Coronavirus Health - Health and Wellbeing

[bungeejumper]

Still, let's look on the bright side, we can now add bright lights and disinfectant to the list of candidates for serious studies.

There's a wonderful video of Deborah Birx, the White House co-ordinator for the coronavirus response, as she sits there at Trump's side listening to him mangling what she's said. You can watch her moving from pride to surprise, to shock, to alarm, and then to wishing a great big hole would open in the floor and swallow her up. Or, preferably, both of them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDie ... _asks_his/

Priceless. And incidentally, Reckitt Benckiser has put out a statement today:

“Due to recent speculation and social media activity, RB has been asked whether internal administration of disinfectants may be appropriate for investigation or use as a treatment for coronavirus.

“As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion or any other route).”

You really couldn't make it up. What a pity that we don't need to.

BJ

[redsturgeon]

Here is an interesting view from an American MD on how we should proceed from here.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... -isolation

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.
Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.
Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.
Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.
Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

I am coming round to the idea that many more weeks of lock down will become counter productive.

I guess it is now a political decision as to when the lockdown will end but I think it needs to be sooner rather than later.

John

[bungeejumper]

Late news just in. The House of Representatives has voted to begin imbleachment proceedings against the president.

BJ

[AJC5001]

Here is an interesting view from an American MD on how we should proceed from here.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... -isolation

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.
Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.
Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.
Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.
Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

I am coming round to the idea that many more weeks of lock down will become counter productive.

I guess it is now a political decision as to when the lockdown will end but I think it needs to be sooner rather than later.

John

Simply summed up as "Lock up the old!"

I did wonder if it would pick up on the disproportionate susceptibility of the BAME in Covid fatalities, given it was an Americam MD.

Adrian

[AleisterCrowley]

Here is an interesting view from an American MD on how we should proceed from here.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... -isolation

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.
Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.
Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.
Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.
Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

I am coming round to the idea that many more weeks of lock down will become counter productive.

I guess it is now a political decision as to when the lockdown will end but I think it needs to be sooner rather than later.

John

Yes, pretty much agree with that - also;.
Economic impact - trashing the economy means less money for the NHS later
Lockdown induced deaths - suicide, domestic violence and, indirectly, missed screening/medical checks. Plus a bit of alcoholism (hic)

[Mike4]

I must admit I've missed that. I'd still assume that isolation is the end result but I think we definitely need to tighten the rules on isolation at that stage. Other countries use either phone based or even ankle bracelets to ensure strict quarantine.

John

Here, I can't imagine people tolerating wearing an ankle bracelet. Not sure how that would keep them indoors anyway. Same with the phone, people supposedly strictly isolated would just leave it at home when they go shopping.

Without some sort of legal enforcement of isolation the only way I can think of is to pay people to wear a proper GPS tracker that stops the payments if they leave home.

[SalvorHardin]

Regarding the use of disinfectants against the Wuhan Coronavirus. Not as daft as it sounds. There is a process known as "Alcohol Inhalation", where alcohol is vapourised and then inhaled, which is used by some people recreationally (often with nasty effects) and which has medical applications.

Since the 1950s ethanol inhalation has been used for the treatment of pulmonary edema (fluid on the lungs).

https://gizmodo.com/is-it-a-good-idea-to-vaporize-and-inhale-alcohol-1561227862

It has been suggested as a treatment for the Wuhan Coronavirus by Tsumoru Shintake, a Japanese medical physicist. Link below to his paper:

"Possibility of Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) in Human Respiratory Tract by Controlled Ethanol Vapor Inhalation"

https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.12444

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_inhalation

[feder1]

The problem for some of us is that we are older during lockdown and our chances of a horrible death from virus is increasing.

Would we better to go out and about as much as possible immediately and try to get infected and get it all over with, one way or another?

In any event I never liked the thought of sitting in an old folks home with a deficient brain for decades.

[sg31]

The problem for some of us is that we are older during lockdown and our chances of a horrible death from virus is increasing.

Would we better to go out and about as much as possible immediately and try to get infected and get it all over with, one way or another?

In any event I never liked the thought of sitting in an old folks home with a deficient brain for decades.

There's no current evidence that being infected and recovering will provide immunity, or if it did, how long that immunity would last.

From the BBC this morning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52424263

The World Health Organization

(WHO) says that there is "currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection".

It has been suggested that people who survive an infection may develop antibodies that can attack the virus and prevent reinfection.

In the UK, antibody blood testing and surveillance to determine the rate of infection among the public is one of "five pillars" of the government's testing strategy, designed to suppress the virus.

Antibody testing - to show if someone has had the virus in the past - is considered crucial in providing an exit pathway from the current lockdown, as well as providing data to those developing a vaccine.

[Itsallaguess]

(WHO) says that there is "currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection".

Though it's not clear when they'd expect to begin to see such 'evidence' either...

'Hello Sir, we're calling on behalf of the World Health Organisation and have heard that you've recently recovered from that terrible Covid-19 that's doing the rounds.

Can we interest you at all in a re-infection trial that we're running?

You'll be entered into a draw, and would have a chance to win an Ipad....'

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[look]

an oximeter can be used to detect the virus in early stage, before symptons.
it could save respirators.
dr. Levitan from new york

it was a pretty poorly written piece by him wasn't it?

an oximeter can be used to detect your SpO2 level
- if this drops below what you normally measure you likely have developed a problem in your lungs OR in your blood
- either of which might be due to COVID-19 (if the current thoughts of it mucking with the haemoglobin efficiency are true and we already know it gives you a good chance of pneumonia and/or fibrosis)

that's not detecting the virus, it's detecting a symptom (possibly earlier than you might have esp. if the person concerned was regularly short of breath)
- and it's a pretty routine thing to measure if someone has the possibility of a respiratory disorder



i think it's a precious information, a game changer information.

[johnhemming]

Oxygen saturation measuring devices cost about £25. I find it one of the useful things to measure along with blood pressure, heart rate and temperature. Its faster than phoning 111. I don't think people are being admitted unless the Sp02 goes below 93%.

[sg31]

I found this interesting.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early ... 7.full.pdf

Cao et al. (23) showed that the level of specific neu-tralizing antibody to SARS-CoV decreased gradually 4 mo afterthe disease process, reaching undetectable levels in 25.6% (IgG)and 16.1% (neutralizing antibodies) of patients at 36 mo afterdisease status. A study from the MERS-CoV−infected patientsand the exposed healthcare workers showed that the prevalenceof MERS-CoV IgG seroreactivity was very low (2.7%), and theantibodies titer decreased rapidly within 3 mo (24). These studiessuggested that the neutralizing antibodies represented short-lasting humoral immune response

It doesn't relate directly to Covid 19 but to my mind raises questions about the idea of herd immunity.

[SalvorHardin]

The Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, has announced that the Japanese authorities intend to approve Remdesivir for the treatment of the Wuhan coronavirus. A government official said that this would happen in May. Remdesivir is currently undergoing a clinical trial in Japan, which is expected to report next week. To me this says that the Japanese authorities already have enough information as to its effectiveness.

"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said Monday that Japan will soon approve the anti-viral drug remdesivir for the treatment of coronavirus patients, in what will be the country's first such decision amid the pandemic"

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/04/96de780ad3e1-japan-to-approve-remdesivir-for-coronavirus-patients-in-may.html

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gilead-s-covid-19-hopeful-remdesivir-may-get-swift-japanese-approval-report

Last week when the Chinese announced a failed trial this wasn't anything new yet the media reacted as if it was fatal to the drug's prospects. All that had happened was that tere weren't enough people in the trial to make it statistically significant (frankly I wouldn't be surprised if China deliberately did this to scupper the trial). As is so often the case the media treated statements from the Chinese authorities as gospel.

[look]

a brazilian doctor (female) treats severe cases with anticoagulants. I think it was heparin.
27 cases, 25 already went home.
I think they received other meds before, she said she wants to give it earlier.

[UncleEbenezer]

It doesn't relate directly to Covid 19 but to my mind raises questions about the idea of herd immunity.

The Herd Immunity that may be most likely is the herd immunity we have to the common cold. We are not immune - far from it - but we cope. The cold is generally a mild to moderate and illness of fairly short duration, that very rarely kills or does lasting harm.

Yet it is said that when Europeans first went to the Americas, the common cold devastated native populations there. To the Europeans it was a common cold, something the immune system was adapted to cope with. To the native Americans it was a novel virus imported by the newcomers.

I would suggest that a plausible longer-term prospect for covid is that once it is no longer novel, it becomes just another common cold. We can still catch it, but the disease is no longer serious.

That would be fine for the population in general, but looks like bad news for individuals isolating to avoid it.

[servodude]

It doesn't relate directly to Covid 19 but to my mind raises questions about the idea of herd immunity.

The Herd Immunity that may be most likely is the herd immunity we have to the common cold. We are not immune - far from it - but we cope. The cold is generally a mild to moderate and illness of fairly short duration, that very rarely kills or does lasting harm.

Yet it is said that when Europeans first went to the Americas, the common cold devastated native populations there. To the Europeans it was a common cold, something the immune system was adapted to cope with. To the native Americans it was a novel virus imported by the newcomers.

I would suggest that a plausible longer-term prospect for covid is that once it is no longer novel, it becomes just another common cold. We can still catch it, but the disease is no longer serious.

That would be fine for the population in general, but looks like bad news for individuals isolating to avoid it.

This, to me, looks like an increasingly (depressingly) likely scenario

- sd

[sg31]

This, to me, looks like an increasingly (depressingly) likely scenario

- sd

I think that unless a vaccine or effective treatment is found that might be the best we can hope for.

[redsturgeon]

This, to me, looks like an increasingly (depressingly) likely scenario

- sd

I think that unless a vaccine or effective treatment is found that might be the best we can hope for.

I am of the pessimistic view that the chances of vaccines or effective treatments within a year or two are less than 50% perhaps much less.

John

[redsturgeon]

a brazilian doctor (female) treats severe cases with anticoagulants. I think it was heparin.
27 cases, 25 already went home.
I think they received other meds before, she said she wants to give it earlier.

I think there will be many doctors around the world who have given their patients paracetamol and most already went home. Unless you have a link with more details, it is pointless and on a par with Trump's speculations on disinfectants.

John