Back to the pub yet?

[bungeejumper]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

[Midsmartin]

I'm totally ok with pub gardens/yards. I'm pretty much ok with pubs that are spacious, fairly quiet, and/or well ventilated. I think I'd feel a bit more wary in a crowded place.

If you don't feel comfortable then that's entirely up to you, and your friends/family should be tolerant of that and realise it's not a personal affront to them.

I'm inclined to think that in general, when we're vaccinated, the risks are acceptably low and the certain pleasure of a good pint outweighs the tiny risk of serious harm. But it's meant to be a pleasurable evening, and if you're not enjoying it because you're uncomfortable, then it's not the right thing for you yet. I'm up for going to the cinema, but my wife isn't yet! I'm trying not to take it personally

I'd suggest starting with a pub/coffee shop with outside tables, if there's still some sunny weather, and seeing how you feel.

[redsturgeon]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

My answer is somewhat complicated by the fact I have stopped drinking since last year but my thoughts are similar to yours.

While I am happy to meet friends outside in the beer garden I will not be socialising indoors just yet. The vaccine offers some protection but the evidence is that it will be waning now after a few months so it might be better to wait until after a booster shot if you really want to go.

There is some suggestion that it may be advantageous to expose yourself to Covid 19 and other viruses to help you produce more antibodies while just suffering mild if any symptoms at all. You must also bear in mind who you might pass on any virus to though even if you are asymptomatic.

As to anyone putting pressure on friends to either go or not go to the pub, I think that it is for each individual to make their own decision based on their own unique circumstances and attitude to risk. There is no one size fits all and therefore no right or wrong answer.

John

[77ss]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

Like you, I am in my 70s and doubly jabbed. I have happily returned to the pub. No issues.

But - I have long tended to have a drink at lunchtime rather than in the evenings. Less crowded, less noisy....

Why not suggest an afternoon pint to your friend? Perhaps that would suit you better - and show willing. In the end of course, you have to do what you are comfortable with. You can't let others dictate that.

[Dod101]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

Of course you are not plain wrong if you do not feel comfortable about it. 'Tis the friend who is wrong. He should respect your feelings and get on with life. What pleasure could there be for you to go along and be on edge all evening, especially if as you say, ventilation or distancing don't happen? You can hardly expect masks in a pub. A pub is not my scene so I can say with confidence that I have never tried one recently so cannot help you there.

The risks these days seem fairly low for a double jabbed person and at some point we will all have to brave the social scene but it depends on you and not on what others think of you.

Dod

[tjh290633]

We have been happily going to pubs for lunches and other meetings ever since it was permitted, initially outdoors, then in marquees and then indoors.

We are both twice vaccinated and have no worries about the risks of infection. We have resumed hugging friends and relations when the occasion merits it.

I have had one evening meeting for a drink with a fellow moderator, but do not often do this in normal times. I only wear a mask when the establishment requests it. It has been a month or more since I put one on to go into a pub, or to order at the bar.

The only thing that has been proved to be effective against infection with Covid is vaccination. Some of the others might have been effective, but there is no proof and masks are merely comfort blankets for the worried.

Go to the pub, enjoy yourself, and get on with life.

TJH

[dealtn]

Well I guess it will be interesting to hear his side of the conversation and why he is p!ssed off. That won't happen, of course, but might add the context.

Nobody should be persuaded to do anything they aren't comfortable with. So by that definition you aren't "plain wrong". But by equal measure, other people, on their assessment of their personal risks, balanced against the things they want to do, and have been missing out on, will arrive at different conclusions (for them). They aren't "plain wrong" either. Being consciously, or sub-consciously, told they are at fault because their thinking isn't aligned with others isn't likely to be helpful in maintaining friendships.

Life is full of risks, and characters that have different attitudes to risk. It is also full of people that don't understand risk, how it applies to them, and the (potential) consequence of being on the wrong side of that risk (both to them and others). That is how life has worked for all of your life, and before it, and will continue long after it. Long may it be so!

I suspect very few on the planet want a life of absolutely sterility and literally the lowest risk possible. What kind of life would that be? Certainly one my parents in their 80s would abhor, and they are very vocal about it (though 100% compliant with all restrictions throughout this episode). You sound like you just sit on a different place on the risk spectrum to him, and others, and quite possibly the majority given the evidence we see on a daily basis. If you are happy with where you sit, are comfortable with the life you now lead, and the things you perhaps miss, but don't yet feel able to recommence, then you aren't wrong. Similarly others that come to different conclusions, and have other behaviours, aren't wrong either.

[ursaminortaur]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

Of course you are not plain wrong if you do not feel comfortable about it. 'Tis the friend who is wrong. He should respect your feelings and get on with life. What pleasure could there be for you to go along and be on edge all evening, especially if as you say, ventilation or distancing don't happen? You can hardly expect masks in a pub. A pub is not my scene so I can say with confidence that I have never tried one recently so cannot help you there.

The risks these days seem fairly low for a double jabbed person and at some point we will all have to brave the social scene but it depends on you and not on what others think of you.

Dod

Being double-jabbed reduces the risks but doesn't eliminate them for older people

https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff

A Financial Times analysis of global infection fatality rates, for example, suggests that a double-jabbed 80-year-old person now faces about the same mortality risk as an unvaccinated 50-year-old.

[Lanark]

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

Not me

But saying that I would follow Dr. John Campbell's advice rather than anything which internet randoms will tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB ... IBupFtBDxg

[AleisterCrowley]

Yes, returned ages ago
The outdoor service thing was a pain, but I got used to it. I actually sit outside the pub I go to in Reading and use the app to order if the bar looks busy. Not through corona-paranoia, just less hassle
Was back home over summer (late July) and my local was entirely normal -well, as normal as it gets...

I'm also a - 'Single fella, beer is my social life'
56 and double jabbed by late May

[ to answer the question, you may be to the right of the distribution when it comes to corona-caution, but you have to take your own health/age/dependents into account, so everyone's going to have their own risk/reward calculation. I think you have to look at the risks from everything (flu/depression/asteroid strikes) to decide when the COVID risk is down in the noise for you]

[Alaric]

And if you have, how do you find it?

More expensive than it used to be. But perhaps you don't notice when paying by contactless as seemingly required or at least preferred.

[bungeejumper]

But saying that I would follow Dr. John Campbell's advice rather than anything which internet randoms will tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB ... IBupFtBDxg

Thanks very much. But eek, the first thing that I got there was a video ad from Nigel Farage. Now what was that you were saying about internet randoms?

Oh well, that's man who doesn't seem to mind being in the pub. I hope he isn't infectious?

BJ

[Dod101]

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

Not me

But saying that I would follow Dr. John Campbell's advice rather than anything which internet randoms will tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB ... IBupFtBDxg

So what does he advise? It is not obvious from your selection which of the many videos we should watch>

Dod

[Dod101]

Just taking the temperature here. We have just p1ssed off a very good friend and neighbour by declining his second invitation to go down to the pub on a Sunday evening, on the grounds that we're not feeling comfortable about the indoor covid risk just yet. Or, indeed, any sizeable indoor gathering where ventilation, masks or distancing don't happen. Are we being unreasonable? Or rather, are we social outliers by today's standards?

We are seventy somethings, fully jabbed, and he's a sixtysomething who does a lot of pub crawling. (Single fella, beer is his social life). We love him dearly, but he doesn't really seem to get it, and he says we're just plain wrong. Hmmmm. So are we?

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

BJ

Of course you are not plain wrong if you do not feel comfortable about it. 'Tis the friend who is wrong. He should respect your feelings and get on with life. What pleasure could there be for you to go along and be on edge all evening, especially if as you say, ventilation or distancing don't happen? You can hardly expect masks in a pub. A pub is not my scene so I can say with confidence that I have never tried one recently so cannot help you there.

The risks these days seem fairly low for a double jabbed person and at some point we will all have to brave the social scene but it depends on you and not on what others think of you.

Dod

Being double-jabbed reduces the risks but doesn't eliminate them for older people

https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff

A Financial Times analysis of global infection fatality rates, for example, suggests that a double-jabbed 80-year-old person now faces about the same mortality risk as an unvaccinated 50-year-old.

If that is the case the jabs have not done us oldies much good then. I actually find that finding difficult to believe. Quite possibly the case for an 80 year old with underlying health issues but they have not all got that.

Dod

[AleisterCrowley]

Theres a graphic on the BBC showing the risk by age/vax status - about half way down
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

[Lootman]

I've been going to pubs and restaurants regularly since May, and don't really think much about it any more. In fact my life is pretty much back to how it was before March 2020.

I didn't like it so much in pubs when you had to be seated and order via an app or QR code, but now you can go up to the bar and order, it's much better. And my request for a paper menu in restaurants has always been honoured.

Like others here I avoid Friday and Saturday evenings, and my sons know the times I prefer: lunchtimes, afternoons or early evenings.

[dealtn]

Theres a graphic on the BBC showing the risk by age/vax status - about half way down
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

Yes, but that only shows one risk. That of dying within 28 days of a positive test. If you want to properly assess the success of the vaccine, in making statements such as

If that is the case the jabs have not done us oldies much good then.

you need to be considering how being double vaccinated might prevent you from the requirement of being tested (and being found positive as a result) as well.

[jfgw]

Off tonight. I'm not sure where yet, we may visit two or three. Last week we went to the Witham beer festival, next week probably the South Woodham Ferrers one.

Julian F. G. W.

[Lanark]

Serious question, I'd be really interested to know how many Lemons have happily returned to the boozer? And if you have, how do you find it?

Not me

But saying that I would follow Dr. John Campbell's advice rather than anything which internet randoms will tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB ... IBupFtBDxg

So what does he advise? It is not obvious from your selection which of the many videos we should watch>

Dod

My main point is that when it comes to medical advice it is better to listen to someone qualified and make your own assessment.
A lot of people on the internet (me included) will have their own biases and listening to their opinion will never be as good as going direct to an actual expert.

I think you have to do a little risk assessment, how old are you? what are the covid rates like in the area you live? and how long is it since you got the vaccine or a top up? ( the effectiveness declines over time).
For myself that means I will visit a quiet restaurant about once or twice every 6 months.

[Dod101]

Well I take pot luck on whether the restaurant is quiet or not but I have done my best to dine out at a restaurant at least every month and more often if I can. I think the risk of catching Covid, double vaccinated, in a public space is not very high these days. Obviously (to me anyway) crowded pubs, nightclubs and maybe public transport are higher risk than I would want to be exposed to, but otherwise?

Dod