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Unashamed good news

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
servodude
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Re: Unashamed good news

#418817

Postby servodude » June 11th, 2021, 12:24 pm

Julian wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:Different tests have different requirements for swabbing. You have to follow the specific instructions for the test you are using.

Some require deep nasal swabbing others do not, some require only throat swabbing.

John

Thanks. Do you know if they deliberately avoid sending out any of the deep nasal swabbing variety for home testing? That would seem sensible for the reasons I mentioned and would explain the subsequent comments regarding instructions for far less invasive swabbing.

I still think a saliva-based test that ticked all the boxes for speed, accuracy, cost and availability would be a big step forward when it comes to testing though.

- Julian


Ahem.... https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/anal-swabs-coronavirus
:shock:
As you were.
-sd

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Re: Unashamed good news

#418840

Postby redsturgeon » June 11th, 2021, 1:45 pm

Julian wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:Different tests have different requirements for swabbing. You have to follow the specific instructions for the test you are using.

Some require deep nasal swabbing others do not, some require only throat swabbing.

John

Thanks. Do you know if they deliberately avoid sending out any of the deep nasal swabbing variety for home testing? That would seem sensible for the reasons I mentioned and would explain the subsequent comments regarding instructions for far less invasive swabbing.

I still think a saliva-based test that ticked all the boxes for speed, accuracy, cost and availability would be a big step forward when it comes to testing though.

- Julian


We use both types for PCR testing in the clinic and both are available for home testing.

John

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Re: Unashamed good news

#419039

Postby bungeejumper » June 12th, 2021, 1:04 pm

Julian wrote:Do you know if they deliberately avoid sending out any of the deep nasal swabbing variety for home testing? That would seem sensible for the reasons I mentioned and would explain the subsequent comments regarding instructions for far less invasive swabbing.

I had to do a home-test PCR a few weeks ago, before a hospital procedure, and it was the deep-nasal type. TBH, the instructions for the throat swab seemed to be less clear than for the nose - I don't believe I've ever been asked to examine my own tonsils before. Indeed, I hardly knew which bits they were.

No probs with the test itself. It was folding up the posting box afterwards that nearly beat me. :lol:

BJ

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421395

Postby Lootman » June 22nd, 2021, 1:44 pm

Another piece of good news is that the government is finally considering doing away with the requirement for 10 days self-quarantine after arriving from an amber country, for those who are fully vaccinated.

It has been a constant source of frustration to me that, since being fully vaccinated in February 2021, there has been almost no credit for that. In fact I was only asked to show my card once and that was not for a travel-related purpose.

This relief could come in July which would enable many holidays to still take place. The requirement for tests would still remain but can be posted to your home and then posted back to the lab.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421404

Postby zico » June 22nd, 2021, 2:44 pm

Lootman wrote:Another piece of good news is that the government is finally considering doing away with the requirement for 10 days self-quarantine after arriving from an amber country, for those who are fully vaccinated.

It has been a constant source of frustration to me that, since being fully vaccinated in February 2021, there has been almost no credit for that. In fact I was only asked to show my card once and that was not for a travel-related purpose.

This relief could come in July which would enable many holidays to still take place. The requirement for tests would still remain but can be posted to your home and then posted back to the lab.


Agree with you here. The government has been inexplicably reluctant to encourage vaccine take-up by providing incentives which would have a big difference. My wife had an exchange with her hairdresser a couple of months ago as follows.

Hairdresser "Oh I'm not having the jab, you don't know whether it's safe and I've read something bad on Facebook, and my friends agree"
Mrs Zico "Are you sure? You won't be able to have holidays abroad if you're not jabbed"
Hairdresser "Oh well, in that case I'll get jabbed".
180 degree change just like that if there's a personal benefit.

I also like the US approach where people getting jabbed are entered in a lottery to win a car or holiday. This will appeal to poorer and less well-educated people amongst whom the vac rates are lower.

Of course this change wouldn't affect family holidays with children - unless of course, the government plan is to allow children (who have the highest Delta infection rates) to mingle with others on a plane (without masks of course). That would surely be a stupid bridge too far even for our government.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421406

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 22nd, 2021, 2:50 pm

Lootman wrote: ... government is finally considering ...


Perhaps you want the "fool me once" thread (at least the start of it, before it degenerated too far)?

It would be incremental progress, for the benefit of the likes of you and me. But it would also be the most monstrous unfairness to discriminate against those who, purely by virtue of their youth, haven't had the opportunity to qualify. I expect they'll be sensitive to that.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421426

Postby Lootman » June 22nd, 2021, 5:00 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote: ... government is finally considering ...

Perhaps you want the "fool me once" thread (at least the start of it, before it degenerated too far)?

It would be incremental progress, for the benefit of the likes of you and me. But it would also be the most monstrous unfairness to discriminate against those who, purely by virtue of their youth, haven't had the opportunity to qualify. I expect they'll be sensitive to that.

Apparently vaccinations are now available down to age 18. I would assume that was a consideration in this review. So at that point it will really only be discrimination against those who elect to not be jabbed.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421432

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 22nd, 2021, 5:31 pm

Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote: ... government is finally considering ...

Perhaps you want the "fool me once" thread (at least the start of it, before it degenerated too far)?

It would be incremental progress, for the benefit of the likes of you and me. But it would also be the most monstrous unfairness to discriminate against those who, purely by virtue of their youth, haven't had the opportunity to qualify. I expect they'll be sensitive to that.

Apparently vaccinations are now available down to age 18. I would assume that was a consideration in this review. So at that point it will really only be discrimination against those who elect to not be jabbed.


Under-18s matter too.

And a young adult who has just recently made an appointment won't be fully double-jabbed for some time yet. If 80% of adults have had a first jab in six months, it'll take a while to get through those young folks even for a first jab. Especially if it's supply-constrained, as it wasn't when the AZN vaccine was in full play.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421442

Postby Lootman » June 22nd, 2021, 6:44 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Perhaps you want the "fool me once" thread (at least the start of it, before it degenerated too far)?

It would be incremental progress, for the benefit of the likes of you and me. But it would also be the most monstrous unfairness to discriminate against those who, purely by virtue of their youth, haven't had the opportunity to qualify. I expect they'll be sensitive to that.

Apparently vaccinations are now available down to age 18. I would assume that was a consideration in this review. So at that point it will really only be discrimination against those who elect to not be jabbed.

Under-18s matter too.

And a young adult who has just recently made an appointment won't be fully double-jabbed for some time yet. If 80% of adults have had a first jab in six months, it'll take a while to get through those young folks even for a first jab. Especially if it's supply-constrained, as it wasn't when the AZN vaccine was in full play.

But do we hold back on doing something that helps tens of millions of people just because some people do not yet benefit from it?

That seems needlessly ideological and petty.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421477

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 22nd, 2021, 10:48 pm

Lootman wrote:But do we hold back on doing something that helps tens of millions of people just because some people do not yet benefit from it?

That seems needlessly ideological and petty.

Indeedie.

But if they relax rules for us oldies but not for youngsters for reasons out of their control, I'd be among - I'm sure - huge numbers of us in full support of youngsters taking matters into their own hands.

I'd also be loath to give the youngsters such a very real grievance in the story of generational unfairness. If I survive to my dotage, they'll be the generation in charge.

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421481

Postby 88V8 » June 22nd, 2021, 11:11 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:But if they relax rules for us oldies but not for youngsters for reasons out of their control, I'd be among - I'm sure - huge numbers of us in full support of youngsters taking matters into their own hands.

By doing what?
Setting up their own airlines?
Standing on The White Cliffs flapping their arms?

V8

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421510

Postby redsturgeon » June 23rd, 2021, 8:32 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Perhaps you want the "fool me once" thread (at least the start of it, before it degenerated too far)?

It would be incremental progress, for the benefit of the likes of you and me. But it would also be the most monstrous unfairness to discriminate against those who, purely by virtue of their youth, haven't had the opportunity to qualify. I expect they'll be sensitive to that.

Apparently vaccinations are now available down to age 18. I would assume that was a consideration in this review. So at that point it will really only be discrimination against those who elect to not be jabbed.


Under-18s matter too.

And a young adult who has just recently made an appointment won't be fully double-jabbed for some time yet. If 80% of adults have had a first jab in six months, it'll take a while to get through those young folks even for a first jab. Especially if it's supply-constrained, as it wasn't when the AZN vaccine was in full play.


Yes indeed, my son who is 20 has gone on the website and found the first available slot for him is July 12th, if he is then offered a second in eight weeks it with be mid September by the time he is able to show a full vaccination passport.

John

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421514

Postby AleisterCrowley » June 23rd, 2021, 8:56 am

What's the situation with the Janssen single dose vaccine? Have we got any yet?

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421556

Postby Lootman » June 23rd, 2021, 10:58 am

redsturgeon wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:Apparently vaccinations are now available down to age 18. I would assume that was a consideration in this review. So at that point it will really only be discrimination against those who elect to not be jabbed.

Under-18s matter too.

And a young adult who has just recently made an appointment won't be fully double-jabbed for some time yet. If 80% of adults have had a first jab in six months, it'll take a while to get through those young folks even for a first jab. Especially if it's supply-constrained, as it wasn't when the AZN vaccine was in full play.

Yes indeed, my son who is 20 has gone on the website and found the first available slot for him is July 12th, if he is then offered a second in eight weeks it with be mid September by the time he is able to show a full vaccination passport.

The latest I read said that children 16 and younger can travel with fully vaccinated parents. Which just leaves a gap for kids aged 16-18. Not sure why that gap exists. Perhaps they think no kid over 16 would be seen dead going on holiday with their parents?

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Re: Unashamed good news

#421595

Postby Julian » June 23rd, 2021, 12:36 pm

Lootman wrote:Another piece of good news is that the government is finally considering doing away with the requirement for 10 days self-quarantine after arriving from an amber country, for those who are fully vaccinated.

It has been a constant source of frustration to me that, since being fully vaccinated in February 2021, there has been almost no credit for that. In fact I was only asked to show my card once and that was not for a travel-related purpose.

This relief could come in July which would enable many holidays to still take place. The requirement for tests would still remain but can be posted to your home and then posted back to the lab.

The chatter over the weekend was about not only removing quarantine restrictions after travel to amber countries for the fully vaccinated but also removing the requirement to self-isolate after coming into contact with an infected person. Understandably I suppose the media reports that I've seen in the last couple of days have concentrated on that, maybe because some minister hinted that the holiday bit at least was under serious consideration, but for me and maybe even for the wider UK society I am more excited about the latter.

I am now up to 1 NHS appointment and one other non-health appointment cancelled (that one I heard about yesterday) due to the (different) person I was supposed to be seeing having to self isolate after being contact traced. I've posted here before about my concerns that a third wave with another surge in case numbers would probably do severe damage to the NHS even in the absence of high numbers of hospitalisations and deaths. If, even with the current relatively low level of case numbers, we(*) are seeing this level of disruption think how much worse it could get if we were back to even half of the Dec/Jan peak. This rumoured change to quarantine protocols after being contact traced would pretty much remove that issue and allow NHS staff to avoid being snatched away into quarantine by a single phone call and instead stay at work to try and get down the already very long waiting lists.

Now if that second bit does happen then, particularly when it is an NHS front line worker being told "you've been in contact with an infected person but don't worry, you can still go into work today", I can understand why some people might be nervous but I do note that it isn't entirely letting people off the hook. As I understand it the proposals, for both travel returnees and people who have been contact traced, is essentially to replace physical quarantine with a kind of "chemical quarantine" (egregiously stretching the definition of the word quarantine in order to try and get to a pithy soundbite!) where the double-jabbed person needs to self-test every day for a certain number of days and if they test positive at any time they do then have to physically quarantine.

If the above happens it would be interesting to see the data that has informed that decision. I know that data is being collected about vaccine efficacy against even asymptomatic infection and also a clearer picture is I think beginning to emerge about the reduction in transmission for the double-vaccinated but I wonder if the thinking is now that, in addition to that, if someone is being tested daily then, depending on what test is used, on the day they first turn positive their viral load might be so low and the vaccine antibodies already going to work on that viral load such that they are unlikely to be a severe transmission risk for another day or so such that, if they are immediately told to isolate at that point, they never really become a transmission vector; the testing effectively quarantines them before they become infectious. If all that was true in terms of the data being solid then this would be a major quite safe step forwards towards normality and living with the virus and would definitely be another piece of "unashamed good news".

- Julian

(*) I say "We". I'm basing this on my own 2 personal anecdotes. Maybe I've just been very unlucky.


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