1nvest wrote:Of those that have died from vaccine related issues, many of those deaths were a consequence of cardiac based issues.
And how many has that been?
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1nvest wrote:Of those that have died from vaccine related issues, many of those deaths were a consequence of cardiac based issues.
1nvest wrote:On Dec. 10, the World Health Organisation told us no Omicron cases reported up to that date had resulted in death.
Seems like a desire to stop everything as there's a contagious cold going around.
1nvest wrote:Julian wrote:1nvest wrote:… The vaccines are themselves not risk free and have apparently caused often heart related deaths in otherwise fit/relatively young individuals.
I know you’ve been called out on this pretty robustly but I’m going to do it as well. I’m pretty sure that you have said in the past that you have been vaccinated and if my memory is correct then I think it would be safe to assume that you are not an anti-vaxer but posting stuff like this (“caused often heart related deaths in otherwise fit/relatively young individuals”) with no supporting data really does risk adding to the fetid pool of misinformation out there that is so loved and misused by the actual anti-vaxers.
To avoid being hypocritical here is something I just found re myocarditis after the Pfizer vaccine…While cases of myocarditis have been reported in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) following mRNA Covid-19 vaccination, these rates have been lower than those reported in the retracted paper. The majority of events have occurred in male adolescents and young adults after the second dose. The side effect has a prevalence of around 12.6 cases for every million second doses administered. For males aged 12–29 years, the group with the highest rates of myocarditis, there are an estimated 39 to 47 cases for every million second doses given. Most vaccine-related myocarditis patients who receive care respond well and recover.
[ Source: https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.c ... -vaccines/ ]
I’d hardly call 39 to 47 cases per million in the age group showing the highest incidence (males aged 12 to 29) and where “most … who receive care respond well and recover” to be consistent with your comment quoted above re “caused often heart related deaths”.
I don’t claim that my data source is necessarily a complete and/or the most up-to-date and accurate summary of the data on all cardiac side effects of the COVID-19 vaccines but it is at least something more than an “apparently X” statement supported by absolutely no cited source data whatsoever.
Additionally, when assessing the incidence of adverse events for a mass vaccination program one has to look at the rate of those adverse events relative to baseline expected incidence in an unvaccinated population. Purely anecdotally I feel compelled to mention that sudden unexpected death due to cardiac events is not unheard of in the relatively young, vaccine or no vaccine. I have personally known 2 people who died of totally unexpected heart attacks in their 30s and like me I suspect many people here can recall a few stories of sportsmen (I can’t think of any sportswomen as it happens) also having cardiac events. Would that Danish footballer have died had there not been a doctor right there in the support team to give CPR for instance?
- Julian
Of those that have died from vaccine related issues, many of those deaths were a consequence of cardiac based issues.
zico wrote:Interesting point made by a statistician was that if Omicron is doubling every 3 days, even if its hospitalisation rate is only half that of Delta, that just gives us 3 more days before the hospitalisations are at the same level compared with Delta, because there will then be twice as many infections.
Lootman wrote:zico wrote:Interesting point made by a statistician was that if Omicron is doubling every 3 days, even if its hospitalisation rate is only half that of Delta, that just gives us 3 more days before the hospitalisations are at the same level compared with Delta, because there will then be twice as many infections.
I have not seen any published hospitalisation rate for Omicron. Have you? I thought the indications so far is that it is not that harmful and that vaccinations inhibit it from causing serious harm.
So your prognosis seems very much "worst case".
Lootman wrote:I have not seen any published hospitalisation rate for Omicron. Have you? I thought the indications so far is that it is not that harmful and that vaccinations inhibit it from causing serious harm.
Lootman wrote:1nvest wrote:On Dec. 10, the World Health Organisation told us no Omicron cases reported up to that date had resulted in death.
Seems like a desire to stop everything as there's a contagious cold going around.
Do we know if there has even been a hospitalisation?
XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:zico wrote:Interesting point made by a statistician was that if Omicron is doubling every 3 days, even if its hospitalisation rate is only half that of Delta, that just gives us 3 more days before the hospitalisations are at the same level compared with Delta, because there will then be twice as many infections.
I have not seen any published hospitalisation rate for Omicron. Have you? I thought the indications so far is that it is not that harmful and that vaccinations inhibit it from causing serious harm.
So your prognosis seems very much "worst case".
Yet that doesn't seem to square with this: viewtopic.php?p=465018#p465018
Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:I have not seen any published hospitalisation rate for Omicron. Have you? I thought the indications so far is that it is not that harmful and that vaccinations inhibit it from causing serious harm.
So your prognosis seems very much "worst case".
Yet that doesn't seem to square with this: viewtopic.php?p=465018#p465018
But again I was asking for actual data on UK hospitalisations directly due to Omicron, and not mere estimates, predictions or guesses.
XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:Yet that doesn't seem to square with this: viewtopic.php?p=465018#p465018
But again I was asking for actual data on UK hospitalisations directly due to Omicron, and not mere estimates, predictions or guesses.
Looks like at this stage all you are likely to get are the estimates. Wait a few weeks and, given its infectivity, you should have plenty of data.
Lootman wrote:XFool wrote:Lootman wrote:But again I was asking for actual data on UK hospitalisations directly due to Omicron, and not mere estimates, predictions or guesses.
Looks like at this stage all you are likely to get are the estimates. Wait a few weeks and, given its infectivity, you should have plenty of data.
But absent any clear indicator that a massive threat is imminent, why would we over-react? We should be driven by demonstrable facts and not speculations or paranoia about what might possibly happen.
Lootman wrote:But absent any clear indicator that a massive threat is imminent, why would we over-react? We should be driven by demonstrable facts and not speculations or paranoia about what might possibly happen.
Mike4 wrote:Lootman wrote:But absent any clear indicator that a massive threat is imminent, why would we over-react? We should be driven by demonstrable facts and not speculations or paranoia about what might possibly happen.
Remind me how well that worked out last time around....
Mike4 wrote:Lootman wrote:But absent any clear indicator that a massive threat is imminent, why would we over-react? We should be driven by demonstrable facts and not speculations or paranoia about what might possibly happen.
Remind me how well that worked out last time around....
Any effective measure looks like an overreaction, after it has the desired effect.
Lootman wrote:Mike4 wrote:Lootman wrote:But absent any clear indicator that a massive threat is imminent, why would we over-react? We should be driven by demonstrable facts and not speculations or paranoia about what might possibly happen.
Remind me how well that worked out last time around....
Last time? There have been several times and only one of them was serious, and that was PRE-VACCINATION.
If you are arguing to shut down the planet every time there is a new variation, after nearly two years, then all I can say is that that idea will garner almost no political support.
Data first, then panic.
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