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Musk endeavours

The Big Picture Place
dealtn
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Re: Musk endeavours

#256535

Postby dealtn » October 8th, 2019, 9:59 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
I doubt there are many folk on the planet who have not heard of SpaceX.

Regards,


Wow, that's some claim. I would be fairly sure 75% of those living in my house wouldn't have heard of it. Admittedly that's, statistically speaking, a very small sample size of your "folk on the planet", but I think you might be fooling yourself making such an assertion!


The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.

Regards,


In the same year as your "car stunt" over a billion people watched the World Cup final, or at least heard about it on "most of the news channels around the world". Without looking it up I would be extremely surprised if even the majority of the "many folk on the planet" could even tell you who won, let alone their opponents, the final score, where in the world it was played etc.

Your claim is simply ridiculous, and belittles any other other argument you want to make on the back of it if you genuinely believe it to be true. Feel as surprised as you like about the knowledge of the people in my house but my suspicion is they are pretty much a reflection of, at least the middle class, Western, variety of the "folk on the planet".

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Re: Musk endeavours

#256554

Postby odysseus2000 » October 8th, 2019, 11:13 am

dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Wow, that's some claim. I would be fairly sure 75% of those living in my house wouldn't have heard of it. Admittedly that's, statistically speaking, a very small sample size of your "folk on the planet", but I think you might be fooling yourself making such an assertion!


The launch into orbit of Musk's midnight Cherry sports car made most of the news channels around the world.

People I have met from China & India know of SpaceX, so I am surprised that 3/4 of the people living in your house haven't heard of the sports car into orbit.

Regards,


In the same year as your "car stunt" over a billion people watched the World Cup final, or at least heard about it on "most of the news channels around the world". Without looking it up I would be extremely surprised if even the majority of the "many folk on the planet" could even tell you who won, let alone their opponents, the final score, where in the world it was played etc.

Your claim is simply ridiculous, and belittles any other other argument you want to make on the back of it if you genuinely believe it to be true. Feel as surprised as you like about the knowledge of the people in my house but my suspicion is they are pretty much a reflection of, at least the middle class, Western, variety of the "folk on the planet".


According to https://www.tvtechnology.com/miscellane ... -worldwide

Globally, more than 1.4 billion households now own at least one TV set, representing 79 percent of total households; the report notes that “virtually all” households in the developed world now own a TV set while 69 percent own at least one set in developing countries. In Africa in particular, fewer than a third of the households own a TV set; one of the main reasons for the low rate is the limited access to electricity.

These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

Sure folk won't remember who was in the world cup final unless they are foot ball nuts. I was in a shanty town outside Joberg in South Africa and all the kids wanted to talk foot ball, had their own football teams. In Brazil the shanty towns outside of Rio have TV antenna, Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.

There will be folk in areas with no power as in Africa who don't have TV, but even there lots of folk had mobile phones with potential news feeds.

The sports car launch was such a good piece of branding that most networks covered the launch and most of the 79% of households with a TV will have had it on their news feed imho.

No idea how this can be verified, but the world is becoming far more interconnected and news spreads rapidly all over the human race. I now believe it would be hard for any country save for North Korea to so censor news that their population doesn't know more about what is going on in the world than ever before.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#256570

Postby BobbyD » October 8th, 2019, 12:41 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

...Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.


Most people don't watch the news.

People you know is not a random and representative sample. They all have atleast one thing in common. Besides tv is so 20th century.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#256597

Postby odysseus2000 » October 8th, 2019, 2:42 pm

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:These TV will get some kind of news feed and most of the news media including Aljezera, covered the sports car launch.

...Chinese folk in Shenzhen who I deal with certainly know about SpaceX and also the Chinese space program.


Most people don't watch the news.

People you know is not a random and representative sample. They all have atleast one thing in common. Besides tv is so 20th century.


https://www.tvtechnology.com/miscellane ... -worldwide

One thing is certain though. For the foreseeable future, television will continue to dominate how the world’s population gets its information and entertainment, whether it be by over-the-air, cable, satellite or IP. And for some, desperation just to access television can be a matter of life or death—just ask the people of North Korea, where a number of citizens were reportedly executed recently just for owning forbidden western television content.


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Re: Musk endeavours

#256679

Postby BobbyD » October 8th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Elon Musk paid convicted fraudster to spread false paedophile claims about British cave rescue hero, court documents allege

‘Thin-skilled billionaire’ sought to ‘destroy’ diver who helped save 12 schoolboys because he criticised his mini-submarine, say lawyers


Elon Musk paid a convicted fraudster to smear a British diving hero who he baselessly called a paedophile, according to court documents.

The billionaire technology entrepreneur allegedly orchestrated a “malicious, false, and anonymous leak campaign” in a bid to trash the reputation of Vernon Unsworth, who helped to rescue a schoolboy football team trapped in a cave in Thailand last year.

The diver launched a defamation lawsuit last year after Mr Musk called him a “peado guy” and “child rapist”. He also suggested he had married a 12-year-old girl.


- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 47806.html

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Re: Musk endeavours

#256978

Postby Howard » October 10th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#256983

Postby odysseus2000 » October 10th, 2019, 5:19 pm

Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard


Interesting that both Nio and Dyson have had trouble developing BEV.

This news imho makes Tesla a whole lot more valuable, especially as it begins to look like they have cornered the current tech in two important areas: Battery and Super Capacitors and robotic driving.

I can currently find no other business that has batteries as advanced and reliable as Tesla's with the likely hood that a million miles is now possible for a Tesla battery pack.

On AI, no one else is close to a system that is of comparable cost to Tesla and they have by far the greatest data hoard of any of the robotic driving enterprises.

Additionally despite relentless short attacks and everyone and their dog bad mouthing Tesla they have remained robust and have an exciting portfolio of cars, commercial vehicles and storage. The only weak area being the Solar City roof top solar.

Meanwhile they are managing to harness SpaceX for branding and likely soon satellite communication with their fleet of vehicles.

Now, if I can get a lot of haters to post about how I am nuts I will feel even better. The danger for a Tesla equity holder is when everyone and their dogs is long Tesla and there are no shorts to throw in the towel and haters to change allegiences.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257042

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 12:11 am

Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.


I was surprised they announced the project, since the solution didn't appear to be hiding a fan in a metal tube and charging three times what the competition sells for, for it.

The firm, headed by inventor Sir James Dyson, said its engineers had developed a "fantastic electric car" but that it would not hit the roads because it was not "commercially viable".


Worth noting that he is claiming the problem isn't designing an electric car, it's designing an electric car which can actually be manufactured within realistic cost constraints.

The Singaporese Tesla...

It's not the only thing he has massively underestimated the complexities and costs of recently...


Porsche's electric development is taking off:

Boeing partners with Porsche on electric flying car

(Reuters) - U.S. planemaker Boeing Co said on Thursday it was working with Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) sports car brand, Porsche, to develop a concept electric flying vehicle capable of transporting people in urban settings.


- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN1WP2J2


An interesting law suit:

Dad sues Tesla after teens died in fiery crash while driving at 116mph


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/dad-sues ... to=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


- https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/dad-sues ... -10897255/

...but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


Tesla Smart Summon Feature Called ‘Glitchy’ by Consumer Reports

Smart Summon, the semi-autonomous feature some owners can use to fetch their cars, doesn’t live up to the Model 3 maker’s marketing hype, Consumer Reports magazine said.

The magazine spent several days testing the feature, which allows Tesla owners to tap their smartphone and remotely call for their car to pick them up. Tesla customers have flooded social media with a mixed bag of video reviews. Some show the system working as intended, while others capture scrapes with surrounding vehicles and narrowly avoided accidents.


- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-reports

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257044

Postby Howard » October 11th, 2019, 12:58 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:Dyson gives up making electric cars.

I guess the moral is that it isn't as easy as it looks. To be honest I'm not surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50004184

regards

Howard


Interesting that both Nio and Dyson have had trouble developing BEV.

This news imho makes Tesla a whole lot more valuable, especially as it begins to look like they have cornered the current tech in two important areas: Battery and Super Capacitors and robotic driving.

I can currently find no other business that has batteries as advanced and reliable as Tesla's with the likely hood that a million miles is now possible for a Tesla battery pack.

On AI, no one else is close to a system that is of comparable cost to Tesla and they have by far the greatest data hoard of any of the robotic driving enterprises.

Additionally despite relentless short attacks and everyone and their dog bad mouthing Tesla they have remained robust and have an exciting portfolio of cars, commercial vehicles and storage. The only weak area being the Solar City roof top solar.

Meanwhile they are managing to harness SpaceX for branding and likely soon satellite communication with their fleet of vehicles.

Now, if I can get a lot of haters to post about how I am nuts I will feel even better. The danger for a Tesla equity holder is when everyone and their dogs is long Tesla and there are no shorts to throw in the towel and haters to change allegiences.

Regards,


Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257047

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 1:30 am

Howard wrote:Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard


...and Space X has a major advantage over Tesla. Since firing unmanned bombs in to space involves risks to human life that, say, unleashing hundreds of thousands of semi-autonomous lumps of hi-speed metal with a fire engine fetish on to the public roads whilst doing everything you can to imply that the car is 'Full Self Driving' obviously doesn't have Space X let their engineers get on with business unmolested by a teenage CEO whose had one too many sherbet dip dabs.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257068

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 8:55 am

Howard
Ody

I’m not sure that Spacex will be a good brand image for Tesla. The Head of NASA made this comment yesterday:

Mr. Bridenstine also said he was not singling out SpaceX: “I’ve been critical of all contractors that overpromise and underdeliver.”

What a surprise :D ! Elon Musk, accused of overpromising and underdelivering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/scie ... -musk.html

regards

Howard


The modus operandi of NASA management is relentless bitching & complaint with no opportunity missed to demonstrate ones power & position within the organisation & with relentless manoeuvres to get past troublesome folk who are all out to defend their ability to be the make or break of any project with minimal good will among all operators. It is a recipe for creating delays & not getting stuff done. Meanwhile there is the cosy relationships with contractors that created the payment method of cost + margin, that guaranteed everything costs many times what it ought to. Somehow in the middle of all this NASA manages to do some useful stuff as the folk who do the work find ways to get stuff done. That is my first hand experience of how NASA operates, at least when I was there & contacts I still have suggest nothing has changed.

Bridenstine comments are directly out of the way NASA operates, predictable & expected.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257069

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 9:01 am

This years Nobel prize was shared between the 3 folk who made lithium batteries a practical proposition:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/chemi ... 9/summary/

Dr Goodenough began his quest for a better battery during the 1970's oil crisis & we all owe this man, 97 years young & still in the office everyday, a great debt of thanks for what he did & continues to do.

Without Goodenough there would be no mobile devices & no BEV. One individual changed the course of human endeavours.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257071

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 9:10 am

BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257081

Postby redsturgeon » October 11th, 2019, 9:39 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,


I guess for context, some idea of how many fires per 1000 vehicles would actual make that figure useful.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257091

Postby odysseus2000 » October 11th, 2019, 10:28 am

redsturgeon


I guess for context, some idea of how many fires per 1000 vehicles would actual make that figure useful.

John


Every time anything happens to a Tesla anywhere in the world it makes headline news. The 7000 uk accidental vehicle fires & the deliberate uk vehicle fires might make the local news headlines, but often don't. As a society we have accepted that ice cars catch on fire a lot which as expected as they have large tanks of flammable chemicals.

For the moment BEV are much less likely to burn. That may change with different batteries, but as things stand BEV are much safer cars in a accidents as there are no big tanks of easily released fuel. When I was young too cars colloded near where I live & although the emergency services raced here they were too late. People tried to get the people out, but they were beaten back by the flames & the people died. One of the policeman told me to carry something in the car to break windows in case of a fire & I have always done so & gave a hammer & auto centre pop for breaking car windows to my groom when she passed her driving test.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257092

Postby dspp » October 11th, 2019, 10:30 am

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,


I guess for context, some idea of how many fires per 1000 vehicles would actual make that figure useful.

John


The numbers floating around tend to indicate that traditional dino-juice ICE vehicles are 11x more likely to catch fire than modern BEVs.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/17/news/c ... index.html

However I suspect that is a metric from Tesla that skews the data in favour of Tesla. If you look a these reports you will notice that a lot of the common fire causes are ones that predominantly affect late lifecycle vehicles, and so far Tesla (who are pretty much the dominant BEV data supplier) vehicles are fairly early life-cycle.

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf ... /v19i2.pdf
https://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/vehicle-fires/

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257104

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 11:09 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
.but the throw away at the bottom shows an aspect of BEV's which is less often considered

The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department did not see a visible fire when they responded to the crash, but they sprayed it with water and foam anyway, according to a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. ‘During the loading of the car for removal from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again. A local fire department responded to the storage yard and extinguished the fire,’ the NTSB report says.


How many petrol & diesel fires with ice cars?

Answer over 7,000 accidental fires per year in recent times:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 80819.xlsx

Regards,


Way to spectacularly miss the point in your fervour...

It doesn't matter how many fires there are which don't involve lithium batteries in cars, you still have to face the problems caused by damaged cells in crashed vehicles and the risks posed to bystanders, emergency responders, and clean up crews if you are going to minimise the risk of injury or death.

...or you could let it feed your growing paranoia and dismiss it as a big oil conspiracy theory.

Yeah, we could have developed a best practice for assessing and mitigating the danger of damaged lithium cells in crashed cars, and yes it is possible that making sure that people who will regularly come in to contact with damaged lithium cells follow that procedure, but we thought it would be a much better plan all round to just point out that people die in petrol cars too... stop picking on us man, other people kill with their short sightedness and indifference too.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257111

Postby ReformedCharacter » October 11th, 2019, 11:30 am

Nothing to do with Musk directly, but apparently Dyson has thrown in the towel with regard to producing electric cars.

Sir James Dyson is pulling the plug on his flagship electric car project after two years of work because it is not commercially viable.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... oject-not/
(Paywall)

RC

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257112

Postby redsturgeon » October 11th, 2019, 11:31 am

odysseus2000 wrote: so & gave a hammer & auto centre pop for breaking car windows to my groom when she passed her driving test.

Regards,


???

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Re: Musk endeavours

#257120

Postby BobbyD » October 11th, 2019, 11:55 am

odysseus2000 wrote:This news imho makes Tesla a whole lot more valuable, especially as it begins to look like they have cornered the current tech in two important areas: Battery and Super Capacitors...


I didn't realise they'd bought Lamborghini.


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