The Lemon Fool

Surely the pharmaceuticals will be giving careful consideration of whether they should domicile outside of the EU given it restrictive practices?

Good for the UK as its more likely to promote UK based pharmaceutical investment expansion.

Wondering about the option of mixing vaccines, Pfizer first, Moderna/JJ/OA/etc. as a followup rather than two of the same brand?

Seems that the first dose gives reasonable protection, perhaps 66% type levels, whilst the second enhances that to 90%+ levels. Maybe combinations might be even more effective?

1nvest wrote:Surely the pharmaceuticals will be giving careful consideration of whether they should domicile outside of the EU given it restrictive practices?

Good for the UK as its more likely to promote UK based pharmaceutical investment expansion.

Wondering about the option of mixing vaccines, Pfizer first, Moderna/JJ/OA/etc. as a followup rather than two of the same brand?

Seems that the first dose gives reasonable protection, perhaps 66% type levels, whilst the second enhances that to 90%+ levels. Maybe combinations might be even more effective?

Based on current understanding many experts think that it is likely that might be the case (equal or even increased efficacy vs one-vaccine-only) but until clinical trials are run and the results analysed it is just that, a theory.

It was announced about a month or 6 weeks ago that recruitment of volunteers was starting for such trials. A friend of mine applied to enrol on one of those trials but I guess either the uptake was huge or the nearest trial centre was inconvenient because he didn’t get accepted. I think it is still far too soon for any of those trials to have reached any conclusions yet.

- Julian

It's stupid and deplorable.

I expect they've learned it from Boris&Co: announce something outrageous and self-destructive to push concessions. Or rather, half-learned it: they're not very good at it!

I trust we have sufficient vaccine in the country for the second doses.
If not that would be a major cock-up, as the 'blockade' has been well flagged by the [expletive deleted] Commission.

V8

1nvest wrote:Surely the pharmaceuticals will be giving careful consideration of whether they should domicile outside of the EU given it restrictive practices?

I do not expect that it will make any difference. This an emergency situation. The EU has been exporting large quantities of Covid vaccine:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... u-concedes

The EU is not proposing an export ban. Their proposal is to give themselves the power to temporarily restrict Covid vaccine exports in some cases, notably to us. The EU is a huge market, in an increasingly protectionist world. Pharmaceutical companies are going to want to be there.

88V8 wrote:I trust we have sufficient vaccine in the country for the second doses.
If not that would be a major cock-up, as the 'blockade' has been well flagged by the [expletive deleted] Commission.

V8

Logically I would say no we haven't. The purpose of delaying the second dose was to use them for first doses. If you kept a stockpile for second doses, you might as well just give the second dose out.

GeoffF100 wrote:The EU is not proposing an export ban. Their proposal is to give themselves the power to temporarily restrict Covid vaccine exports in some cases, notably to us.

When is a ban, not a ban? Is this a trick question?

Just hearing a "bureaucracy gone mad" report on local radio... apparently the EU will block the AZ vaccine produced at the Halix plant in Netherlands being distributed to the UK, but the EU hasn't approved it for distribution in the EU.

People here are not happy.

JamesMuenchen wrote:Just hearing a "bureaucracy gone mad" gone mad" report on local radio... apparently the EU will block the AZ vaccine produced at the Halix plant in Netherlands being distributed to the UK, but the EU hasn't approved it for distribution in the EU..

The EU has not decided to block anything. They are having a meeting to today. The member states will ultimately decide, not "bureaucracy". Here are some details:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ine-export

GeoffF100 wrote:

JamesMuenchen wrote:Just hearing a "bureaucracy gone mad" gone mad" report on local radio... apparently the EU will block the AZ vaccine produced at the Halix plant in Netherlands being distributed to the UK, but the EU hasn't approved it for distribution in the EU..

The EU has not decided anything. They are having a meeting to today. The member states will ultimately decide, not "bureaucracy". Here are some details:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ine-export

Did you even read it? Here's what it says:

On Wednesday the commission updated its export authorisation mechanism to allow officials to block shipments to countries with a high level of vaccination coverage or those that restrict exports through law or in their contracts with suppliers.
...
The commission will keep its new powers despite the lack of explicit backing of the leaders’ at the end of their summit, but diplomatic sources from within the most sceptical member states said they hoped the “stick will never be used”.

You do know that in the many levels of EU government the commission is the executive branch, right?

Edit: Sorry, I guess you are referring to this bit

The EU is threatening to block the export to the UK of an unspecified number of doses being made at an AstraZeneca plant in the Netherlands.

Before everyone gets too holier than thou, the UK introduced export controls on PPE equipment back in March 2020. I don't remember anyone complaining about that on the LF at the time.

The UK's expected shortage of vaccines in April is due to the Indian Government's export ban, not the EU's.

GeoffF100 wrote:The EU is not proposing an export ban. Their proposal is to give themselves the power to temporarily restrict Covid vaccine exports in some cases, notably to us. The EU is a huge market, in an increasingly protectionist world. Pharmaceutical companies are going to want to be there.

But in a much reduced manner, a EU adherent broom cupboard presence for access/gateway purposes rather than a core base.

India and China each with populations of 1.4 billion versus EU's 450 million

Or the Commonwealth entities 2.5 billion collective population.

The EU is in relative decline economically, has just seen 15% of its population opt to leave it along with 25%+ of its economic clout and political standing. Where its junk bonds such as Greece are priced to negative real yields its increasingly seen as a joke, a bad/failed experiment. Not the place that the big pharm's with risk of rapid changes in rules would wish to be IMO.

EU Exports of Covid vaccine 41.6 Million doses.
UK Exports of Covid vaccine 0.
US Exports of Covid vaccine 0.

JamesMuenchen wrote:

GeoffF100 wrote:

JamesMuenchen wrote:Just hearing a "bureaucracy gone mad" gone mad" report on local radio... apparently the EU will block the AZ vaccine produced at the Halix plant in Netherlands being distributed to the UK, but the EU hasn't approved it for distribution in the EU..

The EU has not decided anything. They are having a meeting to today. The member states will ultimately decide, not "bureaucracy". Here are some details:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ine-export

Did you even read it? Here's what it says:

On Wednesday the commission updated its export authorisation mechanism to allow officials to block shipments to countries with a high level of vaccination coverage or those that restrict exports through law or in their contracts with suppliers.
...
The commission will keep its new powers despite the lack of explicit backing of the leaders’ at the end of their summit, but diplomatic sources from within the most sceptical member states said they hoped the “stick will never be used”.

You do know that in the many levels of EU government the commission is the executive branch, right?

Edit: Sorry, I guess you are referring to this bit

The EU is threatening to block the export to the UK of an unspecified number of doses being made at an AstraZeneca plant in the Netherlands.

The EU has not blocked exports from the Halix plant. The Commission has been given the power to introduce export bans, but they are not going to do that without political support. The member states can overturn any ban with a qualified majority vote. If the European Parliament can fire the Commission if they are not happy. The Commission is called the executive of the EU, but they do not have the power of a government. The EU is not a federation.

Junker is not happy with the EU behaviour:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14450124/ ... r-hancock/

He is right, of course.

Sobraon wrote:EU Exports of Covid vaccine 41.6 Million doses.
UK Exports of Covid vaccine 0.
US Exports of Covid vaccine 0.

The EU has not exported any Vaccines.

Companies manufacturing the vaccines who are based in the EU member countries have exported those vaccines according to the contracts they signed with their international customers. (It's a bit like the olympics when the EU claimed the medals of the countries in the EU as 'EU medals')

If the EU were to send some of the vaccines they have bought (from wherever) to outside the EU, then you could say they have exported vaccines.

HTHCTFY
May Lix

Maylix wrote:The EU has not exported any Vaccines.

Companies manufacturing the vaccines who are based in the EU member countries have exported those vaccines according to the contracts they signed with their international customers. (It's a bit like the olympics when the EU claimed the medals of the countries in the EU as 'EU medals')

If the EU were to send some of the vaccines they have bought (from wherever) to outside the EU, then you could say they have exported vaccines.

So Britain does not have any Olympic medals either. There are medals won by British athletes, but they are not British medals? So goods that are manufactured on British soil and exported are not British exports? So only goods that are imported into Britain and re-exported from Britain count as British exports? That is certainly not standard English usage. You will have a lot of problems understanding trade statistics.

GeoffF100 wrote:

Maylix wrote:The EU has not exported any Vaccines.

Companies manufacturing the vaccines who are based in the EU member countries have exported those vaccines according to the contracts they signed with their international customers. (It's a bit like the olympics when the EU claimed the medals of the countries in the EU as 'EU medals')

If the EU were to send some of the vaccines they have bought (from wherever) to outside the EU, then you could say they have exported vaccines.

So Britain does not have any Olympic medals either. There are medals won by British athletes, but they are not British medals? So goods that are manufactured on British soil and exported are not British exports? So only goods that are imported into Britain and re-exported from Britain count as British exports? That is certainly not standard English usage. You will have a lot of problems understanding trade statistics.

You were the one differentiating between the EU and Member States above. Please make your mind up.

By the way, 'The EU' has not bought any vaccine either. It negotiated the contracts under Joint Procurement but the individual Member States are doing the ordering and the buying. They are even trading the doses allocated under the Joint Procurement amongst themselves according to their current needs.

I just tried booking a second dose via the NHS site
https://www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-v ... nhs-number

The first date offered is May 1st, which is exactly 12 weeks after the first.

I've heard of people getting earlier dates. Perhaps they were to make up jabbee shortfalls on the day.
Is this usual - exactly 12 weeks - or are we now skating on thin ice as regards vaccine supplies?

V8

JamesMuenchen wrote:You were the one differentiating between the EU and Member States above. Please make your mind up.

I do not determine English language usage. "EU" can mean the geographic area of the member states. It can also refer to a political entity, usually the Commission, but it can also refer to the European Council, the Council of the EU or all of the EU institutions collectively. It can also refer to all the member states collectively (along with the relevant political entities). If the writer understands how the EU works and uses language precisely, you should usually be able to infer what is meant from the context. Otherwise, confusion can reign. It is best to be explicit, but that can be long winded.

JamesMuenchen wrote:'The EU' has not bought any vaccine either. It negotiated the contracts under Joint Procurement but the individual Member States are doing the ordering and the buying. They are even trading the doses allocated under the Joint Procurement amongst themselves according to their current needs..

In that context, it should be clear that "The EU" means all the member states, with the support of the Commission. Again, you need to understand how the system works in order to understand fully what is meant. Latvia currently has a big problem because they ordered all their vaccine from AZ.