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Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

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johnhemming
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Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145460

Postby johnhemming » June 13th, 2018, 4:46 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-cbi-says

Parts of British manufacturing risk becoming extinct unless the government stops talking politics to itself and starts taking action to ensure “real frictionless trade” post-Brexit, the Confederation of British Industry has said.

MPs debate customs and single market amendments to EU withdrawal bill – Politics live
Read more
The outgoing president of the CBI claimed the car industry, which employs 800,000 people, is particularly vulnerable because of its “just in time” production method.

“If we do not have a customs union, there are sectors of manufacturing society in the UK which risk becoming extinct,” Paul Drechsler said. “Be in no doubt, that is the reality,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

beeswax
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145462

Postby beeswax » June 13th, 2018, 5:12 pm

johnhemming wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/13/brexit-parts-of-uk-manufacturing-at-risk-of-extinction-cbi-says

Parts of British manufacturing risk becoming extinct unless the government stops talking politics to itself and starts taking action to ensure “real frictionless trade” post-Brexit, the Confederation of British Industry has said.

MPs debate customs and single market amendments to EU withdrawal bill – Politics live
Read more
The outgoing president of the CBI claimed the car industry, which employs 800,000 people, is particularly vulnerable because of its “just in time” production method.

“If we do not have a customs union, there are sectors of manufacturing society in the UK which risk becoming extinct,” Paul Drechsler said. “Be in no doubt, that is the reality,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.


Be in no doubt the British people have voted to leave the EU and Customs Union but the Government are seeking as 'frictionless' trade as possible and so they need to go and talk to the EU not the British Government and Barnier has said repeatedly we cannot have that same deal and so hard cheese to the CBI and any manufacturing industry that relies on the EU. Of course the JIT applies as much as to the EU as it does to us and so what we lose they will lose more...Maybe we can design and build more British Cars and have all the parts made here..

I would question his 800,000 people figure though?

Jaguar/Landrover is keen on Turkey and not the EU, work that one out?

Must be quite economical getting JIT to Turkey and not the UK or the EU???

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145471

Postby vrdiver » June 13th, 2018, 6:22 pm

beeswax wrote:Be in no doubt the British people have voted to leave the EU and Customs Union but the Government are seeking as 'frictionless' trade as possible and so they need to go and talk to the EU not the British Government and Barnier has said repeatedly we cannot have that same deal and so hard cheese to the CBI and any manufacturing industry that relies on the EU. Of course the JIT applies as much as to the EU as it does to us and so what we lose they will lose more...Maybe we can design and build more British Cars and have all the parts made here..

I would question his 800,000 people figure though?

Jaguar/Landrover is keen on Turkey and not the EU, work that one out?

Must be quite economical getting JIT to Turkey and not the UK or the EU???

We voted to leave the EU. Everything else is up for grabs, to be worked out. That includes the Customs Union, Single Market, EFTA, etc etc.

Re automotive and JIT: our problem is economy of scale: with capital-intensive industries (like car manufacturing) it makes sense to have a single manufacturing plant that then has fast supply routes to the rest of Europe. If those supply routes are disrupted, then you start to have to lay down inventory to support the same service level. At that point, your costs go through the roof.

An EU supplier would have to sacrifice service levels (so your car stays off the road for a few more days waiting for parts) or increase prices to cover their additional costs (ignoring tariffs - just the extra storage and handling costs). For a UK supplier, it's worse: they have the same capital intensive equipment, but all of the EU except the UK now has those additional costs to access, that their competitors only face in the case of the UK. If they lose customers, they will become uneconomic and (eventually) cease to trade. In the meantime, their EU competitors are hoovering up those time-sensitive customers, snowballing the effect. I've seen it happen (with reliability issues, not BREXIT issues!) and the least reliable supplier gets hosed.

Jaguar Landrover is owned by Tata, an Indian company, as is the former British Steel (merged with Hoogovens to become Corus, before being taken over by Tata) and large parts of what was once ICI. Don't expect any sentiment about "local" jobs from them: they are good employers, but their priority is to their Indian Head Office, not Westminster. Turkey is cheaper than a lot of the EU labour-wise, and expands their footprint into markets they have an interest in, beyond just the EU. With the Turkish access to EU markets anyway, Tata are very happy to invest there, rather than worry about what the UK will have access to in 5 - 10 years time.

As for the 800,000: I suspect it includes all the secondary and indirect jobs that would also be destroyed, but I'll take his word for it in the hope that we never get to find out and that our Brexit team get their act together pronto...

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145475

Postby RececaDron » June 13th, 2018, 6:37 pm

The softest of softest possible Brexits - remarkably, even softer than "kitten soft" - is now locked & loaded.

Sanity vaguely prevails, per usual.

Give it 10-15 years, and the UK will likely be in some outer-EU-ring, able to again exert significant influence, free from its self-imposed naughty step exile.

All the younger folk will be happy and roll their eyes at the bump in the road that had to be endured.

And the rest? History.

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145476

Postby Ashfordian » June 13th, 2018, 6:43 pm

johnhemming wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/13/brexit-parts-of-uk-manufacturing-at-risk-of-extinction-cbi-says

Parts of British manufacturing risk becoming extinct unless the government stops talking politics to itself and starts taking action to ensure “real frictionless trade” post-Brexit, the Confederation of British Industry has said.

MPs debate customs and single market amendments to EU withdrawal bill – Politics live
Read more
The outgoing president of the CBI claimed the car industry, which employs 800,000 people, is particularly vulnerable because of its “just in time” production method.

“If we do not have a customs union, there are sectors of manufacturing society in the UK which risk becoming extinct,” Paul Drechsler said. “Be in no doubt, that is the reality,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.


We've been here before. This is just today's coordinate remain press release ahead of the meeting at the end of the month. There will be another tomorrow, the day after and the day after that.

It's all got so predictable and boring from the project fear camp!

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145481

Postby XFool » June 13th, 2018, 6:47 pm

RececaDron wrote:The softest of softest possible Brexits - remarkably, even softer than "kitten soft" - is now locked & loaded.

Sanity vaguely prevails, per usual.

Editorial in tonight's London Evening News (Yes, I know!):

"Victory for the soft Brexit and good policy we need"
...

"And since the inevitable dynamic of the Brexit negotiatons involves handing over control of our future to the EU, as we have seen these past 24 months, a bad deal was all we were ever going to get."

XFool
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145484

Postby XFool » June 13th, 2018, 6:50 pm

Ashfordian wrote:It's all got so predictable and boring from the project fear camp!

But not one hundredth of a percent as "predictable and boring" as we know to expect from the Brexit camp.

Stonge
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145522

Postby Stonge » June 13th, 2018, 11:09 pm

It has become obvious that extremist Brexiteer sentiment, as expressed so often on here, does not reflect the views of the people (leavers or remainers) - indeed such sentiment is now being revealed as not caring whether the ordinary fellow citizen suffers significant hardship and poverty as long as we 'take back control' and stick it to the EU. A weird and callous attitude attitude that often seems to be based on still fighting WW2, which actually ended in victory for the whole of Europe in 1945.

I personally view such hideous, extremist, Brexiteer sentiment as treasonous.

beeswax
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145524

Postby beeswax » June 14th, 2018, 12:22 am

Stonge wrote:It has become obvious that extremist Brexiteer sentiment, as expressed so often on here, does not reflect the views of the people (leavers or remainers) - indeed such sentiment is now being revealed as not caring whether the ordinary fellow citizen suffers significant hardship and poverty as long as we 'take back control' and stick it to the EU. A weird and callous attitude attitude that often seems to be based on still fighting WW2, which actually ended in victory for the whole of Europe in 1945.

I personally view such hideous, extremist, Brexiteer sentiment as treasonous.


You cannot be an extremist nationalist who refuses to accept foreign powers control of your laws, borders and money as 'treason'. Its actually just the opposite..

I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?

People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.

NOT taking back control is NOT leaving the EU and what we have seen over the last two years is the political and business establishment trying to reverse the referendum result. 600 members of Parliament do not have that right to oppose 17.4 million people just because they think its a bad idea.

The extremist views are mostly on the REMAIN side and that certainly does not reflect the views of the people that voted as much as they want to think it does. The so called 'hard' Brexit was not on the ballot just leave or remain and that word was conjured up to try and put fear into people just like the 'cliff edge....

It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.

Donald Trump is saying much the same thing by telling the Europeans that the time of freebies are over and its time NATO Countries started paying their way and he sees a clear line between the US funding most of NATO and the EU putting vast tariffs on US goods...That will stop he says and I do note on here that all the people who said he was an idiot and wouldn't last 6 months are nowhere to be seen...

I' too have linked our NATO expenditure and defending the European Continent in both world wars and in peacetime vs the high and mighty EU Commission in trying to stop us having a trade deal that benefits them more than us all because they want to punish us for leaving..Trump may even pull out of NATO as he sees that as a cold war effort that has passed it sell by date....We should do the same and save our billions for the benefit of our own people...

What did the EU ever do for us??

ursaminortaur
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145526

Postby ursaminortaur » June 14th, 2018, 12:36 am

beeswax wrote:
Stonge wrote:It has become obvious that extremist Brexiteer sentiment, as expressed so often on here, does not reflect the views of the people (leavers or remainers) - indeed such sentiment is now being revealed as not caring whether the ordinary fellow citizen suffers significant hardship and poverty as long as we 'take back control' and stick it to the EU. A weird and callous attitude attitude that often seems to be based on still fighting WW2, which actually ended in victory for the whole of Europe in 1945.

I personally view such hideous, extremist, Brexiteer sentiment as treasonous.


You cannot be an extremist nationalist who refuses to accept foreign powers control of your laws, borders and money as 'treason'. Its actually just the opposite..

I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?


People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.


Isn't your last statement precisely you taking "it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want" ?

As has been repeatedly pointed out leading leave campaigners stated on many occasions that we should be like Norway or like Switzerland and leave.EU adopted a version of Richard North's Flexcit plan for leaving the EU which requires transitional membership of the EEA. People voted for a large variety of reasons many of which really had nothing to do with the EU eg giving David Cameron and his government a bloody nose.

Sundance13
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145529

Postby Sundance13 » June 14th, 2018, 6:38 am

The EUReferendum blog today is related to the subject matter and quite shocking, if this is reflective across the whole of U.K. industry, I’ve seriously understated the issues/risks of a no deal Brexit, which for me remains marginally the most likely outcome (unplanned no deal).

http://eureferendum.com

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145537

Postby XFool » June 14th, 2018, 8:41 am

beeswax wrote:I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?

People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.

Err right...

beeswax wrote:It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.

Did you forget about the Russians?

beeswax wrote:Trump may even pull out of NATO as he sees that as a cold war effort that has passed it sell by date....We should do the same and save our billions for the benefit of our own people...

Quite apart from anything else, that raises the interesting question of exactly who now are "our own people".

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145539

Postby mosschops » June 14th, 2018, 8:49 am

beeswax wrote:
Stonge wrote:It has become obvious that extremist Brexiteer sentiment, as expressed so often on here, does not reflect the views of the people (leavers or remainers) - indeed such sentiment is now being revealed as not caring whether the ordinary fellow citizen suffers significant hardship and poverty as long as we 'take back control' and stick it to the EU. A weird and callous attitude attitude that often seems to be based on still fighting WW2, which actually ended in victory for the whole of Europe in 1945.

I personally view such hideous, extremist, Brexiteer sentiment as treasonous.


You cannot be an extremist nationalist who refuses to accept foreign powers control of your laws, borders and money as 'treason'. Its actually just the opposite..

I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?

People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.

NOT taking back control is NOT leaving the EU and what we have seen over the last two years is the political and business establishment trying to reverse the referendum result. 600 members of Parliament do not have that right to oppose 17.4 million people just because they think its a bad idea.

The extremist views are mostly on the REMAIN side and that certainly does not reflect the views of the people that voted as much as they want to think it does. The so called 'hard' Brexit was not on the ballot just leave or remain and that word was conjured up to try and put fear into people just like the 'cliff edge....

It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.

Donald Trump is saying much the same thing by telling the Europeans that the time of freebies are over and its time NATO Countries started paying their way and he sees a clear line between the US funding most of NATO and the EU putting vast tariffs on US goods...That will stop he says and I do note on here that all the people who said he was an idiot and wouldn't last 6 months are nowhere to be seen...

I' too have linked our NATO expenditure and defending the European Continent in both world wars and in peacetime vs the high and mighty EU Commission in trying to stop us having a trade deal that benefits them more than us all because they want to punish us for leaving..Trump may even pull out of NATO as he sees that as a cold war effort that has passed it sell by date....We should do the same and save our billions for the benefit of our own people...

What did the EU ever do for us??


We spend about 150 million a year on NATO, it’s not billions, that’s off by a factor of at least 18.

BobbyD
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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145540

Postby BobbyD » June 14th, 2018, 8:58 am

beeswax wrote:I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?

People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.


Another classic...

beeswax wrote:It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.


There really would have been, it would just have been a victory for the flag waving nationalists who thought that the rest of the world should simply accept their superiority and do as they were damn well told.

By the way, even as far back as 1945 the UK was a part of Europe.

beeswax wrote:What did the EU ever do for us??


The People's Front of Britannia...

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145546

Postby Stonge » June 14th, 2018, 9:22 am

beeswax wrote:It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.


And that says it all and therein lies the aggressor's problem, It's all very tribal and sad really.



.

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145573

Postby RececaDron » June 14th, 2018, 11:03 am

BobbyD wrote:
beeswax wrote:I wonder why people take it on themselves to express what THEY think is what is what others voted for or want?

People voted to LEAVE the EU that includes ALL its institutions as we cannot be half in and half out.


Another classic...


Beyond parody, innit.

The lack of self-awareness is simply mind-blowing.

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145674

Postby BhotiPila » June 14th, 2018, 8:45 pm

beeswax wrote:What did the EU ever do for us??

BobbyD wrote:The People's Front of Britannia...

And not forgetting:
sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, public health and peace,

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145676

Postby Nimrod103 » June 14th, 2018, 8:57 pm

BhotiPila wrote:
beeswax wrote:What did the EU ever do for us??

BobbyD wrote:The People's Front of Britannia...

And not forgetting:
sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, public health and peace,


Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset.
Tacitus

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145679

Postby Charlottesquare » June 14th, 2018, 9:30 pm

beeswax wrote:
It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.



Depends if you consider Russia and the Soviet union Europe, not sure the Americans and ourselves (with the Commonwealth and Empire) would have fared that well on D Day if the Soviets had not been tying down a large portion of the Axis troops.

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Re: Brexit: parts of UK manufacturing 'at risk of extinction', CBI says

#145686

Postby Nimrod103 » June 14th, 2018, 10:00 pm

Charlottesquare wrote:
beeswax wrote:
It was certainly NOT victory for 'Europe' in 1945, because without the British and American forces, there would not have been a victory in Europe.



Depends if you consider Russia and the Soviet union Europe, not sure the Americans and ourselves (with the Commonwealth and Empire) would have fared that well on D Day if the Soviets had not been tying down a large portion of the Axis troops.


Without our material assistance, provided via the Arctic convoys, the Soviet Union would not have been able to wage war against the Germans. In fact given the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of 1939, the Soviet contribution to causing WW2 is quite clear. It is also sobering to think how little the Nazi occupied countries actually did to gain their own freedom, being dependent on US/UK/Soviet invasion. Even the French Resistance were not much help to us (according to Lindybeige).


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