 pm

SteMiS wrote:As far as I can tell Law, Politics and Psychology are acceptable A levels for university entrance. Criminology I've no idea as I've not seen it offered at A level (either in school my sons went to or the school my partner works at).

I asked someone I know who is a progression manager (careers, to you and I) in one of the largest schools in the region and their comment about Criminology was:-

"It's popular but not great for Russell Group universities, although mid ranking ones are happy with it. Probably one of the easiest "essay" social sciences you could do".


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