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Long covid

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
88V8
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Long covid

#424916

Postby 88V8 » July 5th, 2021, 11:02 am

This seems mainly to affect the young, so maybe not a great concern to Lemons.
However, if BoJo is determined to unlock with the young not fully vaccinated, it could become a concern, so it seems worth starting a Topic here...

Phone call on Times Radio this morning with a chap who has been suffering for 15 months... at about 1:49...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/show/2 ... 2021-07-05

And in the interest of preserving right/left balance, yes, one is concerned that it could also be a slackers' charter....

V8

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Re: Long covid

#424917

Postby pje16 » July 5th, 2021, 11:09 am

Not sure about it mainly affecting the young
"although it does occur across all ages. Long COVID affects around 10% of 18-49 year olds who become unwell with COVID-19, rising to 22% of over 70s."
Full article
https://covid.joinzoe.com/us-post/long-covid

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Re: Long covid

#424927

Postby Spet0789 » July 5th, 2021, 11:36 am

Has anyone seen any research on whether vaccination seems to reduce the chances of COVID becoming long COVID?

I would guess that it would, in which case it further underscores how mass vaccination changes the game. Given no fully-vaccinated, otherwise healthy person has died of COVID (AFAIK), long COVID would seem to be the only remaining concern for this cohort.

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Re: Long covid

#424939

Postby Stompa » July 5th, 2021, 12:31 pm

Spet0789 wrote:Has anyone seen any research on whether vaccination seems to reduce the chances of COVID becoming long COVID?

https://institute.global/policy/hidden- ... long-covid

"While more comprehensive research into the impact of vaccination on Long Covid symptoms is needed, the existing preliminary evidence is growing, showing that it reduces symptoms and can prevent Long Covid emerging by up to 30 per cent."

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Re: Long covid

#424976

Postby zico » July 5th, 2021, 3:06 pm

Spet0789 wrote: Given no fully-vaccinated, otherwise healthy person has died of COVID (AFAIK)


That's a rather large AFAIK strawman. Let's assume your statement is correct (as you say, we don't know). But if it is, are we only concerned about "otherwise healthy" people? Probably most people over 70 years old wouldn't meet this category of "otherwise healthy". Diabetes, obesity, asthma, heart disease, weakened immune system - these all count as "underlying health conditions" and there are many millions of people who fall into this category.

We might as well say there are virtually no deaths in hospitals amongst otherwise healthy people because if they were healthy they wouldn't be in hospital!

(Fullfact link below shows 50 deaths amongst double-vaccinated folks, but doesn't say whether they had "underlying health conditions".
Writing for The Guardian, statisticians Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters said that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially is at the same risk from Covid-19 as an unvaccinated person of around 50.
)

https://fullfact.org/online/fully-vacci ... ly-expose/

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Re: Long covid

#424977

Postby zico » July 5th, 2021, 3:10 pm

The concerning thing about long Covid is that it affects people's brains - senses, memory loss, thinking capacity. We don't know what the long-term effect of this could be, so it makes no sense to risk mass infections amongst children when around 10% get long-Covid (i.e. brain affected).

The other problem about mass infections amongst children is that they'll mix with vaccinated parents and grandparents, so the variants of the virus which can evade the vaccine will have a competitive advantage, and so the UK will be much more likely to breed a vaccine-resistant variant amongst the millions of kids that will get Covid under government's current plans.

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Re: Long covid

#424988

Postby zico » July 5th, 2021, 3:31 pm

Info from the latest ONS report on Long Covid.

962,000 people in the UK currently suffering from Long Covid. 634,000 (66%) of those say Long Covid impacts their daily lives and 178,000 (18.5%) say it impacts their daily lives "a lot". 385,000 (40%) have suffered from it for more than a year.
Link to full report at bottom (it has a very readable summary)
The ONS report is based on self-reported figures, but either we have a lot of sick people, or a lot of liars - possibly a lot of both groups.

If we let the infections rip from "Freedom Day" the vaccines will reduce the %age of people getting Long Covid, but certainly won't eliminate it.

Fatigue was the most common symptom reported as part of individuals' experience of long COVID (535,000 people), followed by shortness of breath (397,000), muscle ache (309,000), and difficulty concentrating (295,000).

As a proportion of the UK population, prevalence of self-reported long COVID was greatest in people aged 35 to 69 years, females, people living in the most deprived areas, those working in health or social care, and those with another activity-limiting health condition or disability.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... /1july2021

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Re: Long covid

#424992

Postby Lootman » July 5th, 2021, 3:39 pm

zico wrote:Fatigue was the most common symptom reported as part of individuals' experience of long COVID (535,000 people)

That is a really fuzzy symptom at the best of times. Millions of people are "fatigued" all the time anyway, due to stress, anxiety, over-work, family issues, money worries, sleep dysfunctions and a whole host of other things.

How can that be empirically related back to any form of Covid, as opposed to situational factors? Isn't "fatigue" just one of those things, like headache and backache, that people whine to their doctors about that can never truly be verified or confirmed? Perfect symptoms for getting a doctor to sign you off work for a few days or get a prescription for a psychoactive little helper?

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Re: Long covid

#425030

Postby Julian » July 5th, 2021, 5:31 pm

88V8 wrote:This seems mainly to affect the young, so maybe not a great concern to Lemons.
However, if BoJo is determined to unlock with the young not fully vaccinated, it could become a concern, so it seems worth starting a Topic here...

Phone call on Times Radio this morning with a chap who has been suffering for 15 months... at about 1:49...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/show/2 ... 2021-07-05

And in the interest of preserving right/left balance, yes, one is concerned that it could also be a slackers' charter....

V8

This question came up a few minutes ago in the PM’s press briefings. Chris Whitty said that the data is not yet clear and they hope to have more clarity in a few months. He also observed that long Covid is almost certainly a number of different conditions (he used some more fancy word for “conditions”, “syndromes” maybe: I forget).

- Julian

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Re: Long covid

#425039

Postby vagrantbrain » July 5th, 2021, 6:03 pm

I was hospitalised a few years ago with pneumonia after a gruelling army exercise in the alps. The coughing and spluttering cleared up after about a week but it was a good 3 months before I was back to the same level of fitness and energy. I went from running 10 miles in an hour to being wiped out walking for 1 mile, and going to bed at 5:30pm exhausted after a sedentary day in the office. Funnily enough the symptoms were very similar to those reported for long-covid. My GP reckoned it was not uncommon after a serious respiratory infection and would likely resolve itself, which it did. Makes me wonder if long covid is more a "normal" reaction to a serious illness rather than something unique to covid.

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Re: Long covid

#425055

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 5th, 2021, 7:11 pm

Yep, post viral fatigue syndrome is most definitely 'a thing'

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Re: Long covid

#425056

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 5th, 2021, 7:15 pm

Julian wrote:This question came up a few minutes ago in the PM’s press briefings. Chris Whitty said that the data is not yet clear and they hope to have more clarity in a few months. He also observed that long Covid is almost certainly a number of different conditions (he used some more fancy word for “conditions”, “syndromes” maybe: I forget).

- Julian

Might have been 'sequelae' - I don't know as I missed the briefing!

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Re: Long covid

#425060

Postby Spet0789 » July 5th, 2021, 7:30 pm

zico wrote:
Spet0789 wrote: Given no fully-vaccinated, otherwise healthy person has died of COVID (AFAIK)


That's a rather large AFAIK strawman. Let's assume your statement is correct (as you say, we don't know). But if it is, are we only concerned about "otherwise healthy" people? Probably most people over 70 years old wouldn't meet this category of "otherwise healthy". Diabetes, obesity, asthma, heart disease, weakened immune system - these all count as "underlying health conditions" and there are many millions of people who fall into this category.

We might as well say there are virtually no deaths in hospitals amongst otherwise healthy people because if they were healthy they wouldn't be in hospital!

(Fullfact link below shows 50 deaths amongst double-vaccinated folks, but doesn't say whether they had "underlying health conditions".
Writing for The Guardian, statisticians Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters said that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially is at the same risk from Covid-19 as an unvaccinated person of around 50.
)

https://fullfact.org/online/fully-vacci ... ly-expose/


In trimming my post, you’ve lost the meaning.

My statement explicitly referred to that cohort of fully vaccinated, otherwise healthy people. If my AFAIK is correct, long COVID is all they have to worry about.

Of course if you aren’t both of those things you have much greater grounds for concern and so should society on your behalf.

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Re: Long covid

#425063

Postby Julian » July 5th, 2021, 7:51 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:
Julian wrote:This question came up a few minutes ago in the PM’s press briefings. Chris Whitty said that the data is not yet clear and they hope to have more clarity in a few months. He also observed that long Covid is almost certainly a number of different conditions (he used some more fancy word for “conditions”, “syndromes” maybe: I forget).

- Julian

Might have been 'sequelae' - I don't know as I missed the briefing!

Thanks but it definitely wasn’t that. I know because I would have had to have gone and looked up what that meant :)

- Julian

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Re: Long covid

#425067

Postby Stompa » July 5th, 2021, 8:07 pm

Julian wrote:(he used some more fancy word for “conditions”, “syndromes” maybe: I forget).

Yes, he said syndromes.

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Re: Long covid

#425150

Postby dealtn » July 6th, 2021, 9:05 am

AleisterCrowley wrote:Yep, post viral fatigue syndrome is most definitely 'a thing'


Yes, and any talk of Long Covid without referencing similar "long" versions of multiple other viruses, or other illnesses, and the wide spectrum of symptoms from "pins and needles" to "severe lung damage", is either lazy or disingenuous.

(Disc. post viral syndrome sufferer since Oct 19)

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Re: Long covid

#425177

Postby servodude » July 6th, 2021, 10:41 am

dealtn wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:Yep, post viral fatigue syndrome is most definitely 'a thing'


Yes, and any talk of Long Covid without referencing similar "long" versions of multiple other viruses, or other illnesses, and the wide spectrum of symptoms from "pins and needles" to "severe lung damage", is either lazy or disingenuous.

(Disc. post viral syndrome sufferer since Oct 19)


When they've established they are similar I reckon they will lump them together
- the incidence at present seems high and I think that's why they need to give it credence and due consideration at the moment

-sd

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Re: Long covid

#428987

Postby 88V8 » July 20th, 2021, 10:07 am

Michael Rosen... the childrens' author... on Times Radio just now... post-covid he has lost most of the sight in one eye, all the hearing in one ear, has tingling toes - it attacks the capilliaries - and sometimes has dizziness.
Sounded quite cheerful even so.

Not too good, really.

V8

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Re: Long covid

#429012

Postby servodude » July 20th, 2021, 11:21 am

88V8 wrote:Michael Rosen... the childrens' author... on Times Radio just now... post-covid he has lost most of the sight in one eye, all the hearing in one ear, has tingling toes - it attacks the capilliaries - and sometimes has dizziness.
Sounded quite cheerful even so.

Not too good, really.

V8

For a long time covid has looked a [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] blood disorder that just happens to be delivered through the respiratory system
Starting with the weird (GGO) chest x-rays (used in Russia more than PCR tests as they are immediate), through "sticky blood", thrombosis, stroke symptoms, kids limbs changing colour!
Problem with messing with the blood is that it's used in most places in the body - do it can do a huge range of stuff

Really sorry to hear about Michael Rosen; he's always come across as a bloody good sort and he's already suffered through more shite than I'd wish on anyone

-sd

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Re: Long covid

#433646

Postby 88V8 » August 10th, 2021, 10:44 am

Commentary on two ongoing studies, one headed up at UCL following 4,000 sufferers, and separate commentary on a contributing smaller one in Australia.

The research focused on those initial COVID-19 cases, diagnosed early in 2020. All participants were over the age of 18 and suffered from symptoms lasting at least 28 days.
A striking 203 different symptoms were identified in the study, the most common matching prior long COVID studies – fatigue, brain fog and reductions in exercise capacity. But a huge array of diverse symptoms were also reported, including sexual dysfunction, shingles and bladder issues.
“Headaches, insomnia, vertigo, neuralgia, neuropsychiatric changes, tremors, sensitivity to noise and light, hallucinations (olfactory and other), tinnitus, and other sensorimotor symptoms were also all common, and may point to larger neurological issues involving both the central and peripheral nervous system,”

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/new-study-long-covid-symptoms-coronavirus/?itm_source=newatlas&itm_medium=article-body

and

The Australian research is following 69 recovered COVID-19 patients, the majority of whom (47) only suffered from mild disease. Because of Australia’s unique position in the world, having temporarily eliminated the virus from certain regions, the ongoing project can track long-term immune responses to an infection without worrying about re-infection or vaccination status.
https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/long-covid-immune-dysfunction-australian-study/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=2c87b330c5-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_08_10_07_20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-2c87b330c5-92456261

“At present there are no treatments for long COVID sufferers and as the world slowly transitions to living with COVID, we will need to find answers and better solutions to prevent and treat long COVID in the years to come”

V8


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