Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[servodude]

No the Chinese tried to run a zero COVID policy for years with a shitey vaccine - that's not the same as taking prompt and sensible actions at the start of a pandemic.

Had we take more extreme actions at the start and continued with them, we would have been in de facto zero Covid policy, because every time a new case was discovered we would have been back in those measures. Also, by reducing transmission, we would have had a much larger naive population, so this would have increase the fear of the virus and lengthened the period restrictions would have been in place. Under yours and XFools actions, we would have definitely been in lockdown in winter 2021 and the negative effects and costs that would have caused.

Nonsense

You do understand that in other parts the UK Covid story is told as one of the "oh look how much worse it could have been" places
- and not in the "Poor Italy they didn't know what hit them" way
- rather it's in the "look what a bunch of useless prevaricating fuds in charge can cause" kind of a way?

Perhaps you didn't... but trust me it is

[vrdiver]

Did we (the UK) get it right? No. We wasted a lot of money, we locked down too late, then kept restrictions in place that weren't necessary; we applied a "one rule fits all" approach to lockdown (remember police drones chasing people in the middle of nowhere for being outside?) and we had a Prime Minister and his office that failed to lead by example. BUT, we could have done a lot worse (had the "let it rip" brigade won the day, with the consequent overwhelming of medical resources and the consequent totally preventable loss of life that would have entailed).

I'd be interested to know what lessons, if any, will have been learned come the next pandemic.

VRD

There was never a "let it rip" brigade. You are being intentionally disingenuous by claiming that.

The plan was always to build up a post infection barrier to Covid in the population where Covid was very low risk, under 50's. In conjunction with this the vulnerable would have been protected using measures similar to what did get employed.

The more of the under 50's protected by post infection achieved, would provide much better protection to the elderly. This would have lessoned the impact of the Winter 2020 restrictions due to the naive population being much smaller, possible even to the point of being able to avoid the lockdowns and the associated costs of these actions altogether.

The overreaction early in the pandemic meant we had a much larger naive population come the winter 2020 and thus created the risk and problems that we saw. Had we been less restrictive in the spring/summer of 2020 we would have had a much less severe Winter 2020/Spring 2021. Then there are the reduced long term costs that we are all paying for now from not implementing the more extreme actions.

We will not learn the proper lessons from this pandemic as the Whitewash Inquiry is only going to look at this from the "What more should we have done" side

We may disagree on where the "herd immunity" contingent sat, but I take it you accept the average lost years of life data I presented?

[Lootman]

Had we take more extreme actions at the start and continued with them, we would have been in de facto zero Covid policy, because every time a new case was discovered we would have been back in those measures. Also, by reducing transmission, we would have had a much larger naive population, so this would have increase the fear of the virus and lengthened the period restrictions would have been in place. Under yours and XFools actions, we would have definitely been in lockdown in winter 2021 and the negative effects and costs that would have caused.

Yes, I took the view at the time that we overdid the shutdown. The restrictions on outdoor movements and socialising in particular were obviously useless, which is why I ignored them.

Interestingly at this point in London you almost never see anyone wearing a mask. Not even on crowded tube trains and the like. In fact wearing a mask in public now sends out the message that you are a bit of a weirdo paranoid nutjob fighting yesterday's battles. Some medical offices still require it, but nowhere else.

[harris1939]

The useless report needs to go directly in the bin where it belongs. Good luck to anyone who takes it seriously and thinks that there is any realistic prospect of the UK public, in general, following any new lockdown rules or being forced to inject themselves with rushed vaccines which likely wont work.

[XFool]

The useless report needs to go directly in the bin where it belongs. Good luck to anyone who takes it seriously and thinks that there is any realistic prospect of the UK public, in general, following any new lockdown rules or being forced to inject themselves with rushed vaccines which likely wont work.

Err... But the "useless vaccines" do "work" - leaving aside all the other nonsense.

Sounds to me as if somebody has been spending far too much time on 'Plandemic' conspiracy websites on the Internet.

[servodude]

The useless report needs to go directly in the bin where it belongs. Good luck to anyone who takes it seriously and thinks that there is any realistic prospect of the UK public, in general, following any new lockdown rules or being forced to inject themselves with rushed vaccines which likely wont work.

Err... But the "useless vaccines" do "work" - leaving aside all the other nonsense.

Sounds to me as if somebody has been spending far too much time on 'Plandemic' conspiracy sites on the Internet.

Has the word "cooker" made it to the UK yet?

It gets a bit of run out on main stream media here now - for "one cooked in the head"
- they're a strange bunch; nice beads and sandals, and such
But they know f*** all about how medicine works
- and just won't f****ng stop telling others how much they don't understand!!
Noisy useless thick ignorant muppets ....or cookers for short
You can have that one if you haven't got it already
It's useful

[Tedx]

I believe in WeedgieWorld the term 'roaster' might be close to 'cooker'?

I'm not an expert on their language though.

[Lootman]

The useless report needs to go directly in the bin where it belongs. Good luck to anyone who takes it seriously and thinks that there is any realistic prospect of the UK public, in general, following any new lockdown rules or being forced to inject themselves with rushed vaccines which likely wont work.

Yeah, Brits are totally done with Covid, and any attempt to resurrect the paranoia of 3+ years ago (which some here and elsewhere appear to want to perpetuate forever) are doomed.

The testing centres are all gone and you have to pay for tests. Demand for Covid booster jabs is down the toilet. And nobody wears a mask anywhere.

Next!?

[Ashfordian]

We may disagree on where the "herd immunity" contingent sat, but I take it you accept the average lost years of life data I presented?

I can't dispute the study but have a couple of reservations regarding the data:

Firstly, it is known the average age of death from Covid was higher than average age from standard mortality. Something does not add up here.

Secondly, I have seen a similar study that was performed in 2020 by a University that had similar results, but that study failed to include care/nursing home residents which hugely inflated their average.

I've not seen the underlying data for this but note the study does state:

The analysis uses average life expectancies at each age. These may be overestimates as those who died from COVID-19 were more likely to have co-morbidities than their peers and may have had lower life expectancies. Our overall estimate should therefore be seen as an upper bound on the number of years of life lost from COVID-19.

[Lootman]

We may disagree on where the "herd immunity" contingent sat, but I take it you accept the average lost years of life data I presented?

I can't dispute the study but have a couple of reservations regarding the data:

Firstly, it is known the average age of death from Covid was higher than average age from standard mortality. Something does not add up here.

Secondly, I have seen a similar study that was performed in 2020 by a University that had similar results, but that study failed to include care/nursing home residents which hugely inflated their average. I've not seen the underlying data for this but note the study does state:

The analysis uses average life expectancies at each age. These may be overestimates as those who died from COVID-19 were more likely to have co-morbidities than their peers and may have had lower life expectancies. Our overall estimate should therefore be seen as an upper bound on the number of years of life lost from COVID-19.

I only know one person who died of Covid. My aunt. She was 91.

I know quite a few younger people who caught it. They are all fine now.

[Ashfordian]

Interestingly at this point in London you almost never see anyone wearing a mask. Not even on crowded tube trains and the like. In fact wearing a mask in public now sends out the message that you are a bit of a weirdo paranoid nutjob fighting yesterday's battles. Some medical offices still require it, but nowhere else.

Unfortunately the majority of people I observe still wearing masks in public (and outside in the fresh air) are youths. Now we don't need to put 2+2 together to know their reason for doing this. They have simply adopted their wearing as a way to hide their face, and we 100% know why they are doing this.

This is another, albeit in the scheme of things, minor consequence of our overreaction to Covid, and one we will have to live with and its consequences for years to come. I suspect the wearing of facemasks will have to be banned to reverse this newly adopted 'trend'.

[Lootman]

Interestingly at this point in London you almost never see anyone wearing a mask. Not even on crowded tube trains and the like. In fact wearing a mask in public now sends out the message that you are a bit of a weirdo paranoid nutjob fighting yesterday's battles. Some medical offices still require it, but nowhere else.

Unfortunately the majority of people I observe still wearing masks in public (and outside in the fresh air) are youths. Now we don't need to put 2+2 together to know their reason for doing this. They have simply adopted their wearing as a way to hide their face, and we 100% know why they are doing this.

This is another, albeit in the scheme of things, minor consequence of our overreaction to Covid, and one we will have to live with and its consequences for years to come. I suspect the wearing of facemasks will have to be banned to reverse this newly adopted 'trend'.

Yes, the standard outfit of a ne'er-do-well in London now is baseball cap, sunglasses and surgical mask.

So much for CCTV . . .

[servodude]

I believe in WeedgieWorld the term 'roaster' might be close to 'cooker'?

I'm not an expert on their language though.

Oh tell me WeedgieWorld is a real place!?
Like you have to avoid the razor blades on the flumes? (Kids are so soft these days!)

Anyways init great to see that the only shite on this COVID part of the site is from "roasters" (though I think I heard your sister might have been one?), "cookers", "anti-vax twats", truthers and noise merchants
- looks like the job's done
Now I need to work out why 11 funny looking rough English birds (seriously I though the team were drawn by Roger Hargreaves at one point - what's with the pointy face thing -how shallow is the gene pool??) playing the Spanish lassies gets prime TV time here... but I can't watch the inevitable drubbing of the Dons by StMirren?

[Lootman]

the only shite on this COVID part of the site is from "roasters" (though I think I heard your sister might have been one?), "cookers", "anti-vax twats", truthers and noise merchants

That is odd because "the only shite on this COVID part of the site" I see is from Lemons who use abusive terms for anyone who disagrees with them in place of genuine arguments and facts.

[Ashfordian]

the only shite on this COVID part of the site is from "roasters" (though I think I heard your sister might have been one?), "cookers", "anti-vax twats", truthers and noise merchants

That is odd because "the only shite on this COVID part of the site" I see is from Lemons who use abusive terms for anyone who disagrees with them in place of genuine arguments and facts.

This is correct. They are in denial that the actions they supported and encouraged have caused more lasting damage to the lives of people than they saved. They are reacting to the guilt they feel!

The reality is that if you are over 60 today you are on average going to have worse health outcomes because of our overreaction to Covid than you would have done before 2020. Additionally, you will pay for these outcomes financially as well. I think as a country we have two decades of pain to get through while the system corrects itself. Those of us under 50, will, just have to pay financially for this, if we look after our long term health.

However, we have moved on somewhat. If you dared to criticise the government's overreaction to Covid in 2020 or 2021, you would received a ban without question from LF. At least now a discussion to criticise the overreaction is no longer censored.

[servodude]

That is odd because "the only shite on this COVID part of the site" I see is from Lemons who use abusive terms for anyone who disagrees with them in place of genuine arguments and facts.

This is correct. They are in denial that the actions they supported and encouraged have caused more lasting damage to the lives of people than they saved. They are reacting to the guilt they feel!

The reality is that if you are over 60 today you are on average going to have worse health outcomes because of our overreaction to Covid than you would have done before 2020. Additionally, you will pay for these outcomes financially as well. I think as a country we have two decades of pain to get through while the system corrects itself. Those of us under 50, will, just have to pay financially for this, if we look after our long term health.

However, we have moved on somewhat. If you dared to criticise the government's overreaction to Covid in 2020 or 2021, you would received a ban without question from LF. At least now a discussion to criticise the overreaction is no longer censored.

[XFool]

Unfortunately the majority of people I observe still wearing masks in public (and outside in the fresh air) are youths.

This seems completely the opposite to my observation, that the majority of people now wearing masks in public are older people.

Reality, huh? Completely different with different people.

[Mike4]

Unfortunately the majority of people I observe still wearing masks in public (and outside in the fresh air) are youths.

This seems completely the opposite to my observation, that the majority of people now wearing masks in public are older people.

Reality, huh? Completely different with different people.

Same here. Nearly always people over 40 (I'd estimate) who I see wearing masks. Definitely on the rise again around here (Wiltshire). When I go shopping in medium sized supermarkets e.g. Waitrose in Newbury on my way home I'll notice perhaps five or six mask wearing shoppers and/or staff members, whereas six months ago probably one or none.

Edit to add:
I usually assume the mask wearers are the ones who know they have covid (rather than the nutjobs most people imagine they are), as wearing a mask is to protect other people e.g. you and me.

[Tedx]

Most folk I see wearing a facemask these days are in the local paper and they're coming out of the court house .

[CliffEdge]

You don't see much about COVID on the news nowadays. There was something about a uterus transplant.