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I'm done

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
funduffer
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Re: I'm done

#384390

Postby funduffer » February 7th, 2021, 10:57 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
funduffer wrote:
I signed up by agreeing to consider taking part in CV19 research last autumn. Then I was contacted when the trial started.

I was unblinded due to ethics. It is unethical to deny a participant a vaccine when one is offered, for the sake of the trial. I think all trials in progress will face this hurdle.


An interesting related point is the vaccination programme rolls out, the pool of unvaccinated people on whom to conduct trials of newer vaccines gets ever smaller.


More to the point, it's becoming rapidly skewed towards the young. For future vaccines it'll be gone altogether.

Arguably they should've kept funduffer blind while they administered the regular rollout vaccine. They're telling us it's fine to be vaccinated if you've had the virus, so presumably it should be equally fine to have more than one vaccine (provided they're not too bunched up). And provided the subject is still blind in the trial, it shouldn't compromise the trial, because it's a life event completely independent of that trial.


I was unblinded for the following reasons:

1. It is unethical to deny someone who may have had a placebo to have to reject a vaccine opportunity.

2. It was stated after I was unblinded that I should not have a second vaccine of a different type, as there was no medical evidence that having a second vaccine on top of the first was safe.

I remain on the trial unblinded, but mainly I suppose because I have to give a blood sample every 3 months until the end of the trial to monitor the decay rate of anti-bodies. Also, it is possible I may still contract Covid-19 in some form, or enough to be infectious and infect my wife, who is also on the trial, but as yet unblinded.

As to how the Novavax trial uses data from people who are unblinded, I am not sure. However, the trial has gathered enough data to apply for emergency authorisation from the MHRA, so it may be a moot point. I expect to see it approved in this way for use in the next few weeks, just like Pfizer and Astra vaccines are. Novavax are talking about manufacture from the Fujifilm Biotech plant on Teesside with UK distribution starting in April, so they must be confident they have enough data for this.

I agree it will be harder to conduct further trials in the UK, where vaccinations are happening so quickly. The Novavax trial hit the sweet spot. It was fully enrolled by November, ran through the huge January peak of cases, catching new variant cases into the trial. In parallel, the S African trial included cases with that variant. I think this is why the trial reached their interim data target so quickly, allowing them to apply for emergency authorisation.

FD
FD

UncleEbenezer
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Re: I'm done

#384484

Postby UncleEbenezer » February 7th, 2021, 2:45 pm

funduffer wrote:2. It was stated after I was unblinded that I should not have a second vaccine of a different type, as there was no medical evidence that having a second vaccine on top of the first was safe.

FD


That's what smells of double-standards from TPTB.

If you've had the virus, you'll have antibodies. If you've had a vaccine, you'll have antibodies. Whatever risk there may be - which I imagine is genuinely unknown - will apply to both cases. The difference is surely all about [expletive deleted]: the folks running your trial are applying a precautionary principle, while the government and NHS running the rollout are treating the risk as acceptable, at least when set against covid.

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Re: I'm done

#384517

Postby funduffer » February 7th, 2021, 4:47 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
funduffer wrote:2. It was stated after I was unblinded that I should not have a second vaccine of a different type, as there was no medical evidence that having a second vaccine on top of the first was safe.

FD


That's what smells of double-standards from TPTB.

If you've had the virus, you'll have antibodies. If you've had a vaccine, you'll have antibodies. Whatever risk there may be - which I imagine is genuinely unknown - will apply to both cases. The difference is surely all about [expletive deleted]: the folks running your trial are applying a precautionary principle, while the government and NHS running the rollout are treating the risk as acceptable, at least when set against covid.


You may be right. The note I got from the trial states that the advice to not have a second vaccine is “current National guidance from an independent expert group”. Not sure who this is.

From the trial point of view, although unblinding is not ideal, those unblinded will still provide useful data, which would be compromised by having a second vaccine. Many randomised controlled trials are not blinded for good reasons and are still good trials. They are just not “gold standard” for a drug like a vaccine. So I am sure the Novavax trail would prefer that those unblinded stay in the trial and do not have a second vaccine for good scientific reasons, rather than [expletive deleted].

dealtn
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Re: I'm done

#385989

Postby dealtn » February 12th, 2021, 12:11 pm

Well technically "She's done", not me.

My wife finally got vaccinated yesterday as part of the Ambulance workers roll-out. (Oxford/Astra-Zeneca).

She wasn't allowed to jab herself, but has now been given her interview appointment to join the vaccination team in 2 weeks time, and told it shouldn't be long after that before she can start work.

Today she has been temporarily unfurloughed from her school nurse job, for the day, to supervise the school vaccinations. One year group are having to miss lessons "at home" to come to school for a vaccination, before going back to school, at home!

Mike4
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Re: I'm done

#385998

Postby Mike4 » February 12th, 2021, 12:22 pm

dealtn wrote:Well technically "She's done", not me.

My wife finally got vaccinated yesterday as part of the Ambulance workers roll-out. (Oxford/Astra-Zeneca).

She wasn't allowed to jab herself, but has now been given her interview appointment to join the vaccination team in 2 weeks time, and told it shouldn't be long after that before she can start work.

Today she has been temporarily unfurloughed from her school nurse job, for the day, to supervise the school vaccinations. One year group are having to miss lessons "at home" to come to school for a vaccination, before going back to school, at home!


Eh? The COVID vaccinations are not approved for under 18s!

Presumably these are some other sort of vaccinations? Or is it for the teachers?

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Re: I'm done

#386017

Postby dealtn » February 12th, 2021, 12:45 pm

Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:Well technically "She's done", not me.

My wife finally got vaccinated yesterday as part of the Ambulance workers roll-out. (Oxford/Astra-Zeneca).

She wasn't allowed to jab herself, but has now been given her interview appointment to join the vaccination team in 2 weeks time, and told it shouldn't be long after that before she can start work.

Today she has been temporarily unfurloughed from her school nurse job, for the day, to supervise the school vaccinations. One year group are having to miss lessons "at home" to come to school for a vaccination, before going back to school, at home!


Eh? The COVID vaccinations are not approved for under 18s!

Presumably these are some other sort of vaccinations? Or is it for the teachers?


No these aren't Covid vaccinations. Yet again it seems some are either ignorant, or happy, for non-Covid healthcare provision to either stop or be considered not important.

The under 18s in our society receive a large number of vaccinations from birth to adulthood, and those that provide them are striving, in difficult circumstances, to continue that and ensure individuals, and society, aren't affected by non-Covid aliments and issues. No doubt the attendance today will be down on the "usual" and a number of individuals will require to be caught up with to ensure vaccine effectiveness.

vrdiver
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Re: I'm done

#386050

Postby vrdiver » February 12th, 2021, 1:44 pm

dealtn wrote:Yet again it seems some are either ignorant

You can take a poster out of PD, but you can't take PD out of the poster...

A personal comment, so feel free to dismiss it, but I find your posting style regularly aggressive. If this (or the other boards I see you on) were PD, I'd say nothing, but please, please lighten up. It would make for a much nicer experience for the rest of us.

When I read your post, because you had been talking about your wife's Covid-19 jab, and then moved straight on to talking about vaccinations at school without clarifying that you had changed the subject, I too initially assumed you were still talking about Covid.

All the best,
VRD

dealtn
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Re: I'm done

#386052

Postby dealtn » February 12th, 2021, 1:48 pm

vrdiver wrote:
dealtn wrote:Yet again it seems some are either ignorant

You can take a poster out of PD, but you can't take PD out of the poster...

A personal comment, so feel free to dismiss it, but I find your posting style regularly aggressive. If this (or the other boards I see you on) were PD, I'd say nothing, but please, please lighten up. It would make for a much nicer experience for the rest of us.

When I read your post, because you had been talking about your wife's Covid-19 jab, and then moved straight on to talking about vaccinations at school without clarifying that you had changed the subject, I too initially assumed you were still talking about Covid.

All the best,
VRD


Apologies to you (and all) in that case. I thought it common knowledge that Covid vaccinations aren't taking place outside of the priority groups, and certainly not for under 18s as they aren't approved or licensed to be. I don't post on PD, you can't take me out of it!.

I get frustrated that non-Covid health seems to be relatively ignored continually throughout this pandemic, and thought this was yet another example of it.

I will try harder.

Mike4
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Re: I'm done

#386055

Postby Mike4 » February 12th, 2021, 1:58 pm

dealtn wrote:
vrdiver wrote:
dealtn wrote:Yet again it seems some are either ignorant

You can take a poster out of PD, but you can't take PD out of the poster...

A personal comment, so feel free to dismiss it, but I find your posting style regularly aggressive. If this (or the other boards I see you on) were PD, I'd say nothing, but please, please lighten up. It would make for a much nicer experience for the rest of us.

When I read your post, because you had been talking about your wife's Covid-19 jab, and then moved straight on to talking about vaccinations at school without clarifying that you had changed the subject, I too initially assumed you were still talking about Covid.

All the best,
VRD


Apologies to you (and all) in that case. I thought it common knowledge that Covid vaccinations aren't taking place outside of the priority groups, and certainly not for under 18s as they aren't approved or licensed to be. I don't post on PD, you can't take me out of it!.

I get frustrated that non-Covid health seems to be relatively ignored continually throughout this pandemic, and thought this was yet another example of it.

I will try harder.


Totally understand, but this IS the Coronavirus board you are posting on!

Might be better to air your views on more general vaccination issues on "Health and Wellbeing" board, for example.

dealtn
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Re: I'm done

#386058

Postby dealtn » February 12th, 2021, 2:06 pm

Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
vrdiver wrote:You can take a poster out of PD, but you can't take PD out of the poster...

A personal comment, so feel free to dismiss it, but I find your posting style regularly aggressive. If this (or the other boards I see you on) were PD, I'd say nothing, but please, please lighten up. It would make for a much nicer experience for the rest of us.

When I read your post, because you had been talking about your wife's Covid-19 jab, and then moved straight on to talking about vaccinations at school without clarifying that you had changed the subject, I too initially assumed you were still talking about Covid.

All the best,
VRD


Apologies to you (and all) in that case. I thought it common knowledge that Covid vaccinations aren't taking place outside of the priority groups, and certainly not for under 18s as they aren't approved or licensed to be. I don't post on PD, you can't take me out of it!.

I get frustrated that non-Covid health seems to be relatively ignored continually throughout this pandemic, and thought this was yet another example of it.

I will try harder.


Totally understand, but this IS the Coronavirus board you are posting on!

Might be better to air your views on more general vaccination issues on "Health and Wellbeing" board, for example.


Ok, not that I have any immediately.

My comments, after those on the vaccinating of my wife, on which this thread is about, were general background about her unusual position, and the issues the children at school are having to deal with because of Covid. The location of discussing such is the Coronavirus board, as you put it.

The Mods and owners incidentally moved the Vaccine thread from the Health and Wellbeing board, to here.

vrdiver
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Re: I'm done

#386060

Postby vrdiver » February 12th, 2021, 2:08 pm

dealtn wrote:I get frustrated that non-Covid health seems to be relatively ignored continually throughout this pandemic,

Agreed. From longer waiting lists impacting quality of life for the patients (a friend has been waiting for a hip replacement, and the added delay has seen her in more pain as well as increased damage to her knee, due to the off-balance walk that she has developed to deal with the hip), to delayed treatments that will lead to poorer outcomes and reduced life expectancies, Covid-19's knock-on costs won't be tallied for years. The issue of mental wellbeing is getting some airtime, but not much actual support as far as I can see.

Covid "we're all in this together" works great for those who can retreat to a nice home and garden, perhaps with some local countryside, but is just not the same for those who truly feel isolated, financially stiffed, or fearful for their future. We'll also find out the impact of a year(+) of disruption on children's education when that starts to feed through to the real world (whether that is University courses having to offer pre-university catch-up courses, or employers struggling to find candidates who can keep up with their competition, again, it will be a number of years before this is visible and the impact properly assessed).

Anyhow, to get back on topic, I'm still waiting to be done, expecting a call sometime around April for the first jab.

VRD

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Re: I'm done

#386607

Postby scotia » February 14th, 2021, 11:23 am

vrdiver wrote:
Covid "we're all in this together" works great for those who can retreat to a nice home and garden, perhaps with some local countryside

Yes - some of us have been fortunate.

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Re: I'm done

#386644

Postby XFool » February 14th, 2021, 1:11 pm

I read this post yesterday on an adjacent thread. It rather surprised me, but I want to 'reply' here, for reasons which hopefully are obvious:

viewtopic.php?p=386226#p386226

madhatter wrote:In Greater London and not 70 until late this year. Today I read on a news channel that 65+ are to be targeted from next week in England, though some areas had already started. Two hours later an NHS letter popped through the letterbox which was my invitation.

It said I could either wait to be contacted by my GP surgery or sign up at a website, which I did, being able to choose a nearby centre, date and time, and also making another appointment 11 weeks hence for the 2nd jab. Interestingly the website still said it was for 70+ people, and asked for a mobile number or email address for confirmation. I provided the latter though nothing has come back to me yet. Probably doesn’t matter as I was given a 7-digit number for each appointment to show whoever it may concern.

The appointment method was broadly familiar to me, also in London, but I was surprised to hear about making two appointments via a website. I only made one and my vaccination card shows date and details of this vaccination but the second date is currently blank. Then, last night, I happened to look again at the text message I had originally received with the web link. I was surprised to see its exact wording: "You have been invited to book your COVID-19 vaccinations. Please click the link to book your vaccination times:"

In my original rush to get a vaccination appointment I hadn't registered the use of the plural in the text message.

So I just checked out the NHS booking link again, entered my details, and it confirmed the original appointment date and time and said:

What about my second vaccination?
The latest government guidance is that your second vaccination should be around 12 weeks after your first. Your practice will contact you about booking this nearer the time.

So patience is required!

UncleEbenezer
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Re: I'm done

#386672

Postby UncleEbenezer » February 14th, 2021, 3:04 pm

dealtn wrote:Today she has been temporarily unfurloughed from her school nurse job, for the day, to supervise the school vaccinations. One year group are having to miss lessons "at home" to come to school for a vaccination, before going back to school, at home!


That has the makings of a classic. ;)

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Re: I'm done

#386693

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 14th, 2021, 5:00 pm

I'm 52 and no-one has called me up yet :lol:


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