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The Dividend Letter discontinued

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
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Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
EssDeeAitch
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The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196330

Postby EssDeeAitch » January 25th, 2019, 6:04 am

Not sure if this is the correct place for this post??

Just received an email from the publishers of TDL informing me that the next one will be the last one. The subscription level has dropped below economic viability and so the publishers (Southbank Investment Research) have pulled the plug.

There was no comment by Stephen Bland in the notice.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196333

Postby MDS1951 » January 25th, 2019, 7:04 am

I was one of those who helped put the nails in the coffin - I phoned them earlier this month to say I wouldn't be renewing my subscription as I wouldn't be adding to my HYP.

It's a logical outcome of Pyad's investing philosophy. You are supposed to never sell or tinker, so when you decide your HYP is complete you don't need the DL any more.

MDS1951

idpickering
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196337

Postby idpickering » January 25th, 2019, 7:27 am

I've never bought into this. I prefer doing my own research, and the thoughts of our gang here. Stephen mentions ignoring the experts, maybe, with respect to him, people shouldn't blindly follow his stock suggestions either?

Ian.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196368

Postby pyad » January 25th, 2019, 9:23 am

idpickering wrote:I've never bought into this. I prefer doing my own research, and the thoughts of our gang here. Stephen mentions ignoring the experts, maybe, with respect to him, people shouldn't blindly follow his stock suggestions either?

Ian.


Not everybody is willing or able to do their own research Ian. It's a bit like any project, eg. fitting a new kitchen or whatever. Some can do it themselves, some may be able to manage it with help from others, some who can't do either for any reason will opt to have it done for them,

Although TDL has closed due to falling subs, it lasted about eleven years and did show that there were quite a number of people requiring clear unequivocal advice on HYP construction which is not available on a forum like this. The latter will typically give conflicting advice due to the number of different views expressed by what you call the "gang" here. TDL and this board, and before it TMF, served largely different markets.

As MDS1951 says and like Marx's view of capitalism, it did contain the seeds of its own destruction because completed HYPs no longer needed TDL. I knew this from the start.

OLTB
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196387

Postby OLTB » January 25th, 2019, 10:17 am

Morning all

I started my HYP back in 2016 and used pyad's letter to construct the constituents over a number of months into 2017 - I will miss the *ahem* straight talking, but I'm sure we will see more of the same here! So far the HYP is working well (delivering an increasing income) and for that I'm grateful and happy to have spent the money.

I really enjoy the discussions on this board and am grateful that if there is ever another major Corporate Event on one of the HYP shares, there's a wealth of knowledge and experience to ask some really dumb questions.

Cheers, OLTB.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196396

Postby idpickering » January 25th, 2019, 10:40 am

pyad wrote:
idpickering wrote:I've never bought into this. I prefer doing my own research, and the thoughts of our gang here. Stephen mentions ignoring the experts, maybe, with respect to him, people shouldn't blindly follow his stock suggestions either?

Ian.


Not everybody is willing or able to do their own research Ian. It's a bit like any project, eg. fitting a new kitchen or whatever. Some can do it themselves, some may be able to manage it with help from others, some who can't do either for any reason will opt to have it done for them,

Although TDL has closed due to falling subs, it lasted about eleven years and did show that there were quite a number of people requiring clear unequivocal advice on HYP construction which is not available on a forum like this. The latter will typically give conflicting advice due to the number of different views expressed by what you call the "gang" here. TDL and this board, and before it TMF, served largely different markets.

As MDS1951 says and like Marx's view of capitalism, it did contain the seeds of its own destruction because completed HYPs no longer needed TDL. I knew this from the start.


Morning Stephen, thanks for your input. I do get where you're coming from, and you should be commended for offering your expertise as you do. I have learnt a lot from you, so thank you. I'm no expert, make mistakes, and am still learning, even after years of HYPing.

Ian.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196406

Postby Dod101 » January 25th, 2019, 11:01 am

pyad wrote:As MDS1951 says and like Marx's view of capitalism, it did contain the seeds of its own destruction because completed HYPs no longer needed TDL. I knew this from the start.


The snag with that argument is of course that there cannot simply be a finite number of investors looking for an income strategy. There are always new investors coming along as is evidenced on these Boards. More likely people have got fed up of Mr Bland's style or high yield investing is going out of fashion, at least for the time being.

Dod

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196474

Postby Lootman » January 25th, 2019, 3:22 pm

Dod101 wrote:
pyad wrote:As MDS1951 says and like Marx's view of capitalism, it did contain the seeds of its own destruction because completed HYPs no longer needed TDL. I knew this from the start.

The snag with that argument is of course that there cannot simply be a finite number of investors looking for an income strategy. There are always new investors coming along as is evidenced on these Boards. More likely people have got fed up of Mr Bland's style or high yield investing is going out of fashion, at least for the time being.

There have been a fair number of accidents, or even disasters, in recent years featuring HY shares. That is not limited to the various financial companies that crashed a decade ago. It also includes some prominent names in sectors like retail and support services.

Insofar as this, or any other, tipsheet was advocating those shares then subscribers might start to think that it's not worth the cost, and/or doubt the quality of the underlying research.

I've never subscribed to any kind of tipsheet and especially not one from a non-professional person or entity. But I suspect that a tipsheet that produces above average returns would grow its subscriber base over time, as word spreads of its quality. But without being able to see what shares were recommended and when, it's hard to assess this particular one.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196484

Postby Wizard » January 25th, 2019, 4:00 pm

Dod101 wrote:
pyad wrote:As MDS1951 says and like Marx's view of capitalism, it did contain the seeds of its own destruction because completed HYPs no longer needed TDL. I knew this from the start.


The snag with that argument is of course that there cannot simply be a finite number of investors looking for an income strategy. There are always new investors coming along as is evidenced on these Boards. More likely people have got fed up of Mr Bland's style or high yield investing is going out of fashion, at least for the time being.

Dod

Yes, PYAD's line of argument did seem rather odd to me as well. But a third alternative to your suggested reasons for this outcome may be that new comers to high yield equity investments knew nothing of TDL's existence, I for one have never seen it mentioned anywhere but here so I suspect little if any marketing took place.

Terry.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196487

Postby OhNoNotimAgain » January 25th, 2019, 4:08 pm

As most stockbrokers discovered in 2018 after MIFID 2 came in there is a very limited market for paid for research.

It is made more difficult by the fact that most fund managers, and PIs, think they know everything anyway.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196489

Postby Dod101 » January 25th, 2019, 4:16 pm

The only tip sheet I ever subscribed to was The Fleet Street Letter. I must say I found it very helpful but cannot remember why I gave it up. It tipped Tullow Oil I remember, a long time ago and I did very well from that. However one swallow and all that. Certainly I find income investing is much more difficult now with a lot of the shares a bit 'iffy'. They used to be defensive. Still now might be the time for pyad to be doing well considering the yields on offer.

Dod

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196493

Postby Lootman » January 25th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Wizard wrote:PYAD's line of argument did seem rather odd to me as well. But a third alternative to your suggested reasons for this outcome may be that new comers to high yield equity investments knew nothing of TDL's existence, I for one have never seen it mentioned anywhere but here so I suspect little if any marketing took place.

Most newcomers to HYP would arrive by way of either TMF or TLF because HYP really does not have a public profile outside of those sites. If you were not a Lemon or Fool, you would likely never have heard of HYP. It's a home-brewed strategy.

A fourth reason the tipsheet might have failed is because there is another and better resource for it, i.e. this board. And the tipsheet is rarely mentioned here, presumably both because Bland isn't allowed to promote it here and because there are some very smart investors here like TJH who provide excellent advice and expertise for free.

So I'm also not sure that I buy Bland's claim that it was planned obsolescence or is a victim of its own success. Few tipsheets last forever as styles and fashions change, or some bad outcomes inevitably happen. He might have been better off just saying that he's getting too old for this malarky. I know the feeling :D

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196499

Postby Backache » January 25th, 2019, 4:38 pm

I've never been a HYP investor though I've followed the board a little bit . I can't help but wonder though if this is a contrarian indicator and dividend investing may be about to outperform the general market.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196504

Postby Dod101 » January 25th, 2019, 4:48 pm

Backache wrote:I've never been a HYP investor though I've followed the board a little bit . I can't help but wonder though if this is a contrarian indicator and dividend investing may be about to outperform the general market.


That is really the point IO was making earlier. The yields on offer currently from what appear to be perfectly good companies seem extraordinary and cannot believe that they are going to be like that for ever, so as you say, now might be their time...

Dod

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196543

Postby tjh290633 » January 25th, 2019, 9:04 pm

Lootman wrote:
Wizard wrote:PYAD's line of argument did seem rather odd to me as well. But a third alternative to your suggested reasons for this outcome may be that new comers to high yield equity investments knew nothing of TDL's existence, I for one have never seen it mentioned anywhere but here so I suspect little if any marketing took place.

Most newcomers to HYP would arrive by way of either TMF or TLF because HYP really does not have a public profile outside of those sites. If you were not a Lemon or Fool, you would likely never have heard of HYP. It's a home-brewed strategy.

A fourth reason the tipsheet might have failed is because there is another and better resource for it, i.e. this board. And the tipsheet is rarely mentioned here, presumably both because Bland isn't allowed to promote it here and because there are some very smart investors here like TJH who provide excellent advice and expertise for free.

So I'm also not sure that I buy Bland's claim that it was planned obsolescence or is a victim of its own success. Few tipsheets last forever as styles and fashions change, or some bad outcomes inevitably happen. He might have been better off just saying that he's getting too old for this malarky. I know the feeling :D

I have seen HYP mentioned in a number of others places. ADVFN is one, This is Money was another until they closed their discussion boards. Some of this may have been due to people frequenting several forums.

Cross fertilisation in practice.

TJH

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196567

Postby csearle » January 25th, 2019, 10:45 pm

pyad wrote:...
While not wishing to appear in any way sycophantic I do feel that your contributions to TMF and here on your value/HYP philosophy have been a great bonus to us all.

There is much to be said for those that quietly and diligently follow in their own way the HYP strategy-set that you have advocated.

I hope that you have enjoyed writing The Dividend Letter.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196611

Postby Wizard » January 26th, 2019, 10:23 am

At a loose end so thought I would have a look at the Southbank Investment Research website to see what else they do. Seems they publish a number of investment letters / tip sheets, including The Fleet Street Letter Dod mentioned. Interestingly The Dividend Letter's details are yet to be removed, but I do find the first line of the blurb a bit surprising, as it says:
Stephen Bland’s High Yielding Portfolio (HYP) strategy is a simple, yet powerful way to grow your wealth.

My bold.

For a strategy where income is king and capital is secondary I find it very odd (indeed potentially misleading) to use that claim as the opening gambit. Given the hit to capital many have reported in their HYPs in 2018, if people believed that The Dividend Letter was about wealth and not income then it would not be a surprise if subscriber numbers had taken a hit o er the last twelve months.

Looking at the Website also suggests that the title of this board needs to change, this was PYAD's own publication so from the horses mouth so to speak and it refers to High Yielding Portfolio, whereas the board is for the High Yield Portfolio... ;)

Terry.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196699

Postby Lootman » January 26th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Wizard wrote:For a strategy where income is king and capital is secondary I find it very odd (indeed potentially misleading) to use that claim as the opening gambit. Given the hit to capital many have reported in their HYPs in 2018, if people believed that The Dividend Letter was about wealth and not income then it would not be a surprise if subscriber numbers had taken a hit o er the last twelve months.

That disconnect is even more acute because HYP has at times been promoted as an annuity substitute. That rather implies that wealth is actually eroded in order to provide a higher level of running income than otherwise possible.

That said, is it possible that the goal of the tipsheet (which I have never seen) was slightly or somewhat different from the goals of HYP as it is referred to here? After all, TDL is Bland's own personal method whereas HYP here is more a consensus of the TMF/TLF community, which has evolved over time.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196708

Postby Arborbridge » January 26th, 2019, 4:27 pm

Lootman wrote:
Wizard wrote:For a strategy where income is king and capital is secondary I find it very odd (indeed potentially misleading) to use that claim as the opening gambit. Given the hit to capital many have reported in their HYPs in 2018, if people believed that The Dividend Letter was about wealth and not income then it would not be a surprise if subscriber numbers had taken a hit o er the last twelve months.

That disconnect is even more acute because HYP has at times been promoted as an annuity substitute. That rather implies that wealth is actually eroded in order to provide a higher level of running income than otherwise possible.

That said, is it possible that the goal of the tipsheet (which I have never seen) was slightly or somewhat different from the goals of HYP as it is referred to here? After all, TDL is Bland's own personal method whereas HYP here is more a consensus of the TMF/TLF community, which has evolved over time.


I'm not sure I acknowledge the disconnect that you see. If you want the income, take it, if not keep it invested and it becomes a wealth creating strategy - but then, income taken and reinvested are both "wealth" 8-)
It a wealth creating strategy as the positive XIRR we all achieve demonstrates, and is one of many - no one said it was the very best!
I think we are just waying with plords again on a boring Saturday afternoon :) .

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196709

Postby Arborbridge » January 26th, 2019, 4:37 pm

csearle wrote:
pyad wrote:...
While not wishing to appear in any way sycophantic I do feel that your contributions to TMF and here on your value/HYP philosophy have been a great bonus to us all.

There is much to be said for those that quietly and diligently follow in their own way the HYP strategy-set that you have advocated.

I hope that you have enjoyed writing The Dividend Letter.

Regards,
Chris


I'd like to endorse those thoughts, and add that finding HYP as I did in 2006 has been a great benefit for me at a time when I had a reasonable pension pot to invest.
Although I didn't subscribed to the Dividend Letter, I'm sure it was very helpful. Why subscribers fell away, we can debate - lack of marketing and the dip in the FTSE probably all contributed. However, I doubt that it was Stephen's style which I always enjoyed and found convincing and inspirational. The ideas he promoted are so direct and simple, and so far removed from the norm, that it took me several years to get used to them. The HYP philosophy surrounding Doris is so weird and unconventional that even convinced followers buck against it in one way or another. That's most of us here.


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