Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[vrdiver]

Well as someone responsible for attendees in such a public space I'd rather the Government didn't make such decisions on what we "need to do". My preference, if they were to do anything would be to educate us, (that is providers, and attendees), on what the science tells us. The risks associated with that, and the choices we undertake are "ours" to make, and mandatory "needs" would be no different to other existing types of legislation surrounding similar Health and Safety measures.

Apologies for the ambiguity. By "need to do" I was thinking of legislation around building regulations etc. It's all very well saying "leave it to the individual", but if evidence concludes public health is best served by fitting appropriate air circulation and filtration systems in shopping centres, restaurants etc. I don't want that decision to be optional, same as I don't expect fire exits to be "optional".

VRD

[dealtn]

Well as someone responsible for attendees in such a public space I'd rather the Government didn't make such decisions on what we "need to do". My preference, if they were to do anything would be to educate us, (that is providers, and attendees), on what the science tells us. The risks associated with that, and the choices we undertake are "ours" to make, and mandatory "needs" would be no different to other existing types of legislation surrounding similar Health and Safety measures.

Apologies for the ambiguity. By "need to do" I was thinking of legislation around building regulations etc. It's all very well saying "leave it to the individual", but if evidence concludes public health is best served by fitting appropriate air circulation and filtration systems in shopping centres, restaurants etc. I don't want that decision to be optional, same as I don't expect fire exits to be "optional".

VRD

I suspect we are not far from aligned in that case, and any difference down to that "ambiguity".

As an operator of a public venue we are very keen to minimise any health issues, but also the balance of commercial and financial operation. Customer experience is a key part of what we provide, and drives return visits too. But there is a spectrum along how people see anything we do and how it affects them, leading to a balance of how we respond proportionately.

In exactly the same way we provide (at least the minimum) legal provision for fire protection etc. so do we with physical and mental health. That too changes and evolves over time, and likely will continue to do so.

[Lootman]

From article in today’s FT:

“Ministers have hailed the national vaccination programme as a great success. But as the UK enters the next stage of the pandemic, there is urgency among health and government officials to reach out to the estimated 8.5 per cent of people aged 12 and over who remain unvaccinated.”

Why does the FT assume that there is a "next stage of the pandemic"?

Isn't the current thinking that Covid has basically burned itself out? Such that it becomes something eternal but also manageable, implying that there is little we need to do differently in the future?

So the "next stage" is really the final stage of such things, requiring only acceptance and a willingness to live with it. Whilst more or less getting on with business as usual. Covid is certainly getting minimal news coverage recently, which is surely a sign that the world has moved on. Quite a contrast to the last 24 months of constant reporting about it.

[ReformedCharacter]

I haven't followed the debate about the origin of C19 very closely so I found this Lex Fridman interview with Jamie Metzl about the Lab Leak Theory very interesting. It's a very long interview but the first 60 minutes is particularly informative. The whole interview jumps about a bit but the timestamps given under the video introduction (Show More) are very helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K78jqx9fx2I

RC

[Steveam]

New drug to help in fight against Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60601750

Best wishes,

Steve

[scotia]

Nature Article
Published: 07 March 2022
SARS-CoV-2 is associated with changes in brain structure in UK Biobank

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

The worrying feature of this study is that there have been significant brain effects in persons who only suffered a mild Covid infection

To get the full article - use the download PDF button on the above link to the abstract

[Steveam]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04576-6

Genetic factors leading to serious Covid.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Steveam]

Excess deaths from Covid over the two year period …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60690251

Best wishes,

Steve

[XFool]

Memes, Magnets, and Microchips

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:mx395xj8490/Virality_project_final_report.pd

Narrative dynamics around COVID-19 vaccines

Executive Summary
"Since the start of the global COVID-19 pandemic, global authority figures, institutions, and the public have struggled to share accurate health information. As early as February 2020, the World Health Organization declared an infodemic, a glut of news pouring in and harming peoples’ ability to find trustworthy sources. Mis- and disinformation spread widely. Social media companies, pressured and incentivized to curate the news, sought to surface accurate information about the pandemic, but faced a problem: What should they amplify in the absence of clear scientific consensus? As they pondered, anti-vaccine sentiments grew. Were the vaccines safe? Had our governments overstepped? Misinformation distorted answers to these questions. The global crisis created opportunities for governments, financially motivated actors, and conspiracy theorists to construct or amplify narratives that served their interests. The preexisting US anti-vaccine movement began to insert itself into the national conversation. As far back as January 2020, when talk of a COVID-19 vaccine was purely theoretical, anti-vaccine activists perceived an opportunity to undermine confidence in any and all vaccinations."

"Another recurring actor was Michael Yeadon, an ex-Pfizer vice president who appeared in multiple VP tickets and briefings."

[Lootman]

Memes, Magnets, and Microchips

It is over 2 months since your last post.

Did you have long Covid?

[scotia]

Memes, Magnets, and Microchips

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:mx395xj8490/Virality_project_final_report.pd

The correct reference is https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:mx395xj8490/Virality_project_final_report.pdf
(I added the f on the end of the url)

Its an interesting report with a publication date of February 24 2022
Thanks for the Link

[XFool]

Long Covid could create a generation affected by disability, expert warns

The Guardian

Prof Danny Altmann, immunologist at Imperial College London, says UK’s approach fails to take the impact of infections seriously

“It’s kind of an anathema to me that we’ve kind of thrown in the towel on control of Omicron wave infections and have said ‘it’s endemic, and we don’t care any more, because it’s very benign’,” he said. “It just isn’t. And there are new people joining the long Covid support groups all the time with their disabilities. It’s really not OK, and it’s heartbreaking.”

[XFool]

The claim that the NHS ‘coped’ with Covid is not true - it’s drowning and damaged

The Guardian

Two years on, so much rewriting of history has happened, it is easy to forget just how anarchic and desperate conditions were
Rachel Clarke is a palliative care doctor

[XFool]

NHS under pressure from new Covid wave across England, says Chris Whitty

The Guardian

Increasing numbers of people needing hospital treatment for coronavirus, says chief medical officer

"Prof Chris Whitty said the mounting numbers of people becoming infected was likely to be largely driven by the new Omicron variant, BA.2. The sharp resurgence of the coronavirus underlined that the crisis “is not over”, Whitty added."

[Hallucigenia]

Yet more evidence that ventilation works against an airborne respiratory disease - in Italian schools, Covid cases were reduced by :

40% with 2.4 airchanges per hour
66.8% with 4 airchanges per hour
82.5% with 6 airchanges per hour

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/it ... 022-03-22/

We've known that it's spread by aerosols for nearly 2 years, and yet very little has been done to improve ventilation in schools, never mind the knock-on effect on other infections and allergies.

[Hallucigenia]

Various articles :

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o743
It’s been over three weeks now that cases of covid-19 and hospital admissions have been rising in England. Still, many of the people I speak to are unaware that we are potentially entering yet another wave of this coronavirus pandemic.....At the same time as we are experiencing rapid rises in cases and increased pressure on hospitals, the government is focused on dismantling many of our covid surveillance systems....after so much boasting about being “world-beating” on vaccination and test and trace, that the government is axing one area of the UK’s covid response that genuinely is world-leading—our surveillance capabilities. The withdrawal of funding for the ZOE coronavirus study and REACT is consistent with the government’s ongoing quest to convince us that things are “back to normal” by removing the ability to properly track what’s happening with covid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-60818824
The number of people in hospital with Covid in Devon has doubled in a fortnight, according to NHS Devon.
The inpatient figures, which have risen to 292, are higher than at any other point during the pandemic.
The NHS said the last time that Covid numbers were as high was in January 2021, before most people had Covid vaccinations.
It comes as health bosses said almost 1,200 NHS staff in Devon were currently off work due to Covid.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/livi ... 89475.html
As Covid surges — yet again — healthcare provision spirals even further. Cases have more than doubled since the start of March, admissions increased by 50 per cent, and deaths are already showing a 20 per cent increase. Now, around one in seven medical beds are taken up by Covid patients...The frontline looks like a battlefield. The sight of patients being treated on trolleys, in car parks, waiting for hours, sometimes days to be admitted, is becoming a norm in many parts of the country...January’s record-breaking 12-hour A&E waits now look aspirational. Cancer waits are so bad it’s difficult to even sit with the thought of the thousands of patients waiting months to start time-critical treatment.

[dealtn]

Yet more evidence that ventilation works against an airborne respiratory disease - in Italian schools, Covid cases were reduced by :

40% with 2.4 airchanges per hour
66.8% with 4 airchanges per hour
82.5% with 6 airchanges per hour

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/it ... 022-03-22/

We've known that it's spread by aerosols for nearly 2 years, and yet very little has been done to improve ventilation in schools, never mind the knock-on effect on other infections and allergies.

Who do we think is, and should be, responsible for that "very little"? Government? Schools? Parents? A large "public good" element to this makes it an interesting economic and social dilemma. Parents of school children probably benefit most from the reduced spreading, but the ultimate beneficiaries may well be those most at risk from an otherwise higher number infected in the community.

I suspect most will say "Government", or expressed another way, other people should pay, and under-delivery is a failure of others.

(To be clear I am making non-political statements - especially on this board).

[Hallucigenia]

Who do we think is, and should be, responsible for that "very little"? Government? Schools? Parents? A large "public good" element to this makes it an interesting economic and social dilemma. Parents of school children probably benefit most from the reduced spreading, but the ultimate beneficiaries may well be those most at risk from an otherwise higher number infected in the community.

I suspect most will say "Government"

Well the government is probably the biggest beneficary of reduced infections, given that in this country it funds the NHS and schools, and has been spending billions on all sorts of programmes related to Covid. In comparison to which improving the air in schools is peanuts, we're talking something like £10-20 per child for portable HEPA filtration, less than that with DIY Corsi boxes. It shouldn't be regarded as a cost but as an investment with a pretty short payback time - aside from the fact that "government" in the wider sense is reponsible for the health & safety of its employees in schools, improving air quality during an airborne pandemic is no different to removing asbestos from buildings or buying lab coats for the science labs.

Separate to this conversation, here's an inside look at how things went wrong in Sweden in 2020 :
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5
We argue that that scientific methodology was not followed by the major figures in the acting authorities—or the responsible politicians—with alternative narratives being considered as valid, resulting in arbitrary policy decisions. In 2014, the Public Health Agency merged with the Institute for Infectious Disease Control; the first decision by its new head (Johan Carlson) was to dismiss and move the authority’s six professors to Karolinska Institute. With this setup, the authority lacked expertise and could disregard scientific facts. The Swedish pandemic strategy seemed targeted towards “natural” herd-immunity and avoiding a societal shutdown. The Public Health Agency labelled advice from national scientists and international authorities as extreme positions, resulting in media and political bodies to accept their own policy instead. The Swedish people were kept in ignorance of basic facts...Many elderly people were administered morphine instead of oxygen despite available supplies, effectively ending their lives.

[servodude]

The Swedish people were kept in ignorance of basic facts...Many elderly people were administered morphine instead of oxygen despite available supplies, effectively ending their lives.

This was one of the most horrific things I heard from contacts over there at the start of all of this

The guidelines they published are still available online

Page 6 instructions for a cough (Hosta)

"Pröva i första hand subkutant Morfin 2,5-5mg vid behov"

"First and foremost use 2.5-5mg Morphine "

It should be pretty clear that that is not treatment - it is euthanasia

- sd

[9873210]

The Swedish people were kept in ignorance of basic facts...Many elderly people were administered morphine instead of oxygen despite available supplies, effectively ending their lives.

This was one of the most horrific things I heard from contacts over there at the start of all of this

The guidelines they published are still available online

Page 6 instructions for a cough (Hosta)

"Pröva i första hand subkutant Morfin 2,5-5mg vid behov"

"First and foremost use 2.5-5mg Morphine "

It should be pretty clear that that is not treatment - it is euthanasia

- sd

Not at all clear.

5mg Morphine is not considered a lethal dose, it is certainly not a reliably lethal dose. That would be hundreds of mg. OTOH a few mg of morphine are a long standing,documented treatment for coughs.

In my youth over the counter cough syrup contained codeine (a different opiate). It was disappointing when these were replaced with non-opioid cough syrups that were almost, but not quite, as good as placebos.