Musk endeavours

[BobbyD]

Looks like the Taycan had a nice gentle day out at Goodwood, but the VW ID3 smashed the 20 year old hill climb record previously held by Nick Heidfeld and a McLaren MP4/13. That car is quite fast.

Taycan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVn2eUgKYoc

ID3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8il5ohB8FYk

[BobbyD]

BMW's Klaus Frölich says calls for long range BEVs are "complete bulls**t" because Europeans can't afford them.
“There is no customer requests for BEVs,” said Klaus Frölich, BMW’s director of development, at an interview in Munich last week. “There are regulator requests for BEVs.”

- https://insideevs.com/news/357048/bmw-d ... peans-evs/

BMW chief executive Harald Krüger to step down

...Kalus Fröhlich, head of research and development, and Oliver Zipse, head of production, are both earmarked as the strongest internal candidates to replace Mr Krüger, who has held his post since 2015.

- https://www.ft.com/content/3238282e-9f0 ... 640c9feebb

or google: BMW chief executive Harald Krüger to step down

[redsturgeon]

Looks like the Taycan had a nice gentle day out at Goodwood, but the VW ID3 smashed the 20 year old hill climb record previously held by Nick Heidfeld and a McLaren MP4/13. That car is quite fast.

Taycan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVn2eUgKYoc

ID3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8il5ohB8FYk

IDR rather than ID3. But that brick wall looks horrible at those sort of speeds!

John

[BobbyD]

rather than ID3.

OK, that's weird, once as a typo I could understand but twice in the same post? I must have MEB on the brain! Speaking of which

FRANKFURT/DETROIT -- Ford and Volkswagen have reached an outline agreement to share electric and autonomous car technologies, extending their alliance beyond commercial vehicles, a source familiar with the matter said.

VW will share its MEB electric vehicle platform with Ford, the source said.

- https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... eport-says

But that brick wall looks horrible at those sort of speeds!

Not for long!

[Howard]

I guess readers will find this review uncontentious

"Jaguar I-Pace review: Britain still builds the best electric car in the world – for now"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/jaguar ... ctric-car/

As others have written, European (and British) drivers may prefer a more traditional feel for a BEV. The Jaguar certainly looks a nice car if you have a ridiculous amount of money to spend (roughly the same price as a Tesla Model X). Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me. The reviewer really liked the car.

We'll see how it and its variants sell in Europe - time will tell if it lives up to the Telegraph headline.

I've owned a Jag or two in the past and they were lovely cars. Let's hope the brand can restore some of its pre-diesel gloss.

regards

Howard

[BobbyD]

Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me.

It faded out for me just after it appeared to claim Jag were the best car maker in the world, but before the explanation, or punchline!

[BobbyD]

Mini Cooper SE predicted under 140 miles range, £30k. i3 guts in ICE mini shell.

- https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... ectric-ev/

BMW unveils electric Mini as it charges into new era
New model will have list price of £24,400, with first deliveries expected in early 2020

...The first deliveries to customers are expected in the first quarter of 2020, with a list price of £24,400, after the government’s plug-in car grant of £3,500 has been applied.The first deliveries to customers are expected in the first quarter of 2020, with a list price of £24,400, after the government’s plug-in car grant of £3,500 has been applied.

...The new chief executive will oversee a plan to launch 25 new electrified models by 2023, with at least 13 full-electric rather than hybrid. However, the company has also hedged its bets by producing its full-electric, hybrid, and internal combustion models using the same underlying blueprint and the same production lines – meaning it can quickly switch between fuel types in response to customer demand.

- https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... mini-price

[Howard]

Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me.

It faded out for me just after it appeared to claim Jag were the best car maker in the world, but before the explanation, or punchline!

Here are a few quotes to give a flavour of the article:

“In terms of quality and finish, meanwhile, it feels a cut above Tesla’s SUV contender, the Model X, though it lacks that car’s minimalist futurism”

“While it rides better than the Tesla Model X, then, an Audi E-Tron is more composed. It also does a much better job of damping out wind and road noise at speed; neither becomes overly intrusive in the Jaguar”

“Of course, the payoff for that slightly stiff-legged ride comes when you want to have some fun. The I-Pace is just about the most entertaining electric car there is to drive.”

“But ultimately, it’s less compromised than the competition that has come along since it was launched. It might be tough at the top, then – but that’s where the I-Pace remains.”

Just one reviewer's comments, but I think he probably knows what the well-heeled Telegraph reader might enjoy owning/leasing.

regards

Howard

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/jaguar ... ctric-car/

[BobbyD]

Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me.

It faded out for me just after it appeared to claim Jag were the best car maker in the world, but before the explanation, or punchline!

Here are a few quotes to give a flavour of the article:

“In terms of quality and finish, meanwhile, it feels a cut above Tesla’s SUV contender, the Model X, though it lacks that car’s minimalist futurism”

“While it rides better than the Tesla Model X, then, an Audi E-Tron is more composed. It also does a much better job of damping out wind and road noise at speed; neither becomes overly intrusive in the Jaguar”

“Of course, the payoff for that slightly stiff-legged ride comes when you want to have some fun. The I-Pace is just about the most entertaining electric car there is to drive.”

“But ultimately, it’s less compromised than the competition that has come along since it was launched. It might be tough at the top, then – but that’s where the I-Pace remains.”

Just one reviewer's comments, but I think he probably knows what the well-heeled Telegraph reader might enjoy owning/leasing.

regards

Howard

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/jaguar ... ctric-car/

Gave up on the telegraph after they gave Kelvin Mackenzie a column, after contributing to the BTL stink which made sure it was only ever one column...

Any idea why they've decided to review it now?

[dspp]

I wouldn't be quite so fast to eulogise Jaguar's EV tech:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-j ... s-remorse/
- dspp

[BobbyD]

I wouldn't be quite so fast to eulogise Jaguar's EV tech:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-j ... s-remorse/
- dspp

Another small company with service issues!

Elon Musk: Tesla is not going to ‘refresh’ Model S and Model X, only ‘minor changes’ coming

...Tesla CEO Elon Musk claims that the automaker is not going to ‘refresh’ the Model S and Model X and only ‘minor ongoing changes’ are coming.

What does he mean by that?
Earlier this year, Tesla upgraded its Model S and Model X lineup with a new motor and suspension, but a bigger upgrade, sometimes referred to as a “refresh”, has been anticipated by the end of the year.

Now Musk, who has often claimed that Tesla doesn’t do “refreshes”, stated that “no ‘refreshed’ Model X or Model S” is coming.

However, he confirmed that a series of “minor ongoing changes” are in the work.

- https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesla-no ... elon-musk/

Tesla Autopilot team loses several more engineers as Elon Musk takes over

- https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesla-au ... akes-over/

Good job there are no imminent self-imposed future of the company defining deadlines for AP...

[BobbyD]

Moneybox: Electric Cars

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006ls4

[BobbyD]

Another ID3 vid. Autocar take it for a spin and get their chance to play with the MEB display.

Interesting fact: All 3 battery sizes will use the same battery casing. In the small battery version it will be 2/3 full, it will be full in the medium battery version, and there will be two extra battery modules added alongside the main casing.

Apparently they are doing similar to the E-tron and only using and claiming ~90% of the actual battery capacity at any one time.

2020 Volkswagen ID 3 driven | Will VW's EV change the world? | Autocar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8cHHNPRg-c

[dspp]

Some TSLA GM% insight here to digest later,
https://seekingalpha.com/article/427433 ... app=1&dr=1

"In their last earnings report the company said,

"We continue to target a 25% non-GAAP gross margin on Model S, Model X and Model 3, depending on variant mix and option take rates as our product offerings change."

Both S&X and Model 3 margins were about 20% in Q1. If Tesla sticks to the 25% goal that means margins should expand as we go through the year."

The upside cases I explored a week or so ago used 30% and 35% GM, and as I indicated I thought that was pretty high and ought to come down, but it was the best data I had.

Anyway I'll think about it some more idc.

- dspp

[BobbyD]

Out with the old

The Volkswagen Beetle has ended production. The iconic car has been a staple of Volkswagen's line-up since 1945, racking up more than 21 million sales worldwide across its three generations. The last ever model rolled off the firm’s production line on Wednesday 10th July in Puebla, Mexico.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswage ... nally-ends

...and in with the new

Pre-production examples of the Volkswagen ID.3 have begun rolling off the assembly in Zwickau, Germany. Before traditional car manufacturers introduce a new model, they build a few hundred or a few thousand pre-production vehicles. These are used for real world testing and for determining if the assembly line has got its sums right. They are tested for cold and hot weather performance, their fit and finish is rigorously assessed, and any issues or defects are reported back to management so changes and improvements can be put in place before final production begins.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/11/vo ... n-of-id-3/

The ID3 dashboard display has also be seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iinlaeg403Q

...as well as photos of the second screen https://insideevs.com/news/359140/video ... dashboard/

[BobbyD]

Ford's European BEV plan.

Buy German.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”

[Howard]

Ford's European BEV plan.

Buy German.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”

I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month.

Howard

[dspp]

Ford's European BEV plan.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”

1. So Ford is planning to start delivering a BEV in Europe in 2023, that uses a product architecture that is perhaps comparable with the best-in-class BEV (Tesla) now. Do they realise 2023 is 4-years away.

2. So Ford is openly admitting it doesn't have a competitive BEV architecture, hence using the VAG MEB architecture & supply chain.

3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.

4. So VAG is planning at least 15 million cars off the MEB platform in a decade, including dino-juice variants. That would be about 1.5m/year ........

5. There is not a single announcement about firm battery manufacturing capacity in that announcement for either Ford or VAG.

Do the incumbents realise how their proud announcements get read ? No matter how much they spin it these are admissions of failure. And the amount of capital being wasted by both Ford and VAG (and all legacy dino-juice) makes Tesla look positively parsimonious.

At a build rate of (say) one factory every 2-3 years Tesla will have a 1.5-million per year mfg capacity of both batteries and cars, with a factory in USA, China, and Europe within less than five years from now. And with a product architecture & performance that is evolving at a faster rate, and in a shorter clock-cycle, than either Ford or VAG. And with a full internally-owned & designed autonomy stack on top of that.

A full merger of VAG and Ford could well happen. The incumbents are realising they have to bulk up to survive. Nissan may have signed a death warrant for itself.

This is an interesting game. The politicians are already being used and abused by incumbents to defend turf. This will get very dirty.

regards, dspp

[BobbyD]

I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month.

Somebody has to post the baseless FUD to keep the Tesla share price artificially suppressed, else Tesla will go on to take it's rightful place as the company which rules the world, and those poor Tesla shorts will end up on display, shirtless, in the public stocks.

1. So Ford is planning to start delivering a BEV in Europe in 2023, that uses a product architecture that is perhaps comparable with the best-in-class BEV (Tesla) now. Do they realise 2023 is 4-years away.

2. So Ford is openly admitting it doesn't have a competitive BEV architecture, hence using the VAG MEB architecture & supply chain.

Moreover they don't appear to be in a hurry to develop one. Deciding to nail the MEB platform early and offer companies an out from the massive investment required to develop their own electric cars/platform for that sector might just turn out to be genius. Not only does every MEB sold give MEB more scale it one less non-MEB car which will be built, removing scale from anything the company might belatedly decide to develop itself. It's the sort of thing Tesla could have done to really cement it's position in the market instead of trying to show the best volume producers on the planet that they know nothing about volume production. Who knows, they might even be paying a dividend out of their quarterly profits.

3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.

Where does the engine go in the Modular electric drive matrix (MEB)?

The models of the future I.D. family are currently being developed on the basis of the new Modular electric drive matrix (MEB). These are Volkswagens in a variety of classes which have been designed as full electric vehicles and reach ranges of up to 500 km and more. The architecture of the MEB will fundamentally change electric cars and cars in general. The Modular Electric Toolkit jettisons all the ballast of the fossil age as it has been designed consistently for electric cars. This leads to fundamental changes in body design, interior design, the package and the powertrain characteristics of electric Volkswagens.

- https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... x-meb-3677

Why would you build ICE cars on a BEV platform when you already posses the best selling ICE platform ont he planet?

That would be crazier than building BEV cars on an ICE platform when you have developed the best BEV platform out there...

4. So VAG is planning at least 15 million cars off the MEB platform in a decade, including dino-juice variants. That would be about 1.5m/year ........

Yup 15 million cars including dino-juice variants, nuclear powered cars, and all the ones powered by hamsters running around in their little wheels.

5. There is not a single announcement about firm battery manufacturing capacity in that announcement for either Ford or VAG.

It's not a VW press release. VW have made lots of announcements about both battery contracts and battery production. Since Ford are basically outsourcing their European BEV car range I doubt they are much bothered.

Do the incumbents realise how their proud announcements get read ?

I very much doubt they foresaw your particular reading.

No matter how much they spin it these are admissions of failure.

From Ford's point of view it's arguable, although it's also arguable that a car company in not particularly good shape is better off taking a well designed product from a competitor and sticking it's own shell on top rather than spending billions they don't have developing an inferior product which won't sell as well, or that given all Ford's other failures this is actually a logical course of action.

If you could explain how it is a failure from VW's point of view I'd be much indebted.

And the amount of capital being wasted by both Ford and VAG (and all legacy dino-juice) makes Tesla look positively parsimonious.

Having profits to reinvest in the long term future of your company is a bitch!

Producing a platform which allows those without the resources or volume to adequately design their own step over to BEV's, whilst at the same time underpinning your own transition seems rather smart to me.

A full merger of VAG and Ford could well happen.

I'm not entirely sure why VW would want Ford, especially if Ford remain dependent on VW for European BEV production. The name must be worth something, but the stable is big enough already and the company is a crock.

The incumbents are realising they have to bulk up to survive.

VW need to bulk up? Seriously? One in eight cars sold worldwide last year came out of the VW stable. In a falling market they sold more cars than ever before. VW are scale.

This is an interesting game. The politicians are already being used and abused by incumbents to defend turf. This will get very dirty.

Tesla are getting outflanked on the clean side. VW have a platform on which they are building a lifetime carbon neutral car. If you think they are lobbying for the status quo you are mistaken.

[BobbyD]

I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month.

Howard

Breaking news.

They've hit 216.

https://eu-evs.com/