The vaccine

[swill453]

Does anyone know if there's a particular birth date cutoff being used for determining your "official" age for vaccination? Obviously people are having birthdays all the time so some are moving from one priority group to another.

Presumably a fixed date is being used, to avoid missing people?

It's possible this is being decided at a local level so I'm aware there may be more than one answer to this.

(I have a vested interest, as I will be moving from one priority group to another very soon...)

I can’t imagine that they run a report of (say) the 60 to 65s at that moment in time and invite them, then a few weeks later run a report of the 55 to 59s at that moment in time, resulting in those who turned 60 in the couple of weeks the 60 to 65s vaccinations were being done falling down the gap!

I know. Hence my question...

Scott.

[swill453]

Does anyone know if there's a particular birth date cutoff being used for determining your "official" age for vaccination? Obviously people are having birthdays all the time so some are moving from one priority group to another.
Presumably a fixed date is being used....

I just tipped into the category a month ago, and was invited.
So I presume they're working off date of birth, rather than pretending that we aren't getting older

Maybe, but that would potentially lead to people falling through a gap if they didn't specifically look out for that.

Scott.

[Lootman]

Further encouraging news from the Telegraph -
But the latest data from PHE will show that, critically, just one dose of either vaccine appears to block transmission of the virus by around two thirds in all age groups. The finding is crucial to efforts to lift Britain out of lockdown as the vaccination programme is ramped up. [/i]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/18/exclusive-covid-jabs-data-can-pave-way-freedom/

Which opens up the can of worms as to whether to divert the 2nd dose vaccines to the under 50s, so as to mute transmission in the general population as fast as possible, or to stay with vaccinating the over 50s with their 2nd jab, whilst leaving the under 50s to fend for themselves.

Glad that decision is above my pay grade!

The NY Times is reporting a study indicating that the second dose can be maybe not given for those who have already been infected, and who therefore already have some immunity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/heal ... -dose.html

[1nvest]

The NY Times is reporting a study indicating that the second dose can be maybe not given for those who have already been infected, and who therefore already have some immunity.

The vaccine doesn't prevent contraction, rather it alleviates contraction turning into severe/fatal conditions being experienced. Only a relatively small percentage endure such severe/fatal conditions so presumably in having already had it once without such conditions then limited vaccine would be better placed into those where whether they might endure severe conditions or not is more unknown. For very many, contracting Covid is milder than contracting the common cold.

[1nvest]

IMO the breakthrough may be the identification of why Covid affects a relatively small percentage so harshly, but not others (the majority). Given the existence of a vaccine to alleviate that group then that might entail just a select 5%/whatever of the population requiring regular/yearly Covid vaccine jabs. That's very subjective however, for example severity may be down to circumstances such as initial viral load/exposure.

[Itsallaguess]

An encouraging recent chart here, showing the marked reduction in severe COVID hospitalisations in the over-60 group in Israel since their vaccination programme started -



Source - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitalizations-age

Always difficult, of course, to take into account of the national January lockdown in these sorts of multi-influence situations, but the clear difference in trajectory of the over-60 group to those younger infections might be encouraging for our own situation in the coming weeks and months...

A link here to the wider Israel data, which contains many other encouraging charts - https://ourworldindata.org/vaccination-israel-impact

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Bouleversee]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks. The real test will be when lockdown ceases.

[Itsallaguess]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks.

I'm not sure if you've seen much news about your concerns above this week?


COVID-19: Oxford jab more effective when doses are delivered three months apart, study finds (19th Feb) -

The study supports the government's strategy that rolling out first doses - with a second dose after three months - is effective.

The Oxford vaccine is more effective when doses are delivered three months apart rather than six weeks, a new study has confirmed.

With three months between the first and second dose there was an overall efficacy of 81%, compared to 55% for a six-week interval.

The first dose offered 76% protection in the three months between doses, according to University of Oxford research published in The Lancet.

The findings are a boost for the UK vaccination programme, as Britons will receive doses of Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccines up to 12 weeks apart - the same as for the Pfizer vaccine.

The report supports the government's strategy that rolling out first doses - with a second dose after three months - is effective at reducing disease.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxford-jab-more-effective-when-doses-are-delivered-three-months-apart-study-finds-12222938



Israeli study: 75% protection from 1st Pfizer vaccine dose, so okay to delay 2nd (19th Feb) -

Pfizer’s vaccine is 75 percent effective two to four weeks after a single shot, according to a “groundbreaking” new Israeli study that may guide policy internationally on one of the most burning vaccine questions.

This figure reflects symptomatic and asymptomatic illness. When the Sheba Medical Center team homed in on stats just for people who felt unwell, they found that a single dose has 85% effectiveness.

This constitutes a “very, very significant reduction,” said Prof. Gili Regev-Yochay, Director of Sheba Medical Center’s Infectious Disease Epidemiology Unit.

In some countries racing to vaccinate large populations, doctors are arguing over whether they should delay second shots so they can give more people partial protection with one shot. The UK has controversially adopted this approach, despite growing concern in the medical profession.

On Thursday, Sheba researchers released research which it says supports the UK’s approach. Unlike most of the Israeli data on vaccine effectiveness, which hasn’t yet been subject to peer review, this study has been peer-reviewed and published in the prestigious journal The Lancet.

“This ground-breaking research supports the British government’s decision to begin inoculating its citizens with a single dose of the vaccine,” claimed Prof. Arnon Afek, the hospital’s director-general.

The UK has mainly been using the vaccine created by Oxford University and pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca, although it has also administered the Pfizer inoculation to some.

Regev-Yochay said that according to her research the first vaccine shot is exceeding expectations set by clinical trials. “In real life we’re seeing excellent results,” she said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/75-protection-from-1st-covid-shot-alone-so-okay-to-delay-2nd-israeli-study/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[tjh290633]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks. The real test will be when lockdown ceases.

I think it shows that vaccination works, but that lockdown has no effect.

TJH

[servodude]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks. The real test will be when lockdown ceases.

I think it shows that vaccination works, but that lockdown has no effect.

TJH

I'm amazed if lockdown has no effect how many folk who can't read a graph rally against it

[XFool]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks. The real test will be when lockdown ceases.

I think it shows that vaccination works, but that lockdown has no effect.

How do you know?

Also, we didn't have a vaccine at the time of the first wave, so what was it that (initially) 'worked' then?

To anticipate two of your possible explanations, e.g. : 'Herd immunity, the summer weather'. I'd say, so you reckon there was more involved then than lockdown/vaccine?
In which case, how can you be sure it's a simple matter of lockdown vs vaccine this time around?

[XFool]

Florida women wear 'granny' disguise to try to get Covid vaccine

The Gurdian

Two women aged 34 and 44 rumbled while wearing bonnets and gloves to vaccination centre

[Julian]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks.

I'm not sure if you've seen much news about your concerns above this week?


...
Israeli study: 75% protection from 1st Pfizer vaccine dose, so okay to delay 2nd (19th Feb) -

[i]Pfizer’s vaccine is 75 percent effective two to four weeks after a single shot, according to a “groundbreaking” new Israeli study that may guide policy internationally on one of the most burning vaccine questions.

This figure reflects symptomatic and asymptomatic illness. When the Sheba Medical Center team homed in on stats just for people who felt unwell, they found that a single dose has 85% effectiveness.
...
On Thursday, Sheba researchers released research which it says supports the UK’s approach. Unlike most of the Israeli data on vaccine effectiveness, which hasn’t yet been subject to peer review, this study has been peer-reviewed and published in the prestigious journal The Lancet.
...

From the writeup I don't see how the Israeli research supports the conclusion that the 12 week dosing interval for the Pfizer vaccine is validated because they only looked at efficacy up to 4 weeks after the first shot beyond which data presumably could not be collected because everyone in Israel would have had their second shot by then. Yes, it's great to see significant efficacy shortly after one shot being demonstrated but to complete the analysis of whether the UK's decision has longer term consequences shouldn't studies also be done on how that one-shot-efficacy holds up 6, 8 all the way up to maybe 12 weeks after the first shot and maybe a few weeks beyond that to allow a bit of extra time both for the booster shot to add its effect and/or for people to be a week or two late in getting their 12 week booster? Presumably only the UK is in a position to collect that data on any meaningful scale since it is the only place (that I am aware of) implementing such a long dosing interval.

The other longer term effect that ideally should I assume be studied at some point is how do the efficacy against time curves running out to a year or more after the first dose compare for people who, for the various vaccines, were vaccinated at the recommended (phase 3 tested) dosing intervals vs the UK 12 week dosing interval in order to determine how extending the dosing intervals effects the longer term efficacy characteristics of the various vaccines.

I'm not saying we're all doomed, I am still of the opinion that especially for the AZ vaccine the UK made the right decision and, given the dire situation we were in around Christmas and into January, I can see why the decision was made to do the same with the Pfizer vaccine despite there being no data on extended dosing regimens there so it was a bigger risk, but it does seem to me that there is an awful lot more data that needs to be collected and analysed before we can say with any certainty what the consequences, if any, will be of extending the dosing interval particularly of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

- Julian

[Itsallaguess]

...

Israeli study: 75% protection from 1st Pfizer vaccine dose, so okay to delay 2nd (19th Feb) -

Pfizer’s vaccine is 75 percent effective two to four weeks after a single shot, according to a “groundbreaking” new Israeli study that may guide policy internationally on one of the most burning vaccine questions.

This figure reflects symptomatic and asymptomatic illness. When the Sheba Medical Center team homed in on stats just for people who felt unwell, they found that a single dose has 85% effectiveness.

...

On Thursday, Sheba researchers released research which it says supports the UK’s approach. Unlike most of the Israeli data on vaccine effectiveness, which hasn’t yet been subject to peer review, this study has been peer-reviewed and published in the prestigious journal The Lancet.

...

I'm not saying we're all doomed, I am still of the opinion that especially for the AZ vaccine the UK made the right decision and, given the dire situation we were in around Christmas and into January, I can see why the decision was made to do the same with the Pfizer vaccine despite there being no data on extended dosing regimens there so it was a bigger risk, but it does seem to me that there is an awful lot more data that needs to be collected and analysed before we can say with any certainty what the consequences, if any, will be of extending the dosing interval particularly of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Oh absolutely - and hopefully those studies will currently be ongoing and we'll get to hear about the data relatively soon, but I just wanted to highlight that what seemed on the face of it to initially be primarily an exercise in expediency with regards to the longer periods between first and second UK doses, that wider data was now becoming available that might show additional benefits to doing so as well, some of which were touched on in the two articles I linked to earlier.

I completely agree that more work needs to be done, but it's nice to see some early studies detailing these sorts of additional benefits, on top of the more 'broad-brush benefits' that seemed to influence the UK approach initially...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Bouleversee]

I hadn't seen the linked article but have read it now and I had read an article in The Times yesterday about it which I had rather discounted as the study was only applied to hospital workers who I doubt are ever over the age of 80 which is the age group I am mostly concerned with as regards the effectiveness after a single dose. Also, it is quite likely that many of them will have already had an infection which is tantamount to a dose of vaccine AIUI. The Lancet wasn't particularly complimentary and I question the accuracy of the following statement:

" The UK has mainly been using the vaccine created by Oxford University and pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca, although it has also administered the Pfizer inoculation to some."

So far as I am aware, the UK has only recently started using the Oxford vaccine. In my area, they are still using the Pfizer one for first jabs which is why there is some concern about the availability of supplies of that for the 2nd.

Julian has already said all I was going to say otherwise, except that the reduction in cases/deaths of the elderly here may possibly be due to the first batch getting their second jabs before the dosage switch and we may find the graph goes up again shortly when single dose oldies are in the frame and if it doesn't, with respect to TJH, that could also be because of the lockdown. I have heard several "experts" say in the past few days that it is impossible to know at present how much of the reduction is due to either.

Until I read that Ravi Gupta's research at Cambridge has been proven wrong and there is peer reviewed evidence to the contrary from a reliable source, I shall stick to my guns.

[Arborbridge]

It may be and hopefully will be but don't forget that they have administered doses with a 3 week interval which we only did briefly till it was changed to 12 weeks. The real test will be when lockdown ceases.

I think it shows that vaccination works, but that lockdown has no effect.

TJH

Strnge: lockdown imposed in UK - infection numbers and deaths start tailing off; lockdown lifted and school go back - infections rise and deaths increase; lcokdown started and infections fall, deaths decrease.

Seems pretty consistent to me. An ABAB test: what more does one want?

Arb

[Bouleversee]

There was a heated debate on Any Questions and Any Answers today about whether care workers in Care Homes should be obliged to have the vaccine. All the panel members said the vaccine shouldn't be mandatory and all the people who phoned in to AA, including a GP who had just lost his mother to Covid in a home and a man who was a resident in a nursing home, were adamant that it should be a case of a jab for a job. Clearly, nobody should be held down and forced to have the vaccine but imo it should be a requirement for certain jobs. We should be having training courses for carers ready for the need for recruitment. As good a time as any to attract people into an occupation in which there will be increasing need and which should be paid accordingly.

[Lootman]

There was a heated debate on Any Questions and Any Answers today about whether care workers in Care Homes should be obliged to have the vaccine. All the panel members said the vaccine shouldn't be mandatory and all the people who phoned in to AA, including a GP who had just lost his mother to Covid in a home and a man who was a resident in a nursing home, were adamant that it should be a case of a jab for a job. Clearly, nobody should be held down and forced to have the vaccine but imo it should be a requirement for certain jobs. We should be having training courses for carers ready for the need for recruitment. As good a time as any to attract people into an occupation in which there will be increasing need and which should be paid accordingly.

I do not for the life of me see why someone would not want the vaccine, absent some improbable health reason. I hope that so-called vaccine passports will be required for a variety of jobs and situations. Already some tourist destinations like Thailand are saying that you will need one to visit.

Getting my second Pfizer jab this coming week, and am thrilled about it. Minimal side-effects from the first one - just a slightly sore arm the next day.

[monabri]

I've got this all to look forward to.....getting the jab that is!

I wonder if the people carrying out the vaccinations are beginning to get bored with jabbing people with a needle ..just a thought that crossed my mind!

[Bouleversee]

There was a heated debate on Any Questions and Any Answers today about whether care workers in Care Homes should be obliged to have the vaccine. All the panel members said the vaccine shouldn't be mandatory and all the people who phoned in to AA, including a GP who had just lost his mother to Covid in a home and a man who was a resident in a nursing home, were adamant that it should be a case of a jab for a job. Clearly, nobody should be held down and forced to have the vaccine but imo it should be a requirement for certain jobs. We should be having training courses for carers ready for the need for recruitment. As good a time as any to attract people into an occupation in which there will be increasing need and which should be paid accordingly.

I do not for the life of me see why someone would not want the vaccine, absent some improbable health reason. I hope that so-called vaccine passports will be required for a variety of jobs and situations. Already some tourist destinations like Thailand are saying that you will need one to visit.

Getting my second Pfizer jab this coming week, and am thrilled about it. Minimal side-effects from the first one - just a slightly sore arm the next day.

A nurse in the home where the doctor's mother died said she thought the mother might have caught Covid from her vaccine jab. Needless to say, the doctor didn't think much of that suggestion but it does give a hint of why some don't want the vaccine. The govt. may say that they need educating and persuading rather than forcing but it is far too late for that. It should be part of their training.