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Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 7:18 am
by Nimrod103
Itsallaguess wrote:I think there may have been some initial scepticism regarding the potential take-up of vaccines by the younger population, so it must have come as a great relief to see just how engaged those between the ages of 25 to 29 were on Tuesday, when the booking system opened up to that age-group -
Young people booked vaccines at rate of 100,000 an hour -
We've got more now on the record day for vaccination bookings.
When vaccine appointments opened to 25 to 29-year-olds yesterday the initial surge prompted 100,000 bookings an hour between 07:00 BST and midday, according to NHS figures.
NHS chief executive Sir Simon Stevens labels it a "Glastonbury-style" rush for jabs - a reference to the traditional stampede to book tickets for the music festival.
He says: "The obvious enthusiasm of younger adults to get their jab has blown out of the water the suggestion that people in their 20s might not come forward to protect themselves and their loved ones."
Hitting one million bookings in a day "sends a fantastic signal", says Dr Emily Lawson, lead for the NHS Covid Vaccination Programme.
She says it shows "the Covid-19 vaccine is something that all of us - no matter our age – can value and be excited by and most importantly should get, when our opportunity comes."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57409973Credit where it's due, and let's hope the superb enthusiasm shown above continues as they work down towards the 18+ groups as well.
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
The young were always going to get vaccinated because that is the only way they will get to travel abroad again. The problem is those ethnic groups who think that the disease doesn’t affect them because their God determines whether they get it or not, not the vaccine .
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 7:23 am
by Nimrod103
swill453 wrote:There was a discussion recently about a mismatch between the national and regional "percentage vaccinated" figures. I can't find it right now, it may or may not have been in this thread.
The subject is covered in today's More Or Less on Radio 4. The issue is that the figure for England as a whole is about 75%, but this figure is higher than the figure for any of the regions that make up England. How's that?
The answer is that they're using different figures for the (adult) population. The national number uses the ONS estimate for population in 2019, which is likely to be an underestimate, hence making the the percentage higher.
However the regions use the number of people registered with the NHS, which is likely to be an overestimate*. This is because people, especially students, may be registered with more than one GP, or people may have moved house and not bothered deregistering. This therefore makes the percentage lower.
EDIT: * - this number comes from the National Immunisation Management Service (NIMS)
Why don’t they use National Insurance numbers as that should be accurate for the number of over 18 year olds??
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 8:54 am
by gryffron
Nimrod103 wrote:Why don’t they use National Insurance numbers as that should be accurate for the number of over 18 year olds??
Foreign workers are given NI numbers, including EU. A lot of people who USED to live here but have now left, are still on the NI system. Not just a brexit problem, even those who were here 30 years ago for a summer job.
Active NI numbers. Still doesn't work. Married housewives (or househusbands) might not use their NI number for decades.
Gryff
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 8:58 am
by swill453
Nimrod103 wrote:Why don’t they use National Insurance numbers as that should be accurate for the number of over 18 year olds??
On a national scale they don't care about individuals, they just need a total number.
At the NHS level, where they're actually doing the vaccinations, there's no link between their systems and NI numbers. To start linking medical records with tax records in a hurry in the middle of a pandemic would have been opening a huge can of worms.
Scott.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 2:06 pm
by supremetwo
gryffron wrote:Nimrod103 wrote:Why don’t they use National Insurance numbers as that should be accurate for the number of over 18 year olds??
Foreign workers are given NI numbers, including EU. A lot of people who USED to live here but have now left, are still on the NI system. Not just a brexit problem, even those who were here 30 years ago for a summer job.
Active NI numbers. Still doesn't work. Married housewives (or househusbands) might not use their NI number for decades.
Gryff
As a side issue, are GPs paid for any on their books who have not attended for years?
If there is no expiry, I query this because GPs appear to be making another case for more pay.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 3:45 pm
by 88V8
Natural immunity soon fades....
“We found that individuals showed very different immune responses from each other following COVID-19, with some people from both the symptomatic and asymptomatic groups showing no evidence of immune memory six months after infection or even sooner,” explains study author Christina Dold.
In general the research saw a correlation between disease severity and lasting immune response. Over 90% of asymptomatic cases showed no measurable immune response six months later. A quarter of symptomatic cases lacked lasting immunity six months after infection.
A little more worrying, however, was the finding that very few serum samples from infected subjects mounted antibody responses against newer variants of the virus. Dold says this seems to suggest those infected with the original SARS-CoV-2 strain in 2020 may have little protection from some of the newer variants beginning to circulate.However, on the bright side....
A growing body of research is finding one dose of a vaccine in previously infected subjects can produce a larger immune response than two doses given to uninfected individuals. Most recently a study led by UCLA affirmed previously infected COVID-19 subjects only required one mRNA vaccine dose to produce a strong antibody response.From a study following 78 UK healthcare workers over a 12-15 month period.
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-612205/v1OK, only 78.
But interesting.
Article thereupon
https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/vaccine-immunity-stronger-than-natural-infection-covid/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=feaffa9b43-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_06_28_08_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-feaffa9b43-92456261Au contraire, as a commentator points out, a Nature study
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01557-z suggests that there
is lasting immunity.
But I wonder if that's only against the original infective strain???
No doubt to be continued.
V8
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 6:43 pm
by ursaminortaur
The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/30/nhs-draws-up-plans-to-roll-out-covid-booster-jabs-from-septemberThe NHS is drawing up plans for a Covid jab booster programme that would roll out third shots of vaccine to millions of the most vulnerable people in the UK from September.
The move follows interim advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation for the health service to prepare a two-stage autumn booster programme pending a final decision in the summer on whether to proceed.
Public health officials believe a further round of Covid shots may be needed to keep levels of protection high enough over the autumn and winter when cases of coronavirus are expected to rebound at the same time that the UK enters what could be a particularly bad influenza season.
.
.
.
The JCVI recommends that if a Covid booster programme goes ahead then stage one should offer a third dose to:
Adults aged 16 years and over who are immunosuppressed.
Those living in residential care homes for older adults.
All adults aged 70 years or over.
Adults aged 16 years and over who are considered clinically extremely vulnerable.
Frontline health and social care workers.
Stage 2 would offer a third dose to:
All adults aged 50 years and over.
All adults aged 16 to 49 years who are in an at-risk group for flu or Covid.
Adult household contacts of immunosuppressed individuals.
The expectation is that any booster would be a single shot, making the rollout faster than the double doses given so far.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 6:47 pm
by Lootman
ursaminortaur wrote:The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards.
Odd in a way coming right on the tails of Pfizer and Moderna stating that the immunity granted by their vaccines may last "several years".
Maybe this is all back down to the Astra Zeneca product being second rate? But at least it is cheap and the NHS loves cheap.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 6:59 pm
by Lanark
Lootman wrote:ursaminortaur wrote:The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards.
Odd in a way coming right on the tails of Pfizer and Moderna stating that the immunity granted by their vaccines may last "several years".
Maybe this is all back down to the Astra Zeneca product being second rate? But at least it is cheap and the NHS loves cheap.
The Astra Zeneca vaccine is in no way second rate, what are you basing that claim on?
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:04 pm
by Lootman
Lanark wrote:Lootman wrote:ursaminortaur wrote:The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards.
Odd in a way coming right on the tails of Pfizer and Moderna stating that the immunity granted by their vaccines may last "several years".
Maybe this is all back down to the Astra Zeneca product being second rate? But at least it is cheap and the NHS loves cheap.
The Astra Zeneca vaccine is in no way second rate, what are you basing that claim on?
The original test data had the AZN efficacy at averaging in the 70% range whereas PZE and MRNA were over 90%. There were more negative side-effects from AZN than its competitors. It has failed the US FDA criteria and has not been approved there, whilst various European nations have stopped using AZN, at least for certain demographics.
It may be way better than nothing, and the price is right, but most people would choose another if they were given a choice.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:30 pm
by XFool
Lootman wrote:ursaminortaur wrote:The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards.
Odd in a way coming right on the tails of Pfizer and Moderna stating that the immunity granted by their vaccines may last "several years".
Maybe this is all back down to the Astra Zeneca product being second rate? But at least it is cheap and the NHS loves cheap.
Couldn't possibly be "second rate" because it is:
1. supplied via the NHS?
2. not from the USA?
3. not "expensive" (like the vaccine chosen by Lootman)?
Surely not the case.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:32 pm
by Lootman
XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:ursaminortaur wrote:The NHS are preparing to give people a third booster shot from September onwards.
Odd in a way coming right on the tails of Pfizer and Moderna stating that the immunity granted by their vaccines may last "several years".
Maybe this is all back down to the Astra Zeneca product being second rate? But at least it is cheap and the NHS loves cheap.
Couldn't possibly be because it is:
1. supplied via the NHS?
2. not from the USA?
3. not "expensive" (like the vaccine chosen by Lootman)?
I provide data. You provide conjecture. 'Twas ever so.
But for the record my vaccine was free.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:36 pm
by XFool
Lootman wrote:I provide data. You provide conjecture. 'Twas ever so.
But for the record my vaccine was free.
True. I had forgotten the pandemic had got even the US health service to come over all 'socialised'.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:49 pm
by Lootman
XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:I provide data. You provide conjecture. 'Twas ever so.
But for the record my vaccine was free.
Did you support Germany last night? The Pfizer vaccine was developed in Germany and delivered to the UK from Belgium. I thought you were pro-EU so why the hate on Pfizer?
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 7:54 pm
by XFool
Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:I provide data. You provide conjecture. 'Twas ever so.
But for the record my vaccine was free.
Did you support Germany last night? The Pfizer vaccine was developed in Germany and delivered to the UK from Belgium. I thought you were pro-EU so why the hate on Pfizer?
(I detect a strawman argument!)
Is Pfizer not a US company? Are you now saying you received your vaccine from the NHS?
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 8:01 pm
by Lootman
XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:
Did you support Germany last night? The Pfizer vaccine was developed in Germany and delivered to the UK from Belgium. I thought you were pro-EU so why the hate on Pfizer?
Is Pfizer not a US company? Are you now saying you received your vaccine from the NHS?
No, apparently you did not know that the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine was developed in the EU, So your disapproval of their product, for which you provide no evidence, is really a prejudice against the EU. Who knew that all along you were an EU-hating Brexiteer?
How about that game last night?
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 8:03 pm
by AleisterCrowley
The Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine has the great advantage that it can be stored and transported at regular fridge temperature, whereas the Pfizer effort needs to be kept at -70C
So -
Much easier to do a mass vaccination with AZN
Poor supply chain control could affect the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine, based on the assumption that it's a lot more difficult to keep something at -70C from production to point of delivery then bring to dose temp in a controlled manner than it is to keep something at fridge temperature
I note that Andrew Marr got a nasty case of COVID at the G7 despite being double jabbed with Pfizer
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 8:08 pm
by Lootman
AleisterCrowley wrote:The Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine has the great advantage that it can be stored and transported at regular fridge temperature, whereas the Pfizer effort needs to be kept at -70C
So -
Much easier to do a mass vaccination with AZN
Poor supply chain control could affect the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine, based on the assumption that it's a lot more difficult to keep something at -70C from production to point of delivery then bring to dose temp in a controlled manner than it is to keep something at fridge temperature
I note that Andrew Marr got a nasty case of COVID at the G7 despite being double jabbed with Pfizer
Agreed, I think that the AZN vaccine is perfect for developing countries and/or places that lack either the funds to buy the more expensive vaccines or else lack the cold chain technology to deliver it.
And none of them deliver 100% protection. It is good to have a choice and I was merely stating what my choice would be, and why.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 8:11 pm
by XFool
Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:Is Pfizer not a US company? Are you now saying you received your vaccine from the NHS?
No, apparently you did not know that the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine was developed in the EU, So your disapproval of their product, for which you provide no evidence, is really a prejudice against the EU.
So, what does your complete lack of evidence for my "disapproval of their product" imply, in terms of prejudice"?
Lootman wrote:Who knew that all along you were an EU-hating Brexiteer?
If I were a horse - I'd have lots of comfy places to lie down.
Re: The vaccine
Posted: June 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm
by Mike4
Lootman wrote:
But for the record my vaccine was free.
Point of Order...
I very much doubt it was free. Free to you perhaps but someone, somewhere paid for it. Or some government did.