Quarantine Hotel is a Joke

[redsturgeon]

I visited the carpark of a quarantine hotel at Heathrow today. Here is my experience

First I had to beep my horn to warn the young woman standing in the middle of the hotel vehicle entrance to stop trying to take a photograph and allow me to enter.

Having turned into the area at the front of the hotel I then had to drive around her two friends and their child in a buggy to get to the barrier for the carpark at the rear.

I drove down to the rear of the htel into the carpark where at least 50 of the guest were milling around the carpark taking the air, some strolling, some jogging, some just taking the sun or vaping.

I parked my car and went toward the drop boxes where I needed to deposit some covid tests. About two metres away from the boxes a group of about 6 young men were hanging around an open window to a room in the hotel chatting to about another four young men inside...no masks...no distancing.

I looked around the carpark before I left and saw at least half a dozen cars that looked like they had stopped to have a chat with some of the guests.

There appeared to be no security presence to prevent any of this activity or indeed to prevent anyone leaving the hotel premises if they wished...perhaps to go to the McDonalds next door.

There was also no checking of any vehicles entering or leaving the premises.

This seems like a bit of a disaster to me.

[Lootman]

I visited the carpark of a quarantine hotel at Heathrow today. Here is my experience

First I had to beep my horn to warn the young woman standing in the middle of the hotel vehicle entrance to stop trying to take a photograph and allow me to enter.

Having turned into the area at the front of the hotel I then had to drive around her two friends and their child in a buggy to get to the barrier for the carpark at the rear.

I drove down to the rear of the htel into the carpark where at least 50 of the guest were milling around the carpark taking the air, some strolling, some jogging, some just taking the sun or vaping.

I parked my car and went toward the drop boxes where I needed to deposit some covid tests. About two metres away from the boxes a group of about 6 young men were hanging around an open window to a room in the hotel chatting to about another four young men inside...no masks...no distancing.

I looked around the carpark before I left and saw at least half a dozen cars that looked like they had stopped to have a chat with some of the guests.

There appeared to be no security presence to prevent any of this activity or indeed to prevent anyone leaving the hotel premises if they wished...perhaps to go to the McDonalds next door.

There was also no checking of any vehicles entering or leaving the premises.

This seems like a bit of a disaster to me.

.

I don't want to say that I told you this would never work. But I told you this would never work.

[zico]

I wondered why there has been absolutely no TV coverage of the new quarantine arrangements - this account explains why!

[Mike4]

I don't want to say that I told you this would never work. But I told you this would never work.

I agree, it will never work because there is no political will to make it work.

[Julian]

I don't want to say that I told you this would never work. But I told you this would never work.

I agree, it will never work because there is no political will to make it work.

I wonder how long it's going to last. Political debate inside Government currently ongoing about how soon they can abandon it and get away with presenting the discontinuation as "it has done its job" as opposed to being seen as a screeching u-turn?

Has anyone seen any reports on how the Scottish implementation is going? I know that is a blanket all-countries rather than just red-list countries scheme but as far as how locked down the people under quarantine are (e.g. allowed to leave their rooms to smoke) is the Scottish scheme broadly similar to the English one or more like Australia i.e. stricter than the English scheme?

- Julian

[Lootman]

I don't want to say that I told you this would never work. But I told you this would never work.

I agree, it will never work because there is no political will to make it work.

I wonder how long it's going to last. Political debate inside Government currently ongoing about how soon they can abandon it and get away with presenting the discontinuation as "it has done its job" as opposed to being seen as a screeching u-turn?

The obvious date to end it would be May 17th since that is when hospitality returns and so holidays can happen, either domestic or overseas.

The political will is not there because the popular support is not there.

[zico]

The political will is not there because the popular support is not there.

Not sure about that. Opinion polls clearly show popular support for tighter border controls.
If you're going to dismiss opinion polls as a valid source of data, then there isn't any credible source to estimate popular support.

[Lootman]

The political will is not there because the popular support is not there.

Not sure about that. Opinion polls clearly show popular support for tighter border controls. If you're going to dismiss opinion polls as a valid source of data, then there isn't any credible source to estimate popular support.

There may be majority support for the very limited controls the government has put in place i.e. forced quarantine for only a limited range of countries, most of which are fairly obscure. Especially if those controls are not aggressively enforced as seems to be the case.

You might get a very different outcome if you asked about such controls on people returning from every country, which would effectively rule out anyone having a foreign holiday this summer.

[zico]

There may be majority support for the very limited controls the government has put in place i.e. forced quarantine for only a limited range of countries, most of which are fairly obscure. Especially if those controls are not aggressively enforced as seems to be the case.

I'm sure there is very strong support for proper controls, especially as they only affect a tiny minority of travellers, and will safeguard the remaining 67 million of us who aren't gadding around the world - because there's a pandemic going on. But I also think people would be very much against the kind of "anything goes" approach that we seem to have - if it's not going to be done properly, what's the point? Of course, that assumes TV news will mention this shambles.

You might get a very different outcome if you asked about such controls on people returning from every country, which would effectively rule out anyone having a foreign holiday this summer.

I'm sure you would. People will of course be very keen this summer to ignore the pandemic because they're fed up with it, just jet off and bring lots of exciting new Covid variants back into the UK. The government can either save people from themselves by having proper quarantine, risking short-term unpopularity in order to protect the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad. Or they could just let it happen and use it as an excuse to blame the public for future outbreaks, and absolve themselves of any blame.

[Lootman]

The government can either save people from themselves by having proper quarantine, risking short-term unpopularity in order to protect the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad. Or they could just let it happen and use it as an excuse to blame the public for future outbreaks, and absolve themselves of any blame.

It is all very well saying that the government should make "unpopular" decisions. But ultimately they are supposed to be representing us and what we want. If it was the case that, say, 60% of voters wanted the ability to have a foreign holiday this summer without quarantine upon returning, then I would argue the government would have a voter mandate to do the popular thing.

They work for us and if we accept the infection risk from laxer border controls then they should accept that. Of course I have no idea whether it is 60% or not, but it could be.

[88V8]

[It is all very well saying that the government should make "unpopular" decisions. But ultimately they are supposed to be representing us and what we want.

I want no income tax. Do you reckon a majority would agree?

I want the hotel thing done properly. As in China.

V8

[Lootman]

[It is all very well saying that the government should make "unpopular" decisions. But ultimately they are supposed to be representing us and what we want.

I want no income tax. Do you reckon a majority would agree?

I want the hotel thing done properly. As in China.

If 60% of voters want no income tax then there would be a mandate for the government to abolish it and, to the extent necessary, replace the revenues from other kinds of taxation e.g. VAT. Or else scrap areas of public spending.

The Chinese people are terrified of their non-democratic government and will do as they are told. British and American people expect their governments to be responsive to their wants and needs, and are a lot harder to contain and push around. As in the cited example, they will rebel if pushed too far.

[GoSeigen]

the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad.

You might want to rethink your assumptions about this. UK residents took an average of 1.9 holidays abroad in 2019. I'd love to know how that translates into "the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad".

GS

[88V8]

UK residents took an average of 1.9 holidays abroad in 2019. I'd love to know how that translates into "the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad".

It might be that thing again, like the flights.... 10% of the people take 90% of the foreign holidays.

V8

[Lootman]

UK residents took an average of 1.9 holidays abroad in 2019. I'd love to know how that translates into "the huge majority of UK citizens who don't travel abroad".

It might be that thing again, like the flights.... 10% of the people take 90% of the foreign holidays.

Doubtful. Wealthier folks tend to take lavish long haul holidays, like to Seychelles or the Maldives. But those are only occasional trips due to the time and effort involved in getting there. I suspect that is dwarfed by the Magaluf and Benidorm brigade. In high summer it seems like half of Essex is there.

[Newroad]

Hi All.

My median number of regular trips (read "return flights") abroad in the years pre 2020 was 6.5 (the 0.5 because one happened every two years). Only one of those was for business. There were occasionally additional ad-hoc ones.

On a personal level, I find the inability to travel inconvenient, as you might imagine from the above. Nevertheless, I would still have supported (and for the present, continue to support) stricter border controls for the UK.

Further, 88V8 has it right above IMO - a simple majority in favour of some concept is not reason alone to try and implement it in law. There are various reasons this might not be desirable or practical. The population being in favour of something should be the starting point for consideration of the direction of travel (no pun intended) not the end point.

Regards, Newroad

[zico]

It is all very well saying that the government should make "unpopular" decisions. But ultimately they are supposed to be representing us and what we want. If it was the case that, say, 60% of voters wanted the ability to have a foreign holiday this summer without quarantine upon returning, then I would argue the government would have a voter mandate to do the popular thing.

They work for us.

No, they don't represent what we want, their job is to act in our best interests. You've previously argued on other threads that everyone should pay at least some tax otherwise the majority would always vote for people who promised to increase taxes on the rich and spend it on the poor. If we had simplistic questions like "who wants a foreign holiday this summer without quarantine" it logically follows we should also have simplistic questions like "Shall we change our tax system so rich people pay more in and poorer people get more benefit".

But it doesn't work like that. We vote for a government every few years and then they decide what's best for us, not what we'd like. That's in theory anyway.

[Mike4]

The political will is not there because the popular support is not there.

In opinion polls people generally say they want lower taxes, and in other polls they want better public services.

Why does the government not follow your principle and implement these, given there is clearly "popular support" for both?

[redsturgeon]

I visited the hotel again today. All quiet, looks like the message has been received by someone.

I noticed some press photographers hanging around ...just a couple of days too late.

John