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Be grateful

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Dod101
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Be grateful

#406962

Postby Dod101 » April 26th, 2021, 8:21 am

There has been an awful lot of doomsters on these Boards amongst the thousands of posts so I was heartened to read in the Sunday Times magazine yesterday the column from Melanie Reid. She is a Scottish journalist who has contributed to the mag for years and who in 2010 had a riding accident which left her as a tetraplegic. She tells us she has just had her second vaccine. She said as a result she was overwhelmed with gratitude to everyone -scientists, manufacturers, volunteers, civil servants, politicians, the whole vast system of procurement and NHS delivery which has made her feel safe.

She then gets to the nub of the point I want to make.

'And please, keyboard warriors lucky enough to be in possession of full health, don't quibble and snark about all the things that have gone wrong.Enough has gone right and that's what counts right now'

I don't want to sound smarmy about it but some ought to listen to that and think on't.

Dod

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Re: Be grateful

#406991

Postby swill453 » April 26th, 2021, 9:27 am

Dod101 wrote:don't quibble and snark about all the things that have gone wrong

This could rapidly get political and this isn't the board for it, but if I was to take exception to our elected prime minister allegedly uttering the words ascribed to him on the front page of today's Daily Mail, would you class that as "quibbling and snarking"?

Scott.

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Re: Be grateful

#407012

Postby redsturgeon » April 26th, 2021, 10:34 am

Yes let's not get political here, there is another place for that.

I am more than happy to welcome the success we have seen with both the vaccine discovery and roll out which one could say is "world class". Also our prowess at genetic sequencing needs a shout out as does the sterling work put in by our understaffed and under equipped NHS and care workers. While we are on the being grateful kick, a shout out to all essential/key workers is also in order.

To balance out the above though, there is little doubt that avoidable mistakes were made earlier on and I hope we are not living in a society where any questioning of the actions (or inaction) of the powers that be is met with opprobrium rather than welcomed as justifiable scrutiny in order to learn lessons for the future.

John

Dod101
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Re: Be grateful

#407018

Postby Dod101 » April 26th, 2021, 10:42 am

swill453 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:don't quibble and snark about all the things that have gone wrong

This could rapidly get political and this isn't the board for it, but if I was to take exception to our elected prime minister allegedly uttering the words ascribed to him on the front page of today's Daily Mail, would you class that as "quibbling and snarking"?

Scott.


I am not going to get political and since I do not read the Daily Mail, I could not comment anyway.

Dod

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Re: Be grateful

#407019

Postby 88V8 » April 26th, 2021, 10:42 am

I always read Melanie Reid's piece in the mag. She inspires me never to get on a horse.

Yes, don't we love running our country down.
The pathetic fuss about wallpaper.
I could say something about India and the way it and other third world countries are run but it would be o/t here.
A friend of ours in the village took presents to the volunteers in our local vaccination centre. Many people cheerfully giving up many hours.

V8

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Re: Be grateful

#407028

Postby Nimrod103 » April 26th, 2021, 10:52 am

redsturgeon wrote:Yes let's not get political here, there is another place for that.

I am more than happy to welcome the success we have seen with both the vaccine discovery and roll out which one could say is "world class". Also our prowess at genetic sequencing needs a shout out as does the sterling work put in by our understaffed and under equipped NHS and care workers. While we are on the being grateful kick, a shout out to all essential/key workers is also in order.

To balance out the above though, there is little doubt that avoidable mistakes were made earlier on and I hope we are not living in a society where any questioning of the actions (or inaction) of the powers that be is met with opprobrium rather than welcomed as justifiable scrutiny in order to learn lessons for the future.

John


But it was always going to be a case of finding a balance between locking down the streets to prevent mixing and infection, with shutting down the economy which would prevent us funding the NHS, and throw millions out of work.

One can quibble about when different measures had been introduced, but the major factor in the spread of Covid through the UK population has been the poor behaviour of the population in obeying our relatively relaxed lockdown rules. Most of the infected (symptomatic or not) seem to have continued their normal lives as if nothing much was different.

At the end of the day, lockdowns were designed to enable the NHS to cope, which it did, unlike India where health services have broken down and many who could survive do not. It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.

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Re: Be grateful

#407038

Postby mark88man » April 26th, 2021, 11:05 am

Dod101 wrote:There has been an awful lot of doomsters on these Boards amongst the thousands of posts so I was heartened to read in the Sunday Times magazine yesterday the column from Melanie Reid. She is a Scottish journalist who has contributed to the mag for years and who in 2010 had a riding accident which left her as a tetraplegic. She tells us she has just had her second vaccine. She said as a result she was overwhelmed with gratitude to everyone -scientists, manufacturers, volunteers, civil servants, politicians, the whole vast system of procurement and NHS delivery which has made her feel safe.

She then gets to the nub of the point I want to make.

'And please, keyboard warriors lucky enough to be in possession of full health, don't quibble and snark about all the things that have gone wrong.Enough has gone right and that's what counts right now'

I don't want to sound smarmy about it but some ought to listen to that and think on't.

Dod


Without getting political I can think of well over 100,000 reasons why enough has NOT gone right. Just because something is ending doesn't mean it wasn't handled atrociously and no amount of air-brushing the details and what-aboutery will remove that fact. At peak government inaction last year critics were told to knuckle down and pull together for the good of the country, and now its all nearly over we find we are being that our actual foresight (ie what we said should be done, and what was done but too late) is bring dismissed as moaning/hindsight

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Re: Be grateful

#407039

Postby XFool » April 26th, 2021, 11:13 am

Nimrod103 wrote:At the end of the day, lockdowns were designed to enable the NHS to cope, which it did, unlike India where health services have broken down and many who could survive do not. It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.

And yet you yourself just gave India as an example of what can happen... :roll:

Computer says: "I could do better than that!"

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Re: Be grateful

#407044

Postby servodude » April 26th, 2021, 11:23 am

XFool wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:At the end of the day, lockdowns were designed to enable the NHS to cope, which it did, unlike India where health services have broken down and many who could survive do not. It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.

And yet you yourself just gave India as an example of what can happen... :roll:

Computer says: "I could do better than that!"


I wonder if there's commentators in India spouting the classics:
"they're all old and were going to die anyway"
"it's them or the economy"
"it's just the flu - where are the excess deaths?!"
"It's seasonal, can't be helped... it will be gone on it's own come spring!?"
- but I think they're a bit too busy for that

-sd

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Re: Be grateful

#407045

Postby Nimrod103 » April 26th, 2021, 11:23 am

XFool wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:At the end of the day, lockdowns were designed to enable the NHS to cope, which it did, unlike India where health services have broken down and many who could survive do not. It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.

And yet you yourself just gave India as an example of what can happen... :roll:

Computer says: "I could do better than that!"


Indeed. But India is a place where social distancing is not just impossible, but frowned upon. The Indian Govt has not taken firm steps to prevent large gatherings, probably for the simple reason that they would be ignored. Most people there cannot isolate if infected, as they would starve. The Indian health system is grossly underfunded, with widespread corruption. And on top of that they have their own new variant virus. I would not have wanted the UK to go down the India route. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is.

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Re: Be grateful

#407046

Postby Nimrod103 » April 26th, 2021, 11:25 am

servodude wrote:
XFool wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:At the end of the day, lockdowns were designed to enable the NHS to cope, which it did, unlike India where health services have broken down and many who could survive do not. It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.

And yet you yourself just gave India as an example of what can happen... :roll:

Computer says: "I could do better than that!"


I wonder if there's commentators in India spouting the classics:
"they're all old and were going to die anyway"
"it's them or the economy"
"it's just the flu - where are the excess deaths?!"
"It's seasonal, can't be helped... it will be gone on it's own come spring!?"
- but I think they're a bit too busy for that

-sd


Well it clearly isn't seasonal, as it is summer in Delhi.

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Re: Be grateful

#407052

Postby servodude » April 26th, 2021, 11:37 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
servodude wrote:
XFool wrote:And yet you yourself just gave India as an example of what can happen... :roll:

Computer says: "I could do better than that!"


I wonder if there's commentators in India spouting the classics:
"they're all old and were going to die anyway"
"it's them or the economy"
"it's just the flu - where are the excess deaths?!"
"It's seasonal, can't be helped... it will be gone on it's own come spring!?"
- but I think they're a bit too busy for that

-sd


Well it clearly isn't seasonal, as it is summer in Delhi.


It was summer during the waves in the southern hemisphere last year while that was being regularly rolled out in various places/boards/papers elsewhere as a reason for inaction.

-sd

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Re: Be grateful

#407054

Postby Mike4 » April 26th, 2021, 11:37 am

mark88man wrote:Without getting political I can think of well over 100,000 reasons why enough has NOT gone right. Just because something is ending doesn't mean it wasn't handled atrociously and no amount of air-brushing the details and what-aboutery will remove that fact. At peak government inaction last year critics were told to knuckle down and pull together for the good of the country, and now its all nearly over we find we are being that our actual foresight (ie what we said should be done, and what was done but too late) is bring dismissed as moaning/hindsight



^^^This^^^

I'm entirely happy to agree there are aspects of this pandemic have been handled very well (vaccines for example) but that does not mean we should/must not raise the aspects which were handled so very badly, simply for fear of being labelled 'moaners'. This is what these coronavirus boards here are for, not for endless rounds of congratulating the government nd those in control on a job well done, regardless of how well they did/are doing.

I do think the OP mistakes critical analysis for moaning. If s/he does not want to read discussion about how the things that were not done so well could have been/be done better, then please don't read the discussion boards set up for exactly that purpose.

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Re: Be grateful

#407056

Postby Julian » April 26th, 2021, 11:38 am

One can still look at what could have been done better whilst also being grateful for what went well. For instance when I express frustration now and then about the chaotic roll-out of test/trace/isolate in the early days, with the isolate bit still not good enough in my opinion, does that somehow magically nullify my admiration for the science that bought us the early sequencing of the virus itself, the subsequent acceptably accurate and fast tests, the vaccines, the huge amount of rigorous analysis right in the midst of the crisis to evaluate the efficacy various therapeutic interventions at all stages of the disease, the fact that the NHS didn't collapse under such enormous strain, the fact that the UK generates about 50% of all the SARS-CoV-2 sequences in the world, the organisation and efficiency behind the vaccine roll-out, the (in my view) intelligent and at the time quite brave decision to extend the vaccine dosing interval? Of course it doesn't. Just because I am infuriated about what went on under Dido Harding's watch especially in the early days does that mean I am not in awe of what Kate Bingham achieved? Again, of course not.

The characterisation that any negative talk from a Brit is somehow because we love to be losers, love to talk down our country etc also concerns me, in fact I could turn that around and say that the people making those comments are the one's talking their country down whereas those who believe that progress is very often made by learning from mistakes and correcting them are the ones who, in trying to identify areas for improvement in the future, are the ones really striving for world-beating performance with a belief that we are capable of it in a huge number of areas. I suppose the difference there is between those who do just criticise without offering alternatives vs those who see mistakes that have been made in the past but do at least have suggestions for how those mistakes could be avoided in the future.

- Julian

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Re: Be grateful

#407057

Postby Dod101 » April 26th, 2021, 11:40 am

Nimrod103 wrote:It still remains that we have trashed our economy in order to protect a lot of unproductive people, who had little life expectancy anyway.


What an appalling attitude to take. Common humanity does not enter into your thoughts I assume? If you are lucky (or I assume you will consider yourself to be unlucky enough) you will also survive to be part of the unproductive part of the economy. What are you going to do about it. Seek euthanasia?

Dod

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Re: Be grateful

#407059

Postby Dod101 » April 26th, 2021, 11:44 am

Mike4 wrote:
mark88man wrote:Without getting political I can think of well over 100,000 reasons why enough has NOT gone right. Just because something is ending doesn't mean it wasn't handled atrociously and no amount of air-brushing the details and what-aboutery will remove that fact. At peak government inaction last year critics were told to knuckle down and pull together for the good of the country, and now its all nearly over we find we are being that our actual foresight (ie what we said should be done, and what was done but too late) is bring dismissed as moaning/hindsight



^^^This^^^

I'm entirely happy to agree there are aspects of this pandemic have been handled very well (vaccines for example) but that does not mean we should/must not raise the aspects which were handled so very badly, simply for fear of being labelled 'moaners'. This is what these coronavirus boards here are for, not for endless rounds of congratulating the government nd those in control on a job well done, regardless of how well they did/are doing.

I do think the OP mistakes critical analysis for moaning. If s/he does not want to read discussion about how the things that were not done so well could have been/be done better, then please don't read the discussion boards set up for exactly that purpose.


I am the OP and am perfectly happy to be referred to as 'he'. All I was trying to do is bring a bit of balance. I do not think that anyone has ever suggested that things have all gone as well as they might. I have noticed no 'rounds of congratulating the government nd(sic) those in control on a job well done.' I think that some balance will do no harm. It is so very easy to pick holes in what has happened but since it is not happened on that scale in any of our lifetimes it is not surprising that things did not go as well as they (or might not) have if done differently.

Dod

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Re: Be grateful

#407063

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 26th, 2021, 11:54 am

Dod101 wrote:There has been an awful lot of doomsters on these Boards amongst the thousands of posts so I was heartened to read in the Sunday Times magazine yesterday the column from Melanie Reid. She is a Scottish journalist who has contributed to the mag for years and who in 2010 had a riding accident which left her as a tetraplegic. She tells us she has just had her second vaccine. She said as a result she was overwhelmed with gratitude to everyone -scientists, manufacturers, volunteers, civil servants, politicians, the whole vast system of procurement and NHS delivery which has made her feel safe.

She then gets to the nub of the point I want to make.

'And please, keyboard warriors lucky enough to be in possession of full health, don't quibble and snark about all the things that have gone wrong. Enough has gone right and that's what counts right now'

I don't want to sound smarmy about it but some ought to listen to that and think on't.

Dod

Last Saturday morning I raised a post about a young lady who suffers with PTSD after a childhood living in war torn Rwanda. I was pleasantly surprised by the responses it received. I took away some reassurance from that.

But ... I have to confess I have a small internal issue that I struggle with. After a lifetime spent struggling with mental health issues and sinking into a very dark area I find myself getting cross with others who have not had to face the same issues but still don't seem happy with their life. I know ... I know ... it's their choice. I get that. But I still get very cross with them. I feel sad too. They have something which is just so unimaginable for me. Good health.

There are always going to be those who are worse off than me. And that makes me sad. But it also reminds me how lucky I am.

Sometimes [expletive deleted] just happens. No rhyme, no reason, no song. It just is.

I would say this though. I now, without fear of reproach surround myself with positive people. I simply do not have the time left to offer support for those who feel life's dealt them a crappy hand. And it often does. I sympathise with them. And of course I empathise. But I cannot donate my time to a lost cause.

I know that smacks of passive aggression and I know it's not thoughtful. I know many negative people need support. The one thing that has pervaded in my life is a positive attitude. Without which I would have not survived my journey.

There are many on these boards who offer kind words and I gravitate towards reading their posts.

I'm vaguely aware that life isn't black or white. It's a grey area in between and it's billions of shades of grey.

I'll never be a perfect human being. I'll never meet the standards I set myself. And there will be times when I need to be reminded to put my feet back on the ground. I wont mention any names but there are some posters who do know how to embrace the English language (Scottish, Welsh and Irish too) and correct my errors and failings kindly. Feedback and guidance is always beneficial for someone like me, but the delivery vehicle often tends to block the message. I'm working on that too. A work in progress :roll:

I think Dod was correct to remind us all, including himself, that we are masters of our own happiness. We can all have down days too. Been there. Still do the odd one now and again.

Many will argue this forum is about investment. I'd agree. But I'd augment and suggest investment can and should be about people too. There are many on these board who exercise soft investment skills. Positive attitudes reflected in their posts.

I enjoy reading their posts.

AiY

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Re: Be grateful

#407067

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 26th, 2021, 11:59 am

redsturgeon wrote:Yes let's not get political here, there is another place for that.

I am more than happy to welcome the success we have seen with both the vaccine discovery and roll out which one could say is "world class". Also our prowess at genetic sequencing needs a shout out as does the sterling work put in by our understaffed and under equipped NHS and care workers. While we are on the being grateful kick, a shout out to all essential/key workers is also in order.

To balance out the above though, there is little doubt that avoidable mistakes were made earlier on and I hope we are not living in a society where any questioning of the actions (or inaction) of the powers that be is met with opprobrium rather than welcomed as justifiable scrutiny in order to learn lessons for the future.

John

Here here. Completely agree. Many of us have survived and will enjoy some longevity. I'm not sure it gets any better than that does it?

In my line of work I get a large number of people who tell me what I should have done "after the event". I wish I had the same number telling me what to do "before the event" :lol: .

AiY

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Re: Be grateful

#407070

Postby Julian » April 26th, 2021, 12:05 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
mark88man wrote:Without getting political I can think of well over 100,000 reasons why enough has NOT gone right. Just because something is ending doesn't mean it wasn't handled atrociously and no amount of air-brushing the details and what-aboutery will remove that fact. At peak government inaction last year critics were told to knuckle down and pull together for the good of the country, and now its all nearly over we find we are being that our actual foresight (ie what we said should be done, and what was done but too late) is bring dismissed as moaning/hindsight



^^^This^^^

I'm entirely happy to agree there are aspects of this pandemic have been handled very well (vaccines for example) but that does not mean we should/must not raise the aspects which were handled so very badly, simply for fear of being labelled 'moaners'. This is what these coronavirus boards here are for, not for endless rounds of congratulating the government nd those in control on a job well done, regardless of how well they did/are doing.

I do think the OP mistakes critical analysis for moaning. If s/he does not want to read discussion about how the things that were not done so well could have been/be done better, then please don't read the discussion boards set up for exactly that purpose.


I am the OP and am perfectly happy to be referred to as 'he'. All I was trying to do is bring a bit of balance. I do not think that anyone has ever suggested that things have all gone as well as they might. I have noticed no 'rounds of congratulating the government nd(sic) those in control on a job well done.' I think that some balance will do no harm. It is so very easy to pick holes in what has happened but since it is not happened on that scale in any of our lifetimes it is not surprising that things did not go as well as they (or might not) have if done differently.

Dod

It's a fair point. Maybe someone should start some sort of "The most impressive aspects of the UK's Pandemic Response" thread to capture that positive counterbalance. Since I know how easy it can be to misread tone in a forum post I should maybe point out that that definitely wasn't intended to be a facetious comment. I've actually seen such a thing happen quite a few times on forums for software products when the developers has spent ages on a major new release only to be met by a barrage of essentially "this bit isn't exactly the same as it was before, I don't like it" negative comments from forum users so someone steps in to create a "why I love version 2.0" thread to try (usually in vain in my experience!) to create a counterbalance to all of the negativity.

Of course one can also learn from positives - "wow, we did this really well but what tweaks could we make to be even better and truly be best in the world" so what went well can also be a starting point for doing better the next time. Maybe it's a bit like that last burst of motivation when one is in sight of the finishing line. I certainly find myself being very subject to that "I've got to very good, now I'm really motivated to get to even better" type of motivation; once I achieve a certain level of competence at something my motivation to improve actually increases rather than levels off.

- Julian

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Re: Be grateful

#407072

Postby Dod101 » April 26th, 2021, 12:10 pm

Julian wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:

^^^This^^^

I'm entirely happy to agree there are aspects of this pandemic have been handled very well (vaccines for example) but that does not mean we should/must not raise the aspects which were handled so very badly, simply for fear of being labelled 'moaners'. This is what these coronavirus boards here are for, not for endless rounds of congratulating the government nd those in control on a job well done, regardless of how well they did/are doing.

I do think the OP mistakes critical analysis for moaning. If s/he does not want to read discussion about how the things that were not done so well could have been/be done better, then please don't read the discussion boards set up for exactly that purpose.


I am the OP and am perfectly happy to be referred to as 'he'. All I was trying to do is bring a bit of balance. I do not think that anyone has ever suggested that things have all gone as well as they might. I have noticed no 'rounds of congratulating the government nd(sic) those in control on a job well done.' I think that some balance will do no harm. It is so very easy to pick holes in what has happened but since it is not happened on that scale in any of our lifetimes it is not surprising that things did not go as well as they (or might not) have if done differently.

Dod

It's a fair point. Maybe someone should start some sort of "The most impressive aspects of the UK's Pandemic Response" thread to capture that positive counterbalance. Since I know how easy it can be to misread tone in a forum post I should maybe point out that that definitely wasn't intended to be a facetious comment. I've actually seen such a thing happen quite a few times on forums for software products when the developers has spent ages on a major new release only to be met by a barrage of essentially "this bit isn't exactly the same as it was before, I don't like it" negative comments from forum users so someone steps in to create a "why I love version 2.0" thread to try (usually in vain in my experience!) to create a counterbalance to all of the negativity.

Of course one can also learn from positives - "wow, we did this really well but what tweaks could we make to be even better and truly be best in the world" so what went well can also be a starting point for doing better the next time. Maybe it's a bit like that last burst of motivation when one is in sight of the finishing line. I certainly find myself being very subject to that "I've got to very good, now I'm really motivated to get to even better" type of motivation; once I achieve a certain level of competence at something my motivation to improve actually increases rather than levels off.

- Julian


Too many quotes here for which I am sorry but all I want to say is thanks to Julian for expanding on my feelings.

Dod


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