Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Living with covid

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Living with covid

#491508

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 4th, 2022, 1:36 pm

I've just had covid. Nothing serious: the worst two days hit a 3 on my scale of 1-5 for the severity of general lurgies - colds and flu.

From testing positive on March 22nd to testing all-clear on March 31st I dutifully self-isolated. That is to say, avoided indoor human contact, and kept a respectful distance from people even when outdoors. On the other hand, I probably spread it on March 20th, when I took part in a social event with what were in retrospect[1] almost certainly the first symptoms.

Now the interesting part. I had a plumber due to come and install a new shower tray on March 25th. After testing positive I texted him: sorry, but I have covid, and can we reschedule? My motivation was of course that it would be wrong to expose him - a man in his 60s - to a very small room filled with covid germs.

He found time for me a week later (last Friday), by which time I was all clear. Told me he'd had covid twice: first time he was ill, second he shrugged it off. He's also fully on board with living with covid, and wouldn't have regarded my germs as a reason to stay away! He thought that his work - with lots of noisy banging - shouldn't be inflicted on me while I was on my sickbed. Which I wasn't: my symptoms were already gone by that March 25th date.

So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?

Postscript: as it happens, the timing worked out nicely. His instructions not to use the new shower tray for three days coincided with three cold nights, so being forced to take a hot bath instead of a shower was a bit of a luxury!

[1] At the time I attributed the symptoms to my ageing body having got both cold and overexerted the day before. I tested negative that morning.

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Living with covid

#491513

Postby dealtn » April 4th, 2022, 2:01 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Now the interesting part. I had a plumber due to come and install a new shower tray on March 25th. After testing positive I texted him: sorry, but I have covid, and can we reschedule? My motivation was of course that it would be wrong to expose him - a man in his 60s - to a very small room filled with covid germs.


So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?



What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It sounds probable that if both of you were happy any risk could be mitigated to being very small.

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Living with covid

#491519

Postby pje16 » April 4th, 2022, 2:28 pm

dealtn wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Now the interesting part. I had a plumber due to come and install a new shower tray on March 25th. After testing positive I texted him: sorry, but I have covid, and can we reschedule? My motivation was of course that it would be wrong to expose him - a man in his 60s - to a very small room filled with covid germs.


So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?



What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It sounds probable that if both of you were happy any risk could be mitigated to being very small.


I suspect a bathroom or such like isn't the biggest of spaces (not science just common sense)
I think you did the right thing
but I will be shot down for that I think

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Living with covid

#491522

Postby dealtn » April 4th, 2022, 2:40 pm

pje16 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Now the interesting part. I had a plumber due to come and install a new shower tray on March 25th. After testing positive I texted him: sorry, but I have covid, and can we reschedule? My motivation was of course that it would be wrong to expose him - a man in his 60s - to a very small room filled with covid germs.


So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?



What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It sounds probable that if both of you were happy any risk could be mitigated to being very small.


I suspect a bathroom or such like isn't the biggest of spaces (not science just common sense)
I think you did the right thing
but I will be shot down for that I think


OK. To be clear I wasn't questioning the size of the room.

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3492
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: Living with covid

#491524

Postby richfool » April 4th, 2022, 2:47 pm

Interesting post Uncle E. I can sympathise.

We have survived for 25 months, without catching covid, taking prudent precautions, wearing masks, sanitising etc. Then last week my wife and daughter got covid, 2 days apart. They brought it home from work, where there was an outbreak. We have all had the 3 vaccinations.

I am older and due to go into hospital for an op in a few weeks, so we have been doing our best to keep it from getting to me. We live in a 2 bedroom flat. So daughter has been confined to her (second bedroom), and wife has been camping out in the living room. Both share use of the main bathroom. I have been splitting my time between the kitchen where I am doing all the catering, and the main bedroom, when I run out of steam or to sleep! I use the en-suite there.

Our Strategy:

Wife and daughter each have a set of crockery and cutlery in their rooms, which they wash in the bathroom after use, and put outside their doors at meal times. I prepare their meals and drinks and then (wearing a mask) pour them into their own dishes and cups outside their doors, before returning to the kitchen. They collect the food and drink from outside their rooms, wearing masks, which they also wear when commuting along the hallway to the bathroom (that area will be the weakest link).

My wife, whilst sleeping on the floor of the living room, has the benefit of the TV in the living room, though she has been too under the weather to use it so far. We communicate mainly through our smartphones, WhatsApp.

I try and get a quick walk in either the morning or afternoon, and pick up items from the nearby shop whilst out. Phew.

One concern I have is that if/when we open the windows to ventilate, the wind direction tends to drive the air flow through the flat, from the living room into the main bedroom, where I spend part of my time, (even with the doors closed). Hmm.

I am typing this on my laptop squashed onto the breakfast bar in the kitchen. Time for walkies, now.

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Living with covid

#491528

Postby pje16 » April 4th, 2022, 3:05 pm

dealtn wrote:
pje16 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Now the interesting part. I had a plumber due to come and install a new shower tray on March 25th. After testing positive I texted him: sorry, but I have covid, and can we reschedule? My motivation was of course that it would be wrong to expose him - a man in his 60s - to a very small room filled with covid germs.


So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?



What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It sounds probable that if both of you were happy any risk could be mitigated to being very small.


I suspect a bathroom or such like isn't the biggest of spaces (not science just common sense)
I think you did the right thing
but I will be shot down for that I think


OK. To be clear I wasn't questioning the size of the room.

Ok I couldn't believe that you actually were, but that's how it read

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Living with covid

#491539

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm

dealtn wrote:What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It's a very small shower room. With no external window. I use it every day, not just for the shower, but it's also where I have things like my toothbrush, and one of two loos in the house. Furthermore, it's en-suite to my bedroom.

Hence, whatever germs I may have and that are capable of living in the air and/or or on a surface can be expected to be there in the highest concentration of anywhere on my account.

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Living with covid

#491544

Postby dealtn » April 4th, 2022, 4:12 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
dealtn wrote:What's the science behind thinking he would be working in "a very small room filled with Covid germs"?

It's a very small shower room. With no external window. I use it every day, not just for the shower, but it's also where I have things like my toothbrush, and one of two loos in the house. Furthermore, it's en-suite to my bedroom.

Hence, whatever germs I may have and that are capable of living in the air and/or or on a surface can be expected to be there in the highest concentration of anywhere on my account.


You obviously know the room better than anyone on here, and that information wasn't originally available. I'm not in any way questioning your decision, and I think it both commendable and courteous you considered and informed your tradesman.

I was merely replying to your question
UncleEbenezer wrote:So in the spirit of Living with Covid, should he have come on the original date?


With respect to Living with Covid, these are the kind of things we will have to revert back to. by your admission there is another loo in your house, so brushing teeth (and storing toothbrushes) could be performed there in the few days before he arrived. Showers might still be needed to be taken in the original (very small) bathroom. But what is the likely science around Covid entering the room, and remaining there, and how long would it stay? I don't know but hot water and soap don't sound likely to be "good" environments for any virus. A quick clean the day before a tradesman arrives perhaps with bleach could eliminate any virus completely. What might the likely life be of any virus should any be left unintentionally from your most recent visit to that room be anyway. I can't see how many would arrive at a conclusion such as a room is "filled with Covid germs".

I suspect, even in a non ventilated small space used in the way you describe, between you both you could have mitigated risks and the chances of transmission would actually be quote small. The tradesman also has an ability to risk assess his own health, and take additional precautions too. Ultimately it comes down to what people will be comfortable with. The suggestion made in the OP is you are both on board with living with Covid. Not everyone would be as comfortable (yet?).

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Living with covid

#491547

Postby Lootman » April 4th, 2022, 4:20 pm

dealtn wrote:I suspect, even in a non ventilated small space used in the way you describe, between you both you could have mitigated risks and the chances of transmission would actually be quote small. The tradesman also has an ability to risk assess his own health, and take additional precautions too. Ultimately it comes down to what people will be comfortable with. The suggestion made in the OP is you are both on board with living with Covid. Not everyone would be as comfortable (yet?).

I did not see that Uncle said that the room was unventilated. Only that it had no window. Many such small bathrooms have an extractor fan - in fact I think that building regs may require that. A fan extracting to the outside would help a lot.

More generally I heard today that 5 million UK residents are currently infected with Covid. That is one person in thirteen. As such it is almost impossible to avoid contact with infected people. Perhaps the secret at this point is not minding?

Clariman
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3268
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:17 am
Has thanked: 3077 times
Been thanked: 1557 times

Re: Living with covid

#491555

Postby Clariman » April 4th, 2022, 4:45 pm

Sorry to hear you've had Covid.

"Living with Covid" here in Scotland still means self-isolating for the time-being, which I'm fine about to be honest. I always thought the UK ethic of going into work full of a cold or flu to be stoic was madness. All you did was pass it on to others. Better work from home if you can in those circumstances.

I can get out of jail of I have negative LFTs tomorrow and Wednesday, so we'll see where that goes. I still have symptoms today but they are fairly mild.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 8271
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4435 times
Been thanked: 3564 times

Re: Living with covid

#491690

Postby servodude » April 4th, 2022, 11:25 pm

Clariman wrote:I always thought the UK ethic of going into work full of a cold or flu to be stoic was madness. All you did was pass it on to others. Better work from home if you can in those circumstances


I think this has changed (hopefully for good); or at least there seem to be far fewer presentee desk martyrs and I hope it lasts!

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Living with covid

#491703

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 5th, 2022, 12:40 am

servodude wrote:
Clariman wrote:I always thought the UK ethic of going into work full of a cold or flu to be stoic was madness. All you did was pass it on to others. Better work from home if you can in those circumstances


I think this has changed (hopefully for good); or at least there seem to be far fewer presentee desk martyrs and I hope it lasts!


Right at the beginning of covid - just over two years ago - I wrote:
Coronavirus could leave a really good legacy if knowingly spreading germs could become as socially unacceptable as smoking.


Perhaps something tending towards that has indeed come to pass.

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3561
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 2371 times
Been thanked: 1943 times

Re: Living with covid

#491706

Postby scotia » April 5th, 2022, 1:14 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
servodude wrote:
Clariman wrote:I always thought the UK ethic of going into work full of a cold or flu to be stoic was madness. All you did was pass it on to others. Better work from home if you can in those circumstances


I think this has changed (hopefully for good); or at least there seem to be far fewer presentee desk martyrs and I hope it lasts!


Right at the beginning of covid - just over two years ago - I wrote:
Coronavirus could leave a really good legacy if knowingly spreading germs could become as socially unacceptable as smoking.


Perhaps something tending towards that has indeed come to pass.


Times have changed - but in my early youth (1950s), perfect attendance at primary school was considered a virtue (no matter your state of health). One lad in our class managed perfect attendance over the full 7 years of attendance and the headmaster awarded this feat with a Swiss Army Knife.

Clariman
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3268
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:17 am
Has thanked: 3077 times
Been thanked: 1557 times

Re: Living with covid

#491707

Postby Clariman » April 5th, 2022, 1:18 am

I do hope the martyrdom of going into the office unwell has changed forever but it would surprise me.

I had the flexibility to work from home when I wasn't with customers so I very rarely had a day off ill. My level of covid symptoms on day 5 right now wouldn't have stopped me working from home.

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 492
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Living with covid

#491722

Postby Gersemi » April 5th, 2022, 8:35 am

Clariman wrote:I do hope the martyrdom of going into the office unwell has changed forever but it would surprise me.

I had the flexibility to work from home when I wasn't with customers so I very rarely had a day off ill. My level of covid symptoms on day 5 right now wouldn't have stopped me working from home.


More to the point when will employers stop encouraging their workers coming to work when unwell? If I took a day off sick my employer made me fill in a form which asked 'why I was unable to work'. If I had a cold, say a cough, I was hard put to say why I was unable to operate a computer (only latterly was I able to work from home and that would involve me taking my laptop home with me the night before). They also had increasing sanctions if you took over certain numbers of days and occasions off sick within a 12 month period, so a couple of colds could land you in trouble. We did get full sick pay from day one, but not all employers offer this.

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Living with covid

#491728

Postby pje16 » April 5th, 2022, 8:45 am

Gersemi wrote:
Clariman wrote:I do hope the martyrdom of going into the office unwell has changed forever but it would surprise me.

I had the flexibility to work from home when I wasn't with customers so I very rarely had a day off ill. My level of covid symptoms on day 5 right now wouldn't have stopped me working from home.


More to the point when will employers stop encouraging their workers coming to work when unwell? If I took a day off sick my employer made me fill in a form which asked 'why I was unable to work'. If I had a cold, say a cough, I was hard put to say why I was unable to operate a computer (only latterly was I able to work from home and that would involve me taking my laptop home with me the night before). They also had increasing sanctions if you took over certain numbers of days and occasions off sick within a 12 month period, so a couple of colds could land you in trouble. We did get full sick pay from day one, but not all employers offer this.

Do you mean you got paid "sick pay" or just paid when you were off sick
I thought SSP didn't kick in for one day off

I have a couple of days off in the past six months with bad colds
no forms to fill in and got paid as normal (ie as if I hadn't been off)
I was off yesterday and that was one of the 2 days a week I'm supposed to go in
and I don't even have to make that up

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 492
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Living with covid

#491876

Postby Gersemi » April 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm

pje16 wrote:
Gersemi wrote:
Clariman wrote:I do hope the martyrdom of going into the office unwell has changed forever but it would surprise me.

I had the flexibility to work from home when I wasn't with customers so I very rarely had a day off ill. My level of covid symptoms on day 5 right now wouldn't have stopped me working from home.


More to the point when will employers stop encouraging their workers coming to work when unwell? If I took a day off sick my employer made me fill in a form which asked 'why I was unable to work'. If I had a cold, say a cough, I was hard put to say why I was unable to operate a computer (only latterly was I able to work from home and that would involve me taking my laptop home with me the night before). They also had increasing sanctions if you took over certain numbers of days and occasions off sick within a 12 month period, so a couple of colds could land you in trouble. We did get full sick pay from day one, but not all employers offer this.

Do you mean you got paid "sick pay" or just paid when you were off sick
I thought SSP didn't kick in for one day off

I have a couple of days off in the past six months with bad colds
no forms to fill in and got paid as normal (ie as if I hadn't been off)
I was off yesterday and that was one of the 2 days a week I'm supposed to go in
and I don't even have to make that up


Yes, I mean my employer paid my normal salary when I was on sick leave. Not all employers do this. However I had to satisfy my employer that I was genuinely sick, and believe me, some people were really worried about taking sick leave, and in some cases people were dismissed for taking too much sick leave. If you have some underlying conditions you can end up taking off a lot of time sick. My point is that many employers don't like their employees taking days off sick, after all they are paying them to work, not stay at home. In this way they encourage people to go to work when they have minor illnesses such as colds.

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Living with covid

#491878

Postby pje16 » April 5th, 2022, 3:51 pm

My employer is very different to yours
I logged on at the crack of dawn yesterday, and messaged my boss via Teams to say I was not working as I was feeling rough
I went back to bed, got up at lunchtime
logged on again to see if he had replied, which he had, I replied "Thanks"
He then said "Why are you logged on - rest"


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests