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Standard Life products

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Alaric
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Re: Standard Life products

#188952

Postby Alaric » December 23rd, 2018, 1:39 pm

Darwin200 wrote: SL GARS fund


Global Absolute Returns Strategies.

It doesn't seem to have done particularly well, showing a loss over the last five years, and that's even on the accumulation units.

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/s ... 1VFQ&tab=1

DavidM13
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Re: Standard Life products

#199891

Postby DavidM13 » February 8th, 2019, 12:43 pm

Darwin200 wrote:2000 - 2017

You can use a FTSE Allshare index charging 0.25%(annually) for cpmparison. Pound cost averaging. Say £500 per month for the duration.

I love the SL GARS fund though as it conned the financial sector completely. Our default pension scheme had some investments in this and it always looked like snake oil. I have always self-invested in an Allshare tracker.

I know some Financial Advice companies had their own pension funds 100% invested in this. Persuaded by their own mis-information. A classic case of being hoisted by your own petard!



I am so sorry for the delay! i completely missed this! I just did a standard one period cumulative return. I did NOT add any costs to the FTSE Tracker.

Look where it ranks against the UK funds!! This is GBP Market Price Total Return 31/12/1999-31/12/2018. This is pretty compelling surely? Trackers are OK in the bull market but when things hit the fan i would want an active manager to see me through. All returns are net of costs of course.

Rights & Issues Investment Trust Ord UK Smaller Companies 1,005.34
Fidelity Special Values Ord UK All Companies 773.68
Invesco Perpetual UK Smaller Ord UK Smaller Companies 703.07
BlackRock Throgmorton Trust plc UK Smaller Companies 617.70
BlackRock Smaller Companies Ord UK Smaller Companies 585.68
Aberforth Smaller Companies Ord UK Smaller Companies 581.90
Finsbury Growth & Income Ord UK Equity Income 551.12
Lowland Ord UK Equity Income 529.03
Chelverton UK Dividend Trust Ord UK Equity Income 520.31
Athelney Trust Ord UK Smaller Companies 485.67
Mercantile Ord UK All Companies 473.14
Perpetual Income & Growth Ord UK Equity Income 432.40
JPMorgan Mid Cap Ord UK All Companies 389.06
JPMorgan Smaller Companies Ord UK Smaller Companies 358.01
Montanaro UK Smaller Companies Ord UK Smaller Companies 350.93
Value And Income Ord UK Equity Income 338.16
Schroder Income Growth Ord UK Equity Income 332.78
Temple Bar Ord UK Equity Income 296.33
Invesco Income Growth Ord UK Equity Income 262.70
Murray Income Trust Ord UK Equity Income 260.52
BMO Capital & Income Ord UK Equity Income 237.30
Aberdeen Standard Equity Inc Trust Ord UK Equity Income 225.72
City of London Ord UK Equity Income 218.54
Merchants Trust Ord UK Equity Income 217.05
Manchester & London Ord UK All Companies 201.70
Troy Income & Growth Ord UK Equity Income 196.44
Standard Life UK Smaller Co. Ord UK Smaller Companies 172.27
Keystone Ord UK All Companies 164.62
Investment Company Ord UK Equity Income 145.77
Dunedin Income Growth Ord UK Equity Income 140.11
Edinburgh Investment Ord UK Equity Income 137.38
JPMorgan Claverhouse Ord UK Equity Income 132.69
Henderson Smaller Companies Ord UK Smaller Companies 115.70
FTSE AllSh TR GBP 115.62
Baillie Gifford UK Growth UK All Companies 96.81
British & American Ord UK Equity Income 85.33
Shires Income Ord UK Equity Income 85.03
Aurora Ord UK All Companies 84.16
Jupiter UK Growth Ord UK All Companies 74.13

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Re: Standard Life products

#199894

Postby DavidM13 » February 8th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Avantegarde wrote:Trackers certainly ARE the investment of choice for a 30-year timescale. They will save you (roughly) 1% of your accumulated wealth each and every year due to their low charges which, over that time, will mean you keep a vast chunk of your own wealth instead of giving it to an investment "manager" who may well do worse than the index.


According to the above rough and ready study he has an 88% chance of beating the index after costs for 18 year time horizon.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200338

Postby Darwin200 » February 10th, 2019, 3:45 pm

Thanks for that. I don't need the GBP Market Price Total Return, I need to know performance using pound cost averaging against those funds.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200470

Postby DavidM13 » February 11th, 2019, 9:49 am

That will take a long time for me but i thought this was a pretty good indicator personally.

Darwin200
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Re: Standard Life products

#200491

Postby Darwin200 » February 11th, 2019, 10:36 am

Thanks for that. I am genuinely interested and can diversify if required,

But all you seem to have done is divide the current value of the indices by the values in 1999. That isn't strictly relevant for PCA.

If there is an online tool that can work it out though, please let me know.

I need numbers of what the fund would be worth using the figures I provided using PCA over that time period.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200517

Postby DavidM13 » February 11th, 2019, 11:45 am

Darwin200 wrote:Thanks for that. I am genuinely interested and can diversify if required,

But all you seem to have done is divide the current value of the indices by the values in 1999. That isn't strictly relevant for PCA.

If there is an online tool that can work it out though, please let me know.

I need numbers of what the fund would be worth using the figures I provided using PCA over that time period.


I didn't just divide the indices as that would be a raw return and pretty meaningless. I returned the Price Total Return (ie. dividends re-invested at the prevailing price/index value on the ex dividend date). . So therefore, to pick a fund at random. I am saying if you invested £100 in 1999 in Lowland it would now be worth £629.03 including your initial 100 pounds. which includes the capital uplift and all dividends reinvested in this time period. I agree that pound cost averaging is more like the investor experience than a buy and hold but i maintain this is a good proxy! otherwise i have to work out how to do PCA on Morningstar and that could take a while!

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Re: Standard Life products

#200717

Postby Darwin200 » February 11th, 2019, 11:41 pm

Not a problem.

Though I have a very comfortable six figure sum in my DC retirement pot, I am willing to entertain putting part of the capital into a separate fund for purely capital growth long term, so will be interested what you recommend.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200779

Postby DavidM13 » February 12th, 2019, 10:22 am

I would never recommend an individual investment company. I am not qualified to do so. I was just pointing out that in most (but by no means all) of the studies i have seen actives seems to outdo passives, even including costs, and CEFs tend to outperform Open ended. As I have mentioned on here previously, I have skin in the game on CEFs which is why I would only ever provide facts and data rather than my opinion.

I do maintain that with a 20 year horizon I wouldn't be high in passives compared to actives as you are likely to see two crashes and want someone far smarter than me to guide the portfolio through it.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200835

Postby Darwin200 » February 12th, 2019, 1:53 pm

Warren Buffett is fairly smart from what I've heard ;)

The logic is simple: If you are going to be a net buyer of stocks in the future, either directly with your own
money or indirectly (through your ownership of a company that is repurchasing shares), you are hurt when stocks
rise. You benefit when stocks swoon. Emotions, however, too often complicate the matter: Most people, including
those who will be net buyers in the future, take comfort in seeing stock prices advance. These shareholders resemble
a commuter who rejoices after the price of gas increases, simply because his tank contains a day’s supply.
Charlie and I don’t expect to win many of you over to our way of thinking – we’ve observed enough
human behavior to know the futility of that – but we do want you to be aware of our personal calculus. And here
a confession is in order: In my early days I, too, rejoiced when the market rose. Then I read Chapter Eight of Ben
Graham’s The Intelligent Investor, the chapter dealing with how investors should view fluctuations in stock
prices. Immediately the scales fell from my eyes, and low prices became my friend. Picking up that book was one
of the luckiest moments in my life.

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Re: Standard Life products

#200840

Postby StOmer » February 12th, 2019, 2:20 pm

We have compared our IT portfolios against the Vanguard life Strategy 80% fund since those funds became available. We remain in a portfolio of active IT's as they have outperformed the VLS with one exception, that is when we tend to wait too long after selling during a bad time in the markets. The reason appears to be that we are too slow in re-entering the market. However, over time it is clear that a portfolio of IT's can outperform but it does take a little work.

The reason for our checking against the VLS is quite simple, in the event of my passing then my wife will move into the VLS as she has no interest in managing the investments. That seems to be the best course of action.


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