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First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Julian
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First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522587

Postby Julian » August 15th, 2022, 1:07 pm

The UK has become the first country to approve a dual vaccine which tackles both the original Covid virus and the newer Omicron variant.

The upgraded vaccine should be available as an autumn booster and give better protection against variants.

Moderna said it could supply doses in the next few weeks, but exactly who will get them has yet to be announced.

All over-50s and people in high-risk groups will be offered some form of booster from next month.

The original vaccines used in the pandemic were designed to train the body to fight the first form of the virus that emerged in Wuhan, in China, at the end of 2019.

The Covid virus has since mutated substantially, with a stream of new variants emerging that can dodge some of our immune defences. They have caused large surges in cases around the world.

'Sharpened tool'
Moderna's vaccine targets both the original strain and the first Omicron variant (BA.1), which emerged last winter. It is known as a bivalent vaccine as it takes aim at two forms of Covid.

...


[ Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336 ]

Personally I'm quite disappointed to see the second protein coding sequence based on BA.1 (spike I assume). I know that there is way more to immunity than neutralising antibodies but it is neutralising antibody titres (henceforth "NAT") that most reports seem to focus on and reading between the lines it looks as if the efficacy measure used for this approval was NAT results; I can't imagine that there was time and/or the ability to recruit sufficient Omicron-naïve volunteers to run a meaningful trial based on clinical outcomes. My problem is that from reports I have read looking at in vitro NAT experiments BA.1 does indeed show a lot of immune escape vs Delta (i.e. how good pre-BA.1 antibodies are at forming a neutralising binding with BA.1 spike) but there seems to be an even bigger step-change in reduction when going from BA.1 to BA.4 or BA.5 so as a layperson I do feel somewhat disappointed that it is not BA.4 or ideally BA.5 that was targeted. Just not enough time I suppose.

I confess that I will want to do a lot more research and try and find some more in-depth expert discussion about the potential risk-reward of the various booster options for my particular case (healthy male 63 year old) before I sign up for a booster this winter. I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines, and frankly I am even more sceptical of that option but as always am open to changing my mind if solid scientific consensus does seem to be out there that the risk-reward proposition makes sense for my situation.

- Julian

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522818

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2022, 11:43 am

Julian wrote:
I confess that I will want to do a lot more research and try and find some more in-depth expert discussion about the potential risk-reward of the various booster options for my particular case (healthy male 63 year old) before I sign up for a booster this winter. I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines, and frankly I am even more sceptical of that option but as always am open to changing my mind if solid scientific consensus does seem to be out there that the risk-reward proposition makes sense for my situation.

- Julian


I agree with this analysis and like you (as a 66 old) have not made up my mind to have the booster, especially given that I would only be offered one of the original mRNA vaccines. I have already been contacted and offered a flu and covid jab by my GP practice. I will probably have Mrs RS give me the flu jab and wait to decide on the covid one.

It will be interesting to see what the take up will be overall, I am guess less than 50%. I hear on the radio that the government scientists are already trying to encourage everyone over 50 to have the jab though.

John

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522820

Postby scotia » August 16th, 2022, 11:47 am

Julian wrote:
I confess that I will want to do a lot more research and try and find some more in-depth expert discussion about the potential risk-reward of the various booster options for my particular case (healthy male 63 year old) before I sign up for a booster this winter. I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines, and frankly I am even more sceptical of that option but as always am open to changing my mind if solid scientific consensus does seem to be out there that the risk-reward proposition makes sense for my situation.

- Julian

At age 78, with no adverse reactions to 2 AZ, 1 Pfizer and 1 Moderna, its a no brainer - I'll happily accept an Autumn booster (plus my annual flu vaccination).

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522824

Postby Dod101 » August 16th, 2022, 11:59 am

Julian wrote:
The UK has become the first country to approve a dual vaccine which tackles both the original Covid virus and the newer Omicron variant.

The upgraded vaccine should be available as an autumn booster and give better protection against variants.

Moderna said it could supply doses in the next few weeks, but exactly who will get them has yet to be announced.

All over-50s and people in high-risk groups will be offered some form of booster from next month.

The original vaccines used in the pandemic were designed to train the body to fight the first form of the virus that emerged in Wuhan, in China, at the end of 2019.

The Covid virus has since mutated substantially, with a stream of new variants emerging that can dodge some of our immune defences. They have caused large surges in cases around the world.

'Sharpened tool'
Moderna's vaccine targets both the original strain and the first Omicron variant (BA.1), which emerged last winter. It is known as a bivalent vaccine as it takes aim at two forms of Covid.

...


[ Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336 ]

Personally I'm quite disappointed to see the second protein coding sequence based on BA.1 (spike I assume). I know that there is way more to immunity than neutralising antibodies but it is neutralising antibody titres (henceforth "NAT") that most reports seem to focus on and reading between the lines it looks as if the efficacy measure used for this approval was NAT results; I can't imagine that there was time and/or the ability to recruit sufficient Omicron-naïve volunteers to run a meaningful trial based on clinical outcomes. My problem is that from reports I have read looking at in vitro NAT experiments BA.1 does indeed show a lot of immune escape vs Delta (i.e. how good pre-BA.1 antibodies are at forming a neutralising binding with BA.1 spike) but there seems to be an even bigger step-change in reduction when going from BA.1 to BA.4 or BA.5 so as a layperson I do feel somewhat disappointed that it is not BA.4 or ideally BA.5 that was targeted. Just not enough time I suppose.

I confess that I will want to do a lot more research and try and find some more in-depth expert discussion about the potential risk-reward of the various booster options for my particular case (healthy male 63 year old) before I sign up for a booster this winter. I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines, and frankly I am even more sceptical of that option but as always am open to changing my mind if solid scientific consensus does seem to be out there that the risk-reward proposition makes sense for my situation.

- Julian


For a lay person you have a lot of presumably informed opinions, but as another lay person, I have no idea whether what you say makes sense or not. I cannot understand though, why you would not take up the booster. Risk/reward you say? The risk is pretty low I would have thought and if it is being offered I will certainly take it up. I am afraid that I am not in a position to second guess the scientists/medics who are recommending it.

Dod

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522827

Postby doolally » August 16th, 2022, 12:13 pm

Presumably the scientists are planning ahead with the dual vaccine. The original 5G version and now dualled with a 6G version.
doolally :lol:

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522842

Postby Hallucigenia » August 16th, 2022, 12:54 pm

Julian wrote:as a layperson I do feel somewhat disappointed that it is not BA.4 or ideally BA.5 that was targeted. Just not enough time I suppose.

...I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines


Yep - these things take time (and it always takes longer to approve the first one under a lesser "variant" approval). Yep, it would be lovely to have a BA.5 vaccine - it will be on its way, but we need a booster in September, so it's BA.1 or nothing.

Minister on LBC seems to be saying that they will have 26 million dual jabs available for an autumn campaign - ie everyone in this phase (>50, vulnerable or frontline) will get the BA.1 dual jab.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1559433759098814465

The evidence for a fourth jab working is pretty good - it's tough that BA.4/5 are so immune-escapy, but it's a choice of either a BA.1 jab or nothing, it's better than nothing. As someone with long Covid, I'm having my fourth.

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522940

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2022, 7:05 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
Julian wrote:as a layperson I do feel somewhat disappointed that it is not BA.4 or ideally BA.5 that was targeted. Just not enough time I suppose.

...I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines


Yep - these things take time (and it always takes longer to approve the first one under a lesser "variant" approval). Yep, it would be lovely to have a BA.5 vaccine - it will be on its way, but we need a booster in September, so it's BA.1 or nothing.

Minister on LBC seems to be saying that they will have 26 million dual jabs available for an autumn campaign - ie everyone in this phase (>50, vulnerable or frontline) will get the BA.1 dual jab.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1559433759098814465

The evidence for a fourth jab working is pretty good - it's tough that BA.4/5 are so immune-escapy, but it's a choice of either a BA.1 jab or nothing, it's better than nothing. As someone with long Covid, I'm having my fourth.


I listened carefully to this and I'm not sure that she said that they had 26 million doses of the new vaccine available.

John

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#522951

Postby Lootman » August 16th, 2022, 7:56 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
Julian wrote:as a layperson I do feel somewhat disappointed that it is not BA.4 or ideally BA.5 that was targeted. Just not enough time I suppose.

...I do note in the article that it is not clear yet who in the UK will get this bivalent vaccine and if it is in limited supply I can imagine it only going to the most vulnerable with the rest of the over-50s only being offered a booster with one of the previous set of vaccines

Yep - these things take time (and it always takes longer to approve the first one under a lesser "variant" approval). Yep, it would be lovely to have a BA.5 vaccine - it will be on its way, but we need a booster in September, so it's BA.1 or nothing.

Minister on LBC seems to be saying that they will have 26 million dual jabs available for an autumn campaign - ie everyone in this phase (>50, vulnerable or frontline) will get the BA.1 dual jab.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1559433759098814465

The evidence for a fourth jab working is pretty good - it's tough that BA.4/5 are so immune-escapy, but it's a choice of either a BA.1 jab or nothing, it's better than nothing. As someone with long Covid, I'm having my fourth.

Funnily enough I had my 4th jab today. My first 3 were Pfizer so I got Moderna this time just for giggles.

I wasn't willing to wait until my GP starts doing flu jabs next month as I am going on holiday next week. And I certainly wasn't going to wait until this variant jab becomes available. When it does I will get a 5th.

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539103

Postby jaizan » October 19th, 2022, 6:50 pm

I had my booster.

They told me I was getting Pfizer.
This was something of a shock, as I was expecting the Moderna bivalent vaccine, as approved in August.
I asked questions and was told it's the Pfizer bivalent vaccine, which has indeed been approved in September. Original + BA1. I missed that news.

Since the electronic record shows only Pfizer Comarnity and the batch number, I would have had no way of knowing it's a bivalent jab if I hadn't asked.

I'm very pleased to get a vaccine with some Omicron. Of course some countries might be going for a BA4/5 jab, but I'm quite happy to get a BA1 version right now.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see the electronic records updated within 24 hours, but would have expected the records to show which jab I was given.

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539134

Postby monabri » October 19th, 2022, 7:53 pm

jaizan wrote:I had my booster.

They told me I was getting Pfizer.


Me too ...I was expecting Moderna but jab number #4 last Saturday was "Pfizer Bivalent" ( I had a flu jab as well). Side effects with previous jabs were limited to a heavy arm and slight tiredness. Hardly any noticeable side effects with this one.

I hadn't realised that the Pfizer vaccine had been updated to "Bivalent".


https://www.imperial.nhs.uk/about-us/bl ... cines-2022

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539464

Postby jaizan » October 20th, 2022, 3:28 pm

monabri wrote:I had my booster. I hadn't realised that the Pfizer vaccine had been updated to "Bivalent".

What was the serial number of your vaccine ?

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539467

Postby monabri » October 20th, 2022, 3:31 pm

jaizan wrote:
monabri wrote:I had my booster. I hadn't realised that the Pfizer vaccine had been updated to "Bivalent".

What was the serial number of your vaccine ?


Batch GE3043

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539502

Postby mc2fool » October 20th, 2022, 4:59 pm

jaizan wrote:I had my booster.

They told me I was getting Pfizer.
This was something of a shock, as I was expecting the Moderna bivalent vaccine, as approved in August.
I asked questions and was told it's the Pfizer bivalent vaccine, which has indeed been approved in September. Original + BA1. I missed that news.

Since the electronic record shows only Pfizer Comarnity and the batch number, I would have had no way of knowing it's a bivalent jab if I hadn't asked.

Yes, I was expecting the Moderna bivalent one too and also got the Pfizer one instead. However, the electronic record (NHS App & Patient Access) for me says:

Comirnaty Original/Omicron BA.1 COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine 15micrograms/15micrograms/0.3ml dose dispersion for injection multidose vials (Pfizer Ltd)
0.3 ml Intramuscular


The batch number isn't shown there but is shown in the NHS COVID Pass (and on the card I was given by the jabber....)

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539562

Postby jaizan » October 20th, 2022, 6:46 pm

mc2fool wrote:The batch number isn't shown there but is shown in the NHS COVID Pass (and on the card I was given by the jabber....)


What is your batch number ?

The level of detail on your records sounds just like it should be. I wonder why mine is different ?

Here are my records: Firstly the screenshot off the app and secondly the records on the website.
Image Image

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539582

Postby mc2fool » October 20th, 2022, 7:25 pm

jaizan wrote:
mc2fool wrote:The batch number isn't shown there but is shown in the NHS COVID Pass (and on the card I was given by the jabber....)

What is your batch number ?

The same, GD6800.

jaizan wrote:The level of detail on your records sounds just like it should be. I wonder why mine is different ?

Look under View your GP health record -> Medicines -> Acute (short-term) medicines (yes, not obvious, I know...)

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#539591

Postby jaizan » October 20th, 2022, 7:37 pm

mc2fool wrote: GD6800.
Thank you. That's reassuring.

jaizan wrote: Look under View your GP health record -> Medicines -> Acute (short-term) medicines (yes, not obvious, I know...)
I have nothing at all there. No record from this vaccine or any of the last 3. No other medical records either, although to be honest, it must be almost 5 years since I last had a prescription.
It looks like I need to ask our local GP to update the records.

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Re: First Omicron-based vaccine approved in the UK (and in the world)

#541172

Postby jaizan » October 25th, 2022, 10:37 am

Following the helpful advice from MC2FOOL, I checked my GP records which were blank.

I took my passport to the GP surgery on Friday and today they have now put my GP records on the system.

Under "Consultations & Events", this shows my recent vaccine as "Vaccination - Comirnaty Original/Omicron BA.1 COVID-19 Vacc md vials Booster 0.3ml - See communication for further details."


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