The Lemon Fool

My wife and I have had both jabs of AZ vaccine. She still does not trust the effectiveness and is scared to leave the house. I told her that today it was reported by Public Health England that the AZ vaccine has been found to have 90% effectiveness in over 65’s. She says how does PHE know this. She feels that many over 65’s may stay at home and not be part of the statistics and wants to know why those who have has both jabs and are going out would bother to get tested anyway.

Can anyone tell me why you would get a test if you are fully vaccinated? I need to know so I can give her confidence to go out and not worry. Thanks

We are both fully jabbed, but still regularly take lateral flow tests.

Our reasoning is that just because we've been jabbed, we do not assume we will not catch it, and therefore possibly pass it on to unjabbed folk.

We do however take comfort from the fact that should we get it, we are more than likely either not going to notice, or will merely have mild symptoms.

No guarantees, of course, but life has no guarantees. We could be run over by a bus if we go out. But it doesn't stop us.

Arizona

I don't know either tbh

I know some people are obliged to do this for work of course.

I think it might be better to show her NHS or ONS stats for your area.

Did she worry about catching flu or pneumonia?

It's a really tough spot. Last year, a friend wouldn't go in her garden if the neighbours were in theirs.

Arizona11 wrote:Can anyone tell me why you would get a test if you are fully vaccinated? I need to know so I can give her confidence to go out and not worry. Thanks

There are lots of vaccinated people being tested, including the over 65s.

If I want to see my mother in her care home I need to be tested and she is regularly tested as a resident. We have both been vaccinated (she has had both, I get my second jab tomorrow). The results of the tests are uploaded to the NHS - I got my ‘you are ok’ text earlier.

AF62 wrote:

Arizona11 wrote:Can anyone tell me why you would get a test if you are fully vaccinated? I need to know so I can give her confidence to go out and not worry. Thanks

There are lots of vaccinated people being tested, including the over 65s.

If I want to see my mother in her care home I need to be tested and she is regularly tested as a resident. We have both been vaccinated (she has had both, I get my second jab tomorrow). The results of the tests are uploaded to the NHS - I got my ‘you are ok’ text earlier.

Would either of you do it if you didn't have to though?

Sunnypad wrote:

AF62 wrote:

Arizona11 wrote:Can anyone tell me why you would get a test if you are fully vaccinated? I need to know so I can give her confidence to go out and not worry. Thanks

There are lots of vaccinated people being tested, including the over 65s.

If I want to see my mother in her care home I need to be tested and she is regularly tested as a resident. We have both been vaccinated (she has had both, I get my second jab tomorrow). The results of the tests are uploaded to the NHS - I got my ‘you are ok’ text earlier.

Would either of you do it if you didn't have to though?

No, but that is because we have been vaccinated and there is damn all COVID-19 in this area.

If we were in an area where COVID-19 was running rampant, then I would even if I didn’t have to because I would be pretty guilty if I was responsible for introducing it to the home because (foolishly) not all the residents or staff have chosen to be vaccinated.

Arizona11 wrote:My wife and I have had both jabs of AZ vaccine. She still does not trust the effectiveness and is scared to leave the house. I told her that today it was reported by Public Health England that the AZ vaccine has been found to have 90% effectiveness in over 65’s. She says how does PHE know this. She feels that many over 65’s may stay at home and not be part of the statistics and wants to know why those who have has both jabs and are going out would bother to get tested anyway.

Can anyone tell me why you would get a test if you are fully vaccinated? I need to know so I can give her confidence to go out and not worry. Thanks

Well one reason might be because vaccination does not confer 100% immunity to COVID. As you said yourself, 90% effectiveness is a likely figure (I've seen 95%), so there is still a 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 chance of catching it. The best thing though is the chances of being hospitalised and dying once vaccinated are close to zero AIUI, although I can't quote a source for that. Someone else here probably can though.

Other reasons might be to check if one is infected asymptomatically, and one wishes not to pass it on to anyone else. Another reason might be curiosity. A friend of mine who works in a shop tests himself several times a week for no other reason. A third reason is that prior to many medical procedures, a PCR test is mandatory. Another friend of mine had an eye op a while back and a negative PCR test result was demanded by the clinic before proceeding.

But regarding your last sentence, I think it might be misleading to tell her not to worry. Fairer to explain her chances of catching it are vastly reduced but not to zero, and should she catch it her chances of being hospitalised are also vastly reduced, but still not to zero, and let her decide.

I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

Clariman wrote:I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

100% certainty no, but there is plenty of published evidence that vaccination substantially reduces transmission.

Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested. As ever, personal circumstances may dictate otherwise.

Was your result a genuine one, or a false positive?

77ss wrote:

Clariman wrote:I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

100% certainty no, but there is plenty of published evidence that vaccination substantially reduces transmission.

Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested. As ever, personal circumstances may dictate otherwise.

Was your result a genuine one, or a false positive?

Totally.
But sometimes the "personal" aspect of it counts for a rat's chuff

It can be useful from an epidemiological (apologies for the big word) point of view to know how well stuff is going (or not)
Just saying
Hugs to you all
-sd

77ss wrote:Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested.

I wouldn't put it quite like that but I see what you mean.

I listed several reasons a few posts above to get tested, do you consider them all invalid?

There is a big personal DISadvantage in getting tested however, in that should one receive an unexpected positive result, one is expected to self-isolate for 10 days - what a ball-ache.

Better not to test and not to find out, some might say.

Clariman wrote:I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

So a follow up PCR confirmed that? I'm going to guess you don't mind me asking, as you shared the initial info.

Mike4 wrote:

77ss wrote:Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested.

I wouldn't put it quite like that but I see what you mean.

I listed several reasons a few posts above to get tested, do you consider them all invalid?

There is a big personal DISadvantage in getting tested however, in that should one receive an unexpected positive result, one is expected to self-isolate for 10 days - what a ball-ache.

Better not to test and not to find out, some might say.

Is it really the case that you don't get "sick pay" (or equivalent) if you have to take time off work because of having a confirmed case of "the bug"?
- I don't use the term "common sense" often but ferfecksake!

-sd

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

77ss wrote:Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested.

I wouldn't put it quite like that but I see what you mean.

I listed several reasons a few posts above to get tested, do you consider them all invalid?

There is a big personal DISadvantage in getting tested however, in that should one receive an unexpected positive result, one is expected to self-isolate for 10 days - what a ball-ache.

Better not to test and not to find out, some might say.

Is it really the case that you don't get "sick pay" (or equivalent) if you have to take time off work because of having a confirmed case of "the bug"?
- I don't use the term "common sense" often but ferfecksake!

-sd

Sick pay here is a pittance, way below even minimum wage AIUI.

And for the many self employed in the UK, it is zero obviously.

Mike4 wrote:

77ss wrote:Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested.

I wouldn't put it quite like that but I see what you mean.

I listed several reasons a few posts above to get tested, do you consider them all invalid?

There is a big personal DISadvantage in getting tested however, in that should one receive an unexpected positive result, one is expected to self-isolate for 10 days - what a ball-ache.

Better not to test and not to find out, some might say.

Of your several reasons, apart from the obvious mandatory ones, the only one that that I consider valid is curiosity - always an acceptable reason.

I think too many people are gripped by fear, and seeking the unachievable 100% certainty when they would not dream of wanting that in other areas.

I have now had both jabs, but to be honest that has made no difference to my attitude, which has always been:

I may be a natural immune.
I may already have had it - and been one of the many asymptomatic cases.
If I get it, I may not get it seriously.
If it is my time, then so be it. Life is for living. Not for cowering in a corner.

Personal circumstances come into play of course. I live on my own which makes my approach easy.

You mentioned an unexpected positive. What if it is a false-positive? By no means an insignificant possibility. Self-isolation for 10 days may be a balls-ache but I suspect that the sheer panic that some peope might feel could be quite destructive. Better not to test unless you have good reason.

77ss wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

77ss wrote:Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested.

I wouldn't put it quite like that but I see what you mean.

I listed several reasons a few posts above to get tested, do you consider them all invalid?

There is a big personal DISadvantage in getting tested however, in that should one receive an unexpected positive result, one is expected to self-isolate for 10 days - what a ball-ache.

Better not to test and not to find out, some might say.

Of your several reasons, apart from the obvious mandatory ones, the only one that that I consider valid is curiosity - always an acceptable reason.

I think too many people are gripped by fear, and seeking the unachievable 100% certainty when they would not dream of wanting that in other areas.

I have now had both jabs, but to be honest that has made no difference to my attitude, which has always been:

I may be a natural immune.
I may already have had it - and been one of the many asymptomatic cases.
If I get it, I may not get it seriously.
If it is my time, then so be it. Life is for living. Not for cowering in a corner.

Personal circumstances come into play of course. I live on my own which makes my approach easy.

You mentioned an unexpected positive. What if it is a false-positive? By no means an insignificant possibility. Self-isolation for 10 days may be a balls-ache but I suspect that the sheer panic that some peope might feel could be quite destructive. Better not to test unless you have good reason.

If you get a positive with a lateral flow test, I think you are supposed to get a confirmatory PCR test done before just isolating for 10 days, because it's accepted that there are quite a number of false positives from LFTs.

Mike4 wrote:Sick pay here is a pittance, way below even minimum wage AIUI.

And for the many self employed in the UK, it is zero obviously.

Minimum wage is per hour. So if you're off work, statutory sick pay is infinitely better. It's that middle-ground where you're infectious but still well enough to work where it truly fails to incentivise.

Covid brought us another level to this: people ordered to self-isolate on mere suspicion of exposure to a germ due to some contact. Failing to give them even statutory sick pay is a huge incentive to avoid testing.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Sick pay here is a pittance, way below even minimum wage AIUI.

And for the many self employed in the UK, it is zero obviously.

Minimum wage is per hour. So if you're off work, statutory sick pay is infinitely better. It's that middle-ground where you're infectious but still well enough to work where it truly fails to incentivise.

Covid brought us another level to this: people ordered to self-isolate on mere suspicion of exposure to a germ due to some contact. Failing to give them even statutory sick pay is a huge incentive to avoid testing.

Indeed!
Which is why I'm s bit surprised that's the policy (it ain't down these parts - where they're actively encouraging anyone to test positive!)
Puts some stuff in to perspective though
- sd

77ss wrote:

Clariman wrote:I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

100% certainty no, but there is plenty of published evidence that vaccination substantially reduces transmission.

Personally, I see no point whatsoever in getting tested. As ever, personal circumstances may dictate otherwise.

Was your result a genuine one, or a false positive?

Who knows? It was a PCR test so the best we have. I've just done an antibody test so might come to a conclusion.

Sunnypad wrote:

Clariman wrote:I have had one dose of vaccination and tested positive shortly after (much to my surprise), but was completely asymptomatic. We use a lateral flow tests twice a week because there is no evidence to say vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus, so it is an additional check we do for the safety of others and also for personal reassurance.

So a follow up PCR confirmed that? I'm going to guess you don't mind me asking, as you shared the initial info.

My positive test WAS a PCR test. If I got a positive lateral flow test I would self isolate and get a PCR test to confirm or not.