Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Musk endeavours

The Big Picture Place
TUK020
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2039
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 7:41 am
Has thanked: 762 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256420

Postby TUK020 » October 7th, 2019, 7:04 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:The issue of obsolescence is a two hedged sword.


Do they do electric versions of those now?

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256422

Postby odysseus2000 » October 7th, 2019, 7:17 pm

dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
I doubt there are many folk on the planet who have not heard of SpaceX.

Regards,


Wow, that's some claim. I would be fairly sure 75% of those living in my house wouldn't have heard of it. Admittedly that's, statistically speaking, a very small sample size of your "folk on the planet", but I think you might be fooling yourself making such an assertion!


The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.

Regards,

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256423

Postby odysseus2000 » October 7th, 2019, 7:19 pm

TUK020 wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The issue of obsolescence is a two hedged sword.


Do they do electric versions of those now?


Yes, they have stun sticks & electric bullets called Tasers.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256451

Postby BobbyD » October 7th, 2019, 9:36 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.


Which brings us back to the strength of the Tesla bubble and why the <0.01% of the world's population who have bought a Tesla to date might not be a great guide to Tesla's future sales.

It's amazing what you might consider common knowledge but other people don't know. For example to pick one at random 50% of Americans don't know that Puerto Rico is American and that Puerto Ricans are full American citizens.

Assuming other people know what you know is dangerous and liable to result in misunderstanding. Assuming that because everybody you know knows something everybody else knows it is to be blind to the bubble we all live in.

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256457

Postby odysseus2000 » October 7th, 2019, 9:57 pm

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.


Which brings us back to the strength of the Tesla bubble and why the <0.01% of the world's population who have bought a Tesla to date might not be a great guide to Tesla's future sales.

It's amazing what you might consider common knowledge but other people don't know. For example to pick one at random 50% of Americans don't know that Puerto Rico is American and that Puerto Ricans are full American citizens.

Assuming other people know what you know is dangerous and liable to result in misunderstanding. Assuming that because everybody you know knows something everybody else knows it is to be blind to the bubble we all live in.


I used to live in the US, so I have no trouble with US comprehension of events, like the girl at the credit union who wanted to know how many English dollars there were to the US dollar.

But it is always good to have such erudite contributions, telling me all kinds of useful and interesting stuff.

There are 7.5 billion people on earth, and you tell me that Tesla have sold to <0.01%, which equates to <7b.5e9x.0001 < 7.5e5 < 750,000 cars. Interesting!

However, Wiki say its a bit more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

at 816,155 cars produced.

Still 0.01% of the world population is a nice number to have in mind.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256480

Postby BobbyD » October 7th, 2019, 11:54 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.


Which brings us back to the strength of the Tesla bubble and why the <0.01% of the world's population who have bought a Tesla to date might not be a great guide to Tesla's future sales.

It's amazing what you might consider common knowledge but other people don't know. For example to pick one at random 50% of Americans don't know that Puerto Rico is American and that Puerto Ricans are full American citizens.

Assuming other people know what you know is dangerous and liable to result in misunderstanding. Assuming that because everybody you know knows something everybody else knows it is to be blind to the bubble we all live in.


I used to live in the US, so I have no trouble with US comprehension of events, like the girl at the credit union who wanted to know how many English dollars there were to the US dollar.

But it is always good to have such erudite contributions, telling me all kinds of useful and interesting stuff.

There are 7.5 billion people on earth, and you tell me that Tesla have sold to <0.01%, which equates to <7b.5e9x.0001 < 7.5e5 < 750,000 cars. Interesting!

However, Wiki say its a bit more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

at 816,155 cars produced.

Still 0.01% of the world population is a nice number to have in mind.

Regards,


You are missing about 200,000,000 people*! ...and that's a figure for production not sales. Let's compromise on around 0.01% of people... In a rare point of agreement we both know we are well beyond useful accuracy for the point being made here even if it were 0.02% or 0.03%.

Another fun way of looking at it is that slightly more people have bought Teslas than currently work for VW!

*While I don't put much faith in wiki, for the sake of consistemcy of source I checked wiki's estimate of world population. This is the source they use. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ Watching the little counter tick over is strangely hypnotic. Your estimate is now 19 people worse than it was when I started typing this sentence, no 90, 95...

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256535

Postby dealtn » October 8th, 2019, 9:59 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
I doubt there are many folk on the planet who have not heard of SpaceX.

Regards,


Wow, that's some claim. I would be fairly sure 75% of those living in my house wouldn't have heard of it. Admittedly that's, statistically speaking, a very small sample size of your "folk on the planet", but I think you might be fooling yourself making such an assertion!


The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.

Regards,


In the same year as your "car stunt" over a billion people watched the World Cup final, or at least heard about it on "most of the news channels around the world". Without looking it up I would be extremely surprised if even the majority of the "many folk on the planet" could even tell you who won, let alone their opponents, the final score, where in the world it was played etc.

Your claim is simply ridiculous, and belittles any other other argument you want to make on the back of it if you genuinely believe it to be true. Feel as surprised as you like about the knowledge of the people in my house but my suspicion is they are pretty much a reflection of, at least the middle class, Western, variety of the "folk on the planet".

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256554

Postby odysseus2000 » October 8th, 2019, 11:13 am

dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Wow, that's some claim. I would be fairly sure 75% of those living in my house wouldn't have heard of it. Admittedly that's, statistically speaking, a very small sample size of your "folk on the planet", but I think you might be fooling yourself making such an assertion!


The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.

Regards,


In the same year as your "car stunt" over a billion people watched the World Cup final, or at least heard about it on "most of the news channels around the world". Without looking it up I would be extremely surprised if even the majority of the "many folk on the planet" could even tell you who won, let alone their opponents, the final score, where in the world it was played etc.

Your claim is simply ridiculous, and belittles any other other argument you want to make on the back of it if you genuinely believe it to be true. Feel as surprised as you like about the knowledge of the people in my house but my suspicion is they are pretty much a reflection of, at least the middle class, Western, variety of the "folk on the planet".


According to https://www.tvtechnology.com/miscellane ... -worldwide

Globally, more than 1.4 billion households now own at least one TV set, representing 79 percent of total households; the report notes that “virtually all” households in the developed world now own a TV set while 69 percent own at least one set in developing countries. In Africa in particular, fewer than a third of the households own a TV set; one of the main reasons for the low rate is the limited access to electricity.

These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

Sure folk won't remember who was in the world cup final unless they are foot ball nuts. I was in a shanty town outside Joberg in South Africa and all the kids wanted to talk foot ball, had their own football teams. In Brazil the shanty towns outside of Rio have TV antenna, Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.

There will be folk in areas with no power as in Africa who don't have TV, but even there lots of folk had mobile phones with potential news feeds.

The sports car launch was such a good piece of branding that most networks covered the launch and most of the 79% of households with a TV will have had it on their news feed imho.

No idea how this can be verified, but the world is becoming far more interconnected and news spreads rapidly all over the human race. I now believe it would be hard for any country save for North Korea to so censor news that their population doesn't know more about what is going on in the world than ever before.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256570

Postby BobbyD » October 8th, 2019, 12:41 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

...Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.


Most people don't watch the news.

People you know is not a random and representative sample. They all have atleast one thing in common. Besides tv is so 20th century.

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256597

Postby odysseus2000 » October 8th, 2019, 2:42 pm

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

...Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.


Most people don't watch the news.

People you know is not a random and representative sample. They all have atleast one thing in common. Besides tv is so 20th century.


https://www.tvtechnology.com/miscellane ... -worldwide

One thing is certain though. For the foreseeable future, television will continue to dominate how the world’s population gets its information and entertainment, whether it be by over-the-air, cable, satellite or IP. And for some, desperation just to access television can be a matter of life or death—just ask the people of North Korea, where a number of citizens were reportedly executed recently just for owning forbidden western television content.


BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256679

Postby BobbyD » October 8th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Elon Musk paid convicted fraudster to spread false paedophile claims about British cave rescue hero, court documents allege

‘Thin-skilled billionaire’ sought to ‘destroy’ diver who helped save 12 schoolboys because he criticised his mini-submarine, say lawyers


Elon Musk paid a convicted fraudster to smear a British diving hero who he baselessly called a paedophile, according to court documents.

The billionaire technology entrepreneur allegedly orchestrated a “malicious, false, and anonymous leak campaign” in a bid to trash the reputation of Vernon Unsworth, who helped to rescue a schoolboy football team trapped in a cave in Thailand last year.

The diver launched a defamation lawsuit last year after Mr Musk called him a “peado guy” and “child rapist”. He also suggested he had married a 12-year-old girl.


- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 47806.html

Howard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2178
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:26 pm
Has thanked: 885 times
Been thanked: 1017 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256978

Postby Howard » October 10th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#256983

Postby odysseus2000 » October 10th, 2019, 5:19 pm

Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard


Interesting that both Nio and Dyson have had trouble developing BEV.

This news imho makes Tesla a whole lot more valuable, especially as it begins to look like they have cornered the current tech in two important areas: Battery and Super Capacitors and robotic driving.

I can currently find no other business that has batteries as advanced and reliable as Tesla's with the likely hood that a million miles is now possible for a Tesla battery pack.

On AI, no one else is close to a system that is of comparable cost to Tesla and they have by far the greatest data hoard of any of the robotic driving enterprises.

Additionally despite relentless short attacks and everyone and their dog bad mouthing Tesla they have remained robust and have an exciting portfolio of cars, commercial vehicles and storage. The only weak area being the Solar City roof top solar.

Meanwhile they are managing to harness SpaceX for branding and likely soon satellite communication with their fleet of vehicles.

Now, if I can get a lot of haters to post about how I am nuts I will feel even better. The danger for a Tesla equity holder is when everyone and their dogs is long Tesla and there are no shorts to throw in the towel and haters to change allegiences.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257042

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 12:11 am

Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.


I was surprised they announced the project, since the solution didn't appear to be hiding a fan in a metal tube and charging three times what the competition sells for, for it.

The firm, headed by inventor Sir James Dyson, said its engineers had developed a "fantastic electric car" but that it would not hit the roads because it was not "commercially viable".


Worth noting that he is claiming the problem isn't designing an electric car, it's designing an electric car which can actually be manufactured within realistic cost constraints.

The Singaporese Tesla...

It's not the only thing he has massively underestimated the complexities and costs of recently...


Porsche's electric development is taking off:

Boeing partners with Porsche on electric flying car

(Reuters) - U.S. planemaker Boeing Co said on Thursday it was working with Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) sports car brand, Porsche, to develop a concept electric flying vehicle capable of transporting people in urban settings.


- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN1WP2J2


An interesting law suit:

Dad sues Tesla after teens died in fiery crash while driving at 116mph


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/dad-sues ... to=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


- https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/dad-sues ... -10897255/

...but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


Tesla Smart Summon Feature Called ‘Glitchy’ by Consumer Reports

Smart Summon, the semi-autonomous feature some owners can use to fetch their cars, doesn’t live up to the Model 3 maker’s marketing hype, Consumer Reports magazine said.

The magazine spent several days testing the feature, which allows Tesla owners to tap their smartphone and remotely call for their car to pick them up. Tesla customers have flooded social media with a mixed bag of video reviews. Some show the system working as intended, while others capture scrapes with surrounding vehicles and narrowly avoided accidents.


- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-reports

Howard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2178
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:26 pm
Has thanked: 885 times
Been thanked: 1017 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257044

Postby Howard » October 11th, 2019, 12:58 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard


Interesting that both Nio and Dyson have had trouble developing BEV.

This news imho makes Tesla a whole lot more valuable, especially as it begins to look like they have cornered the current tech in two important areas: Battery and Super Capacitors and robotic driving.

I can currently find no other business that has batteries as advanced and reliable as Tesla's with the likely hood that a million miles is now possible for a Tesla battery pack.

On AI, no one else is close to a system that is of comparable cost to Tesla and they have by far the greatest data hoard of any of the robotic driving enterprises.

Additionally despite relentless short attacks and everyone and their dog bad mouthing Tesla they have remained robust and have an exciting portfolio of cars, commercial vehicles and storage. The only weak area being the Solar City roof top solar.

Meanwhile they are managing to harness SpaceX for branding and likely soon satellite communication with their fleet of vehicles.

Now, if I can get a lot of haters to post about how I am nuts I will feel even better. The danger for a Tesla equity holder is when everyone and their dogs is long Tesla and there are no shorts to throw in the towel and haters to change allegiences.

Regards,


Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard

BobbyD
Lemon Half
Posts: 7814
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 665 times
Been thanked: 1289 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257047

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 1:30 am

Howard wrote:Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard


...and Space X has a major advantage over Tesla. Since firing unmanned bombs in to space involves risks to human life that, say, unleashing hundreds of thousands of semi-autonomous lumps of hi-speed metal with a fire engine fetish on to the public roads whilst doing everything you can to imply that the car is 'Full Self Driving' obviously doesn't have Space X let their engineers get on with business unmolested by a teenage CEO whose had one too many sherbet dip dabs.

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257068

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 8:55 am

Howard
Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard


The modus operandi of NASA management is relentless bitching & complaint with no opportunity missed to demonstrate ones power & position within the organisation & with relentless manoeuvres to get past troublesome folk who are all out to defend their ability to be the make or break of any project with minimal good will among all operators. It is a recipe for creating delays & not getting stuff done. Meanwhile there is the cosy relationships with contractors that created the payment method of cost + margin, that guaranteed everything costs many times what it ought to. Somehow in the middle of all this NASA manages to do some useful stuff as the folk who do the work find ways to get stuff done. That is my first hand experience of how NASA operates, at least when I was there & contacts I still have suggest nothing has changed.

Bridenstine comments are directly out of the way NASA operates, predictable & expected.

Regards,

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257069

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 9:01 am

This years Nobel prize was shared between the 3 folk who made lithium batteries a practical proposition:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/chemi ... 9/summary/

Dr Goodenough began his quest for a better battery during the 1970's oil crisis & we all owe this man, 97 years young & still in the office everyday, a great debt of thanks for what he did & continues to do.

Without Goodenough there would be no mobile devices & no BEV. One individual changed the course of human endeavours.

Regards,

odysseus2000
Lemon Half
Posts: 6363
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 1530 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257071

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 9:10 am

BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8911
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3665 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#257081

Postby redsturgeon » October 11th, 2019, 9:39 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,


I guess for context, some idea of how many fires per 1000 vehicles would actual make that figure useful.

John


Return to “Macro and Global Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: daveh and 23 guests