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Design of Face Masks

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
feder1
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Design of Face Masks

#408883

Postby feder1 » May 3rd, 2021, 5:17 am

Watching the F1 race last night on TV from Portugal, the presenter,s face mask kept dropping to expose the nose and needed persistant raising back into position.

This happened to about half the interviewees. They used fancy F1 designer masks. We were told not to keep fingering the face mask.

Notable was Domenicali,s mask (F1 top man), who used a cheap blue disposable like the one I got given for my second jab. His mask stayed on happily.

How come science and engineers, which are wonderful of course has not been able to make a really decent effective mask which stays on?

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Re: Design of Face Masks

#408899

Postby Gersemi » May 3rd, 2021, 9:13 am

The problem as I see it is combining different aspects. I agree that the blue disposable kind stay up over your nose reasonably well, but I find they 'bag' at the sides allowing air to escape that way. I usually use reusable types that are pleated, they fit better, but still bag a bit at the sides. The best ones for fit I have are some that I made myself at the start of the pandemic, from hankerchiefs and elastic, they are very snug fitting, but are only one type of material, I understand that for best protection at least two types of material are preferable. In addition you want a mask that is easy to put on, reasonably comfortable and looks reasonably good (that might not matter to you, but most people do care a bit about the look, particularly if they are going to be on telly!).

88V8
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Re: Design of Face Masks

#408910

Postby 88V8 » May 3rd, 2021, 9:36 am

Single-layer masks, pretty useless.
But sometimes pretty if that matters.

They do need a nose clip and it needs to be crimped up.
The gap around the sides substantially undermines effectiveness. Indeed, it's said that it can sometimes make things worse...

Masks have been assumed to be effective in obstructing forward travel of viral particles. Considering those positioned next to or behind a mask wearer, there have been farther transmission of virus-laden fluid particles from masked individuals than from unmasked individuals, by means of “several leakage jets, including intense backward and downwards jets that may present major hazards,” and a “potentially dangerous leakage jet of up to several meters.” (8) All masks were thought to reduce forward airflow by 90% or more over wearing no mask. However, Schlieren imaging showed that both surgical masks and cloth masks had farther brow jets (unfiltered upward airflow past eyebrows) than not wearing any mask at all, 182 mm and 203 mm respectively, vs none discernible with no mask. Backward unfiltered airflow was found to be strong with all masks compared to not masking.

For both N95 and surgical masks, it was found that expelled particles from 0.03 to 1 micron were deflected around the edges of each mask, and that there was measurable penetration of particles through the filter of each mask.


We have worn blue masks fairly assiduously, and will continue so long as it's 'the thing to do'. But one can't help wondering whether distance and ventilation have been more effective in transmission control.

Paper, with citations https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

Perhaps fortunately, this viewpoint has no media traction. One wouldn't want to spread the idea that the govt's control measures are in any way tosh.

V8

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Re: Design of Face Masks

#408915

Postby Mike4 » May 3rd, 2021, 9:40 am

feder1 wrote:How come science and engineers, which are wonderful of course has not been able to make a really decent effective mask which stays on?


I'm sure they could and have, but people in general are not willing to spend £75 on one.

The F1 teams however, I agree should have a mask designer on the team as this sort of money is peanuts and impressions count. F1 team members should wear good masks that work properly, money is no object. I didn't see the prog but sounds to me as though they have really dropped the ball on this one!

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Re: Design of Face Masks

#408918

Postby Lanark » May 3rd, 2021, 9:48 am

88V8 wrote:Single-layer masks, pretty useless.
But sometimes pretty if that matters.

They do need a nose clip and it needs to be crimped up.
The gap around the sides substantially undermines effectiveness. Indeed, it's said that it can sometimes make things worse...

Masks have been assumed to be effective in obstructing forward travel of viral particles. Considering those positioned next to or behind a mask wearer, there have been farther transmission of virus-laden fluid particles from masked individuals than from unmasked individuals, by means of “several leakage jets, including intense backward and downwards jets that may present major hazards,” and a “potentially dangerous leakage jet of up to several meters.” (8) All masks were thought to reduce forward airflow by 90% or more over wearing no mask. However, Schlieren imaging showed that both surgical masks and cloth masks had farther brow jets (unfiltered upward airflow past eyebrows) than not wearing any mask at all, 182 mm and 203 mm respectively, vs none discernible with no mask. Backward unfiltered airflow was found to be strong with all masks compared to not masking.

For both N95 and surgical masks, it was found that expelled particles from 0.03 to 1 micron were deflected around the edges of each mask, and that there was measurable penetration of particles through the filter of each mask.


We have worn blue masks fairly assiduously, and will continue so long as it's 'the thing to do'. But one can't help wondering whether distance and ventilation have been more effective in transmission control.

Paper, with citations https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

Perhaps fortunately, this viewpoint has no media traction. One wouldn't want to spread the idea that the govt's control measures are in any way tosh.

V8

Overall, we rate Technocracy News a far-right tin foil hat Conspiracy site that promotes quackery-level pseudoscience. We also rate them Very Low in factual reporting due to the routine publication of false information, as evidenced by numerous failed fact checks.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/technocracy-news/

PhaseThree

Re: Design of Face Masks

#408938

Postby PhaseThree » May 3rd, 2021, 10:33 am

Mike4 wrote:
feder1 wrote:How come science and engineers, which are wonderful of course has not been able to make a really decent effective mask which stays on?


I'm sure they could and have, but people in general are not willing to spend £75 on one.

The F1 teams however, I agree should have a mask designer on the team as this sort of money is peanuts and impressions count. F1 team members should wear good masks that work properly, money is no object. I didn't see the prog but sounds to me as though they have really dropped the ball on this one!


There seems to be a number of different masks being warn by the F1 crowd. Most seem to be wearing branded variants of U-Mask facemasks. These don't seem to stay put very well but are sufficiently complex and techy to tick many F1 boxes, and are made by an Italian design firm.

"They feature a four-layer, replaceable filtration system, which includes a self-sanitizing and anti-proliferative BioLayer. The masks are also environmentally friendly, with a washable Econyl Lycra cover made from recycled ocean plastics."

The other choices yesterday seemed to be the standard disposable blue version and one I hadn't seem before, warn by Hamilton and branded as Pure-MSK. This looked to work well, with no gap etc but is eye-wateringly expensive for a disposable mask (so very F1)

https://pure-msk.com/masks.html

9873210
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Re: Design of Face Masks

#408983

Postby 9873210 » May 3rd, 2021, 1:37 pm

In my experience most masks are too short. The ones that go well under my chin when covering my nose stay in place. That way the bottom of the loops are pulling up more than back.

I've seen what you mention watching Rugby where most of them are big blokes. Time to watch some horse racing and see how masks work on jockeys.

88V8
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Re: Design of Face Masks

#409033

Postby 88V8 » May 3rd, 2021, 5:02 pm

Lanark wrote:
88V8 wrote:Single-layer masks, pretty useless.
But sometimes pretty if that matters.

They do need a nose clip and it needs to be crimped up.
The gap around the sides substantially undermines effectiveness.
V8

Overall, we rate Technocracy News a far-right tin foil hat Conspiracy site that promotes quackery-level pseudoscience. We also rate them Very Low in factual reporting due to the routine publication of false information, as evidenced by numerous failed fact checks.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/technocracy-news/


Thankyou for that. I shall be more dubious of them in future.
But I stand by my comments about clips & gaps.

V8


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