Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463140

Postby XFool » December 4th, 2021, 6:40 pm

kiloran wrote:I;m not sure if this will be included in the Belgian statistics

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59516896

Shouldn't they be wearing facemasks?

--kiloran

Well, I'm not going to try and make them. How about you?

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463142

Postby bungeejumper » December 4th, 2021, 6:45 pm

XFool wrote:Well, I'm not going to try and make them. How about you?

Not me either. But I think it's good that the zoo's hippothesis has been put to the test. ;)

BJ

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463147

Postby XFool » December 4th, 2021, 7:40 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
XFool wrote:Well, I'm not going to try and make them. How about you?

Not me either. But I think it's good that the zoo's hippothesis has been put to the test. ;)

Yes... But was it done in a properly controlled way? ;)

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463157

Postby Lootman » December 4th, 2021, 8:53 pm

swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Actually the UK was the odd one out here. For example the US requires you to show a negative test result prior to being allowed to board a plane heading there. Whereas up to now the UK lets you show up regardless of test status, and then requires a test within 2 days of arrival. By which time an infected person might have spread it about quite a lot.

And yes, you are potentially in a sticky situation if you cannot board your flight home. Just like Americans in the UK who cannot return home because their pre-flight test was negative.

To be fair this only takes us back to the situation a few months ago, where you needed a negative test result to board a plane to the UK. I think that went away around June/July or so. It was certainly in effect in May 2021 as I had to do it myself, plus 2 more tests after arrival and ten days self-quarantine! Things still aren't that bad.

Hopefully this will be lifted before the 2022 travel season.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3793 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463161

Postby Mike4 » December 4th, 2021, 9:14 pm

Back to normal again.

On the back foot playing catch-up.

88V8
Lemon Half
Posts: 5769
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:22 am
Has thanked: 4098 times
Been thanked: 2560 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463224

Postby 88V8 » December 5th, 2021, 11:08 am

Lootman wrote:Things still aren't that bad.

Or good, depending on your perspective :)

Not good for my Travel shares though...

V8

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3606
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 550 times
Been thanked: 1586 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463228

Postby gryffron » December 5th, 2021, 11:31 am

Julian wrote: right now I see some sections of the mainstream media running stories with a slant that leans the other way, i.e. “we’re all doomed”,

To be fair. The press have ALWAYS run "we're all doomed" headlines. They were certain it was impossible to travel faster than 25mph on a steam train or you wouldn't be able to breathe. That was 200 years ago!

Gryff

SteMiS
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2311
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 592 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463265

Postby SteMiS » December 5th, 2021, 1:31 pm

swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Scott.

Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463272

Postby Julian » December 5th, 2021, 1:48 pm

SteMiS wrote:
swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Scott.

Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

Are all lateral flow tests equal? Many of us are probably familiar with the pack-of-7 free(*) tests that one can order from the NHS or get from chemists for at-home testing but is there also the concept of a not-self-administered lateral flow test where the testing is done at some paid-for testing centre and the results confirmed by a signed form as opposed to the scan your QR code and upload the results method used by the free NHS tests? If a lateral flow test had to be test-centre administered that might finesse your very justifiable concern.

I haven't seen positive confirmation that lateral flow antigen tests work with Omicron. Is this policy implicit confirmation that they do I wonder. If so that is very good news that I wish would be explicitly reported in the mainstream media. [ John (redsturgeon) or anyone else - do you happen to know the latest on that? ]

- Julian

(*) Free for now. I think I did read a few rumours that this might get changed at some point in the not too far distant future.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463274

Postby Lootman » December 5th, 2021, 1:53 pm

SteMiS wrote:
swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

I would assume that the requirement is that the test is supervised i.e. either conducted by a third party or else self-administered via a video link.

Every test I have taken this year was like that, and I had to show ID both at the testing site and when checking into my flight, so that it is known that it is the flyer who took the test.

I also had to give my passport number, flight number and date of travel to the tester, so presumably the airline could be notified of a positive test result and disallow boarding.

Of course, there are a few assumptions there.

SteMiS
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2311
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 592 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463276

Postby SteMiS » December 5th, 2021, 2:01 pm

Julian wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Scott.

Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

Are all lateral flow tests equal? Many of us are probably familiar with the pack-of-7 free(*) tests that one can order from the NHS or get from chemists for at-home testing but is there also the concept of a not-self-administered lateral flow test where the testing is done at some paid-for testing centre and the results confirmed by a signed form as opposed to the scan your QR code and upload the results method used by the free NHS tests? If a lateral flow test had to be test-centre administered that might finesse your very justifiable concern.

I haven't seen positive confirmation that lateral flow antigen tests work with Omicron. Is this policy implicit confirmation that they do I wonder. If so that is very good news that I wish would be explicitly reported in the mainstream media. [ John (redsturgeon) or anyone else - do you happen to know the latest on that? ]

- Julian

(*) Free for now. I think I did read a few rumours that this might get changed at some point in the not too far distant future.

It's a good question but (as far as I am aware) all the government says is

In light of this emerging evidence and the changing global picture with regards to the spread of Omicron, from 4am on Tuesday, anyone wishing to travel to the UK from countries and territories not on the red list must also show proof of a negative PCR or lateral flow (LFD) pre-departure test, taken no earlier than 48 hours before departure. This applies to vaccinated passengers and children aged 12 and above.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/test ... o-red-list

Bearing in mind that these requirements come into force in just 38 hours, relating to flyers already abroad preparing to return home, it's probably going to be hard enough to get hold of a LF test, let alone find an 'authorised' (by who?) lab, in whatever country you happen to be in, that will do it. If there is some sort of specification of the LF test, how are travellers and indeed airlines supposed to know of them if there is nothing even in the government release?

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463279

Postby Julian » December 5th, 2021, 2:11 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Julian wrote:
SteMiS wrote:Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

Are all lateral flow tests equal? Many of us are probably familiar with the pack-of-7 free(*) tests that one can order from the NHS or get from chemists for at-home testing but is there also the concept of a not-self-administered lateral flow test where the testing is done at some paid-for testing centre and the results confirmed by a signed form as opposed to the scan your QR code and upload the results method used by the free NHS tests? If a lateral flow test had to be test-centre administered that might finesse your very justifiable concern.

I haven't seen positive confirmation that lateral flow antigen tests work with Omicron. Is this policy implicit confirmation that they do I wonder. If so that is very good news that I wish would be explicitly reported in the mainstream media. [ John (redsturgeon) or anyone else - do you happen to know the latest on that? ]

- Julian

(*) Free for now. I think I did read a few rumours that this might get changed at some point in the not too far distant future.

It's a good question but (as far as I am aware) all the government says is

In light of this emerging evidence and the changing global picture with regards to the spread of Omicron, from 4am on Tuesday, anyone wishing to travel to the UK from countries and territories not on the red list must also show proof of a negative PCR or lateral flow (LFD) pre-departure test, taken no earlier than 48 hours before departure. This applies to vaccinated passengers and children aged 12 and above.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/test ... o-red-list

Bearing in mind that these requirements come into force in just 38 hours, relating to flyers already abroad preparing to return home, it's probably going to be hard enough to get hold of a LF test, let alone find an 'authorised' (by who?) lab, in whatever country you happen to be in, that will do it. If there is some sort of specification of the LF test, how are travellers and indeed airlines supposed to know of them if there is nothing even in the government release?

Also a good point. What with this and all the go-ahead/be-cautious and snog/don't-snog confusion around Christmas gatherings this government really is showing a strong ability to sow confusion by failing to clarify details and/or putting out inconsistent messages.

- Julian

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463285

Postby Julian » December 5th, 2021, 2:25 pm

SteMiS wrote:... (as far as I am aware) all the government says is

In light of this emerging evidence and the changing global picture with regards to the spread of Omicron, from 4am on Tuesday, anyone wishing to travel to the UK from countries and territories not on the red list must also show proof of a negative PCR or lateral flow (LFD) pre-departure test, taken no earlier than 48 hours before departure. This applies to vaccinated passengers and children aged 12 and above.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/test ... o-red-list

Bearing in mind that these requirements come into force in just 38 hours, relating to flyers already abroad preparing to return home, it's probably going to be hard enough to get hold of a LF test, let alone find an 'authorised' (by who?) lab, in whatever country you happen to be in, that will do it. If there is some sort of specification of the LF test, how are travellers and indeed airlines supposed to know of them if there is nothing even in the government release?

As a follow-up anecdote to the above I have some friends who have a trip to France (Nice) booked for Christmas, booked before Omicron hit us. Their problem is that they have a 15 year old son who has been vaccinated in the UK under the one-jab-for-children policy and, even though children are now getting the second dose, he will not be eligible until January. The issue here is that in France you can't get into restaurants and other venues unless double jabbed or proof of a negative Covid-19 test within the last 24 hours! My friends did do some detailed investigations and for the French testing they did find test centres that would do supervised lateral flow tests at 50 Euros a time. On the basis that their poor son would have to get to a centre and do a test every single day, and the 700 Euro cost it would add to their 2 week trip, they were still discussing it but were getting close to the point of cancelling the trip. I suppose the point here is that I do have at least one existence proof of paid-for lateral flow testing centres.

Travel really does seem to be becoming an unappealing proposition again. If Omicron turns out to not be as threating as some are speculating right now I do hope that governments will roll back these new restrictions with the same speed as they put them in place.

- Julian

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463313

Postby Lootman » December 5th, 2021, 5:00 pm

SteMiS wrote:Bearing in mind that these requirements come into force in just 38 hours, relating to flyers already abroad preparing to return home, it's probably going to be hard enough to get hold of a LF test, let alone find an 'authorised' (by who?) lab, in whatever country you happen to be in, that will do it. If there is some sort of specification of the LF test, how are travellers and indeed airlines supposed to know of them if there is nothing even in the government release?

It does not have to be a LF test. It is just that they are cheaper than PCR tests. For instance a Day-2 arrivals test can be LF, which costs £35 at the Paddington ExpressTest centre, versus £80 for their PCR "fit to fly" test.

What drives the price more is how quickly you need the result. Some places will turn it around in 15-20 minutes but they can cost more than £100.

Of course here we are talking about tests in foreign locations, but I have not had a problem in my 3 trips overseas this year. All three foreign airports had walk-in test sites available, and major hotels and resorts offer testing as well, especially the ones that are in more remote locations.

It is getting to be a big business.

In my experience it is mostly administered and enforced by the airline at the departure airport. I believe the destination country fines any airline that brings in a passenger who doesn't have the correct documentation. Once on the plane there are no more checks that I have seen.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463315

Postby redsturgeon » December 5th, 2021, 5:10 pm

Julian wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
swill453 wrote:New change in regulations - "Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

What exactly happens if you test positive before your flight? You can't get on the plane, and your accommodation certainly doesn't want you any more. What are your options?

Scott.

Bearing in mind that the covid test can be lateral flow, I don't understand how they can police that the test belongs to the person preventing it, when it was taken or that it was even taken? Surely some people, if they test positive (bearing in mind the financial consequences of missing their flight, quarantining in a foreign country, booking a new flight etc etc) are just going to fake a negative test? Seems a pretty tokenistic move by the government...

Are all lateral flow tests equal? Many of us are probably familiar with the pack-of-7 free(*) tests that one can order from the NHS or get from chemists for at-home testing but is there also the concept of a not-self-administered lateral flow test where the testing is done at some paid-for testing centre and the results confirmed by a signed form as opposed to the scan your QR code and upload the results method used by the free NHS tests? If a lateral flow test had to be test-centre administered that might finesse your very justifiable concern.

I haven't seen positive confirmation that lateral flow antigen tests work with Omicron. Is this policy implicit confirmation that they do I wonder. If so that is very good news that I wish would be explicitly reported in the mainstream media. [ John (redsturgeon) or anyone else - do you happen to know the latest on that? ]

- Julian

(*) Free for now. I think I did read a few rumours that this might get changed at some point in the not too far distant future.


We do lateral flow tests administered by a registered health care professional and are UKAS accredited to do that. The result is then certified by us as we get photo ID proof of the person we are testing.

It is pretty much certain that the LFT will pick up the Omicron variant there has never been much doubt of that. The LFTs of course cannot differentiate variants though.

John

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463344

Postby XFool » December 5th, 2021, 9:02 pm

How the virus struck back

New Statesman

In this dark pandemic era, Omicron is only the beginning

By Bruno Maçães

Sorcery
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1229
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:38 pm
Has thanked: 147 times
Been thanked: 366 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463349

Postby Sorcery » December 5th, 2021, 9:41 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
We do lateral flow tests administered by a registered health care professional and are UKAS accredited to do that. The result is then certified by us as we get photo ID proof of the person we are testing.

It is pretty much certain that the LFT will pick up the Omicron variant there has never been much doubt of that. The LTF tests of course cannot differentiate variants though.

John


LFT and LTF tests are 2 different things now? I have so far been assuming one or the other was a typo for the other. That's bad Mnenomics imv.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463350

Postby redsturgeon » December 5th, 2021, 9:53 pm

Sorcery wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
We do lateral flow tests administered by a registered health care professional and are UKAS accredited to do that. The result is then certified by us as we get photo ID proof of the person we are testing.

It is pretty much certain that the LFT will pick up the Omicron variant there has never been much doubt of that. The LTF tests of course cannot differentiate variants though.

John


LFT and LTF tests are 2 different things now? I have so far been assuming one or the other was a typo for the other. That's bad Mnenomics imv,


Typo corrected now.

Thanks

John

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463412

Postby XFool » December 6th, 2021, 10:25 am

Covid not over and next pandemic could be more lethal, says Oxford jab creator

The Guardian

Prof Dame Sarah Gilbert says this will not be the last time a virus threatens our lives and our livelihoods

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#463434

Postby Hallucigenia » December 6th, 2021, 11:16 am

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:Act now against Omicron to stop new Covid wave, UK ministers warned
In fact the signs so far are that Omicron might almost be the perfect Covid variant, i.e. it is highly infectious but relatively harmless...So bring it on, Omicron.


It's not "relatively harmless" - the nature of these things is that it's not a case of everyone just gets the sniffles, it's more like playing Russian roulette with 1 bullet rather than 2. Russian roulette gives "mild to no problems for the majority of people" - but for some it ends really badly.

And in this case the transmissibility increase is to be feared more than we smile about the reduced damage. Take a hypothetical example of a city of 1,000,000, which gets 1,000 new infections each day with delta and (thanks to reasonable levels of vaccination) 1 new admission to intensive care per day where they stay 20 days. The city has 75 ICU beds so 20 are taken up with Covid patients - not easy, it takes up most of the slack in the system, but they can just about manage. And although delta is the norm, there's enough masking, ventilation etc to keep the effective R number at about 1, so it stays pretty steady at 1,000 infections per day, and 1 to ICU.

The above describes the current situation of the UK (within an order of magnitude). Now replace that scenario with something that looks like omicron, where the (very provisional) data suggests we're looking at half the hospitalisation rate, but three time the transmissibility of delta in a part-vaxxed population. So initially it's great - on day 0 there's 1000 cases and 1 patient every 2 days going into ICU. But after one infection cycle (5 days) you have 3000 cases and 1.5/day into ICU, after 10 days you have 9x the cases and 4.5x the numbers going into ICU - and it just gets worse from there, very quickly you have no more ICU capacity and lots of people start dying, both from Covid and other things that need intensive care.

People on this site more than most should appreciate the power of compounding - and the provisional data suggests that the reduced harm of omicron doesn't compensate for the much higher transmissibility.


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests