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Musk endeavours

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Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#261300

Postby Howard » October 31st, 2019, 2:00 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard
You would have a more believable investment case if you actually bought a Tesla :D


Quite fascinated by why you think this.

How does owning a product influence an investment case?

In my case if I go out & buy a Tesla it will have no material impact on my investments and worse will make all the neighbours more aware of my financial situation, likely causing all of them to want me to contribute to various endeavours that I am happy to let them fund.

Meanwhile if I watch what other folk are doing & where many others are spending their money this will have a direct investment case impact. This is how I often invest. To give you an example. I like Apple as an investment/trade because I see lots of people using Apple products. I also watch Louis Rossman who goes over the technical reasons why he does not like Apple products or Apple service. Rossman makes some super good logical analysis & points out serious Apple flaws & bad workmanship. But people still buy Apple stuff, and I regularly own Apple shares & have a few Apple products, the newest now is over 4 years old, my iPhone is a 4s. Would buying more Apple products make a difference to my investment performance?

My job as an investor/trader as I see it is to make profits, not to own products made by companies. What am I missing, why would me buying any product made by any company make me a better investor/trader?

It may surprise you to know that I mostly trade on price anyway, looking for sell offs as an opportunity to buy, run ups as an opportunity to sell.

Regards,



Ody

You may not agree, but there is a reasonable argument for using one’s own experience of a company’s products or services in deciding whether or not to invest. If one experiences poor service or shoddy products from a company this may be a strong reason not to buy their shares. Equally, if one has brilliant service and enjoys high quality products from a start-up company’s competitors it might be wise to proceed with caution before investing.

I agree that there are exceptions. A company like Apple, can be chosen for fashion reasons which may defy logic and they may succeed. But they have to offer high quality at least as good as the competition or they will ultimately fail.

It could be argued that, if one shopped at M&S and noticed over the years that their stores became emptier and their products less attractive, this might be a rational argument for not buying their shares. Even if confronted with sophisticated analyses of their future financial performance by those who have never entered one of their stores!

And as a reader of investor posts over many years I am very wary of those who recommend buying shares in companies when they obviously don’t own their products if these are readily available.

Moving on to cars. Since I was a schoolboy I have noticed that males can be quite irrational in their views on cars. The “Top Gear” audience shows this behaviour in an amusing light. People who drive Fords will argue heatedly about the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini vs a Tesla. What do they really know about how the cars feel or handle and what the motivation of a purchaser might be? Outrageous he may be, but at least Jeremy Clarkson drove the cars he pontificated about.

To be honest, I haven’t driven a Lamborghini or a Tesla (although I did contact Tesla to ask for a test drive when I was choosing a new car but their sales team either couldn’t or wouldn’t arrange this). As a careful buyer, I wouldn’t dream of buying/leasing an expensive car without a thorough test drive before making a decision.

I do have experience of driving some of the cars Tesla are competing with and, in my opinion, they offer tough competition. You have previously read my experience of trouble-free motoring with premium cars - only a couple of faults in the last 20 years of motoring.

Some people may disagree with me, but I think that touchscreen control of virtually every function in a model 3 is inconvenient/dangerous in practice. Mrs H’s Golf has many functions controlled by a touchscreen and it is a nightmare to change the Sat Nav or radio or media, dabbing at a screen on a slightly bumpy road. And using a smartphone touchscreen display whilst driving is also dangerous in my view.

Changing settings in (for example) a new BMW is easy with voice and idrive rotary controls and buttons which can be pre-programmed to carry out a function. However bumpy the road, one can do this without being distracted from the traffic ahead. And, of course, when the car is stationary one can use the alternative touchscreen which is as sensitive and controllable as an Apple product.

It wouldn’t be surprising to see Tesla improve the model 3 controls in the future and maybe for the model Y. But this isn’t a forecast!

So, with experience of driving cars with excellent and safe controls, I am a sceptic about the model 3. And, whilst I have acquaintances and friends with upmarket cars, I have yet to meet someone who drives a Tesla. If I meet a delighted Tesla owner, who has never had a problem with his/her car and who will take me for a drive to convince me of the quality of the car for normal, safe, everyday driving, I might be more sympathetic to the company.

On a personal note, I am a long-term investor, not a trader. And, maybe irrationally, I want to like the companies I invest in. And I don’t invest in companies where I don’t trust the CEO or the board. It’s nice to back the occasional buccaneer but some of us find some of Elon Musk’s behaviour very unattractive and it spoils the investment case for the company.

Hopefully I have answered your questions. We each have our own investment style. When you started this forum many years ago on the Motley Fool, I was an admirer of Elon Musk and trusted him to achieve some of his claims. Now, sadly, I wouldn’t invest until the leadership of the company is improved.

But would I buy/lease a quality BEV with a reasonable range? Yes, like a shot when a sensible car becomes available at a sensible price.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261304

Postby odysseus2000 » October 31st, 2019, 2:09 pm

BD
...and yet you yourself once asserted that my theory that there is a decent market for more compact, lower range vehicles you disparagingly dismissed as shopping trolleys meant I should be compelled to buy one if they ever came to market!


Shopping trolley is one of the terms I use as it is used in the motor trade to describe stuff like VW Polo sized motors.

Since things like Polo sell, some folk need or want a shopping trolley.

I don't believe I have ever suggested that anyone should buy anything.

Generally I council, making do or diy and not buying things unless someone has a need that can only be satisfied by spending money and in such cases I would council to buy the best within the budget. E.g. I would currently not recommend anyone buy a PC when Mac imho are better, but I don't expect obedient behaviour or care if someone follows my council or does the exact opposite.

With investment/trading I would strongly advise no one to follow what i do. Every ones account and experience levels are different and every one has to do things that they are comfortable with.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261307

Postby BobbyD » October 31st, 2019, 2:15 pm

dspp wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
dspp wrote:
Thank you o2000. As you quite rightly say my being an investor in TSLA has nothing whatsoever to do with what car I choose to own & drive, or even whether I choose to own & drive a car. regards, dspp


...and yet you yourself once asserted that my theory that there is a decent market for more compact, lower range vehicles you disparagingly dismissed as shopping trolleys meant I should be compelled to buy one if they ever came to market!


BD,
Then please have my apologies for personalising. Are you sure you are not quoting me out of context, not that it matter ? By shopping trolleys I would mean the very compact stuff, such as a Fiat 500 or VW Upi which I think can work OK as a vehicle type with 80-120 mile ranges. I suspect that there will be a bifurcation in the market and that will be a valid EV class.
Regards,
dspp


Search is being uncooperative, but yes I'm very sure I'm not taking you out of context. It was back in the anything under 300 miles is a crock days. No apology necessary, it was a bad logical argument but not personally offensive. It is though another example of a certain logical inconsistency amongst posters who might be perceived to be on one side of the argument, akin ot Ody refusing to recognise investments made by other auto-companies whilst touting Tesla as heading fast towards a million cars a year production. It along with the incessant claims of FUD, conspiracy and corruption and the childish playground terminology really don't help those posters' credibility. I think it would be a benefit to the quality of discussion here if it were to take place in neutral terms, and on the basis of probabilities rather than tribal warfare. Perhaps we can rope Bercow in to adjudicate now he's got some spare time on his hands.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261312

Postby BobbyD » October 31st, 2019, 3:16 pm

Top Gear - Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs Tesla Model S: DRAG RACE, FULL REVIEW AND VMAX | Top Gear

It’s the EV heavyweight battle you’ve been waiting for: In the green corner, the £140k, 750bhp Porsche Taycan Turbo S. In the red corner, the £100k, 754bhp Tesla Model S Performance Ludicrous+. To find out which is best, we test both on the road, drag strip, autobahn and at the charging station


- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28i1D1OJ5o

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261365

Postby odysseus2000 » October 31st, 2019, 7:12 pm

Hi Howard,

I believe you are mixing two things here: Your analysis of M&S and your analysis of Tesla.

In your M&S analysis you are essentially over looking a lot of individual decisions and coming to a consensus view.

In your Tesla analysis you are focused on your own experience and views and what you consider important and this continues into how you consider analysts reports, sales figures etc, quality reports etc

What matters to you is important to you and your family, but to extrapolate from your own considerations to how other punters view a motor is I suggest not that useful for an investment that necessarily relies on the considerations of many people.

It is valuable for me to see your thoughts on Tesla, but I read your views in the context of the views of many other people and weigh all of them with my own prejudices.

I see Tesla as riding a major wave of secular change that will transform world energy generation, consumption and storage and also Tesla will be part of the next industrial revolutions in both AI and robotics. Things like paint and other quality issues I consider to be trivial, but you have different views .

Out of all of this each of us has to make up our own minds as to whether we want to be long, short or put it off our list of interesting stocks.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261371

Postby vrdiver » October 31st, 2019, 8:00 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:I see Tesla as riding a major wave of secular change that will transform world energy generation, consumption and storage and also Tesla will be part of the next industrial revolutions in both AI and robotics.

The railway companies rode a wave of secular change and transformation. It turned out great for civilisation, but a lot of investors lost their money.

I agree with you re the coming changes, but am as yet unconvinced that Tesla will be a survivor. Not saying they won't be, or even that they will be less successful than MSFT or Apple etc., but just pointing out that businesses can and have failed despite being in a leadership position.

The technology is one strength, but they face some serious competition on every front. Deep pockets and a steady stream of success might be in order, not least when it comes to hitting their self-proclaimed targets.

We'll see what the landscape looks like in a year's time as more manufacturer's BEVs start to become available in the market and more cities put ever more stringent emission constraints in place.

VRD

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261373

Postby BobbyD » October 31st, 2019, 8:25 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:I see Tesla as riding a major wave of secular change that will transform world energy generation, consumption and storage and also Tesla will be part of the next industrial revolutions in both AI and robotics. Things like paint and other quality issues I consider to be trivial, but you have different views .


There is absolutely nothing secular about your views on Musk or Tesla, or the wave on which Tesla is riding.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261381

Postby odysseus2000 » October 31st, 2019, 9:19 pm

vrdiver wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:I see Tesla as riding a major wave of secular change that will transform world energy generation, consumption and storage and also Tesla will be part of the next industrial revolutions in both AI and robotics.

The railway companies rode a wave of secular change and transformation. It turned out great for civilisation, but a lot of investors lost their money.

I agree with you re the coming changes, but am as yet unconvinced that Tesla will be a survivor. Not saying they won't be, or even that they will be less successful than MSFT or Apple etc., but just pointing out that businesses can and have failed despite being in a leadership position.

The technology is one strength, but they face some serious competition on every front. Deep pockets and a steady stream of success might be in order, not least when it comes to hitting their self-proclaimed targets.

We'll see what the landscape looks like in a year's time as more manufacturer's BEVs start to become available in the market and more cities put ever more stringent emission constraints in place.

VRD


Yes, these are good points. There are huge parallels with the railway age.

In the former it was massive over supply that sank Hudson, the railway king. This is a very good novel showing how more & more money went into the boom & how the kind of heroine although multi faceted sees it all building:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/325 ... you-always

If you want to know what will possibly happen & the signs to look for this novel imho is worth a read.

Tesla could fail, as could legacy auto as there is imho a tidal wave of change coming & I am far from certain if I can over exaggerate the effects of what might come.

As things now stand Tesla looks well positioned imho to make a shed load of money for investors, legacy auto looks imho set up to lose a shed load of money for its investors.

So far almost all the analysis I have read bifurcates into:

1 Legacy auto is rich & will dominate, new entrants like Tesla are doomed.

2 legacy auto is too complacent & will lose, new entrants like Tesla will win.

For me it is by far the most interesting investment issue of our time with huge real world consequences & imho the change has hardly begun.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261383

Postby odysseus2000 » October 31st, 2019, 9:23 pm

For those unclear about what I mean by secular, this might help:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/secular.asp

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261409

Postby BobbyD » November 1st, 2019, 3:25 am

The Teslarati are apoplectic after it was confirmed that Top Gear displayed faster figures from a previous test for the Model S rather than the same day, same time, same track numbers used for the Taycan to minimise the margin of the Porsche's victory...

There have been some questions about the performance figures we posted in our recent Porsche Taycan vs Tesla Model S video. Time for some clarification.

First things first, we ran the drag race five times and the Porsche won every time by a small but increasing margin with each subsequent race.

The best figures we recorded for the Taycan Turbo S were:

0-60: 2.61
0-100: 6.12
¼ mile: 10.69s @ 131.6mph

The best figures we recorded for the Tesla Model S Performance were:

0-60: 2.83
0-100: 6.64
¼ mile: 11.23s @ 123.2mph

The numbers we posted in the video for the Tesla were:

0-60: 2.68
0-100: 6.46
¼ mile: 11.08s @ 124.0mph

These were numbers we recorded in a Model S on a previous occasion. We ran them because these are the best figures we’ve achieved in a Model S to date so we know that’s what the car is capable of.

And just to be clear, the Tesla was in Ludicrous+ mode, the battery was pre-conditioned and both cars had around 85 per cent charge before the first run.


- https://www.topgear.com/car-news/porsch ... rification

Some of the BTL's in the usual places are getting very ugly.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261548

Postby BobbyD » November 1st, 2019, 7:39 pm

Tesla and Musk hid facts about SolarCity deal and SpaceX involvement, shareholders claim in unsealed court docs

KEY POINTS

Large shareholders are suing Tesla over their acquisition of SolarCity in late 2016. Unsealed court docs revealed new details about their claims on Monday.

Before the $2.6 billion deal closed, SolarCity allegedly hid critical details about its relationship with SpaceX, from auditors Ernst & Young.

A financial advisor to SolarCity, Lazard, could find no other bidders for the company -- just Tesla -- ahead of the deal, the shareholders claim.


- https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/23/tesla-s ... -docs.html

Tesla shareholders filed a lawsuit against the company in 2016, alleging that CEO Elon Musk pushed the company to buy SolarCity to enrich himself. They said it was a breach of fiduciary duty.

On Thursday, several depositions (including one of Musk) and documents included in the suit were published on the website PlainSite, an organization focused on transparency in the US judicial system. The Think Computer Foundation originally obtained the documents.

Some documents showed that SolarCity was facing a liquidity crisis when Tesla bought it, and that some Tesla board members had a lot to lose personally if the deal didn't go through. The documents also showed that the Tesla solar-roof-tile product, which was unveiled to the public just before the acquisition was approved by the board, didn't work.

An email from Musk included in the lawsuit showed that he pushed to move up the presentation of the solar tile to convince the board to approve the SolarCity acquisition.


- https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-mu ... ?r=US&IR=T

FCA in the market for BEV's:

Fiat Chrysler's CEO says the carmaker could buy technology from Tesla


- https://www.businessinsider.com/fca-fia ... ?r=US&IR=T

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261555

Postby BobbyD » November 1st, 2019, 8:05 pm

First steels go up at Nortvolt Ett, what will hopefully become Sweden's 32 GWh battery manufactory.

- https://northvolt.com/construction-begi ... hvolt-ett/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261665

Postby Howard » November 2nd, 2019, 1:39 pm

Model 3 is now available from stock in the UK. Tesla UK are holding a selection for immediate delivery and there are some hopeful sellers on Autotrader but some cars haven’t shifted for a month or more.

It will be interesting to see the UK sales figures for October which will be out soon. (And, of course, sales in the USA).

The total sales of Model 3s in Norway, Netherlands and Spain in October were 435. (Compared with sales of 8,353 in September). Model S and X October sales in these countries were 35 and 50 respectively.

https://eu-evs.com/

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#261717

Postby BobbyD » November 2nd, 2019, 5:36 pm

Howard wrote:Model 3 is now available from stock in the UK. Tesla UK are holding a selection for immediate delivery and there are some hopeful sellers on Autotrader but some cars haven’t shifted for a month or more.

It will be interesting to see the UK sales figures for October which will be out soon. (And, of course, sales in the USA).

The total sales of Model 3s in Norway, Netherlands and Spain in October were 435. (Compared with sales of 8,353 in September). Model S and X October sales in these countries were 35 and 50 respectively.

https://eu-evs.com/

regards

Howard


Yowzers!

Just for perspective, and to rule out general market effects, I looked at a few other models NL +NO + SP October sales:

e-tron: 1104 - first month over 800 this year, large increase. They knocked it out o fthe park last October as well

e-golf: 1138 - about par. Can't believe this is still selling with the ID.3 within touching distance...

Leaf: 1067 - about par

i3: 608 - in keeping with recent steady decline

ipace: 207 - actually a slight improvement on Aug & Sep

Model 3: Indeed 435, although they've already pegged 252 in November...

So there was nothing wrong with Norway.


For comparison their other 1st months of the quarter have been:

Jan - 58

April - 1237

July 987

so it's a massive drop, although on trend in that regard.

They could be starving the Norwegian market as they roll out far too fast across Europe, but it isn't how I'd do it. Then again that probably makes it more likely...

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Re: Musk endeavours

#262017

Postby BobbyD » November 4th, 2019, 1:46 pm

A happy id.3 day to all.

Merkel’s visit to the factory in the eastern state of Saxony marks the production start for the VW brand’s first mass-market vehicle based on a technology developed solely for battery-powered cars. Customers have placed deposits for more than 35,000 ID.3 cars. Success for the model, which starts at just under 30,000 euros ($33,500) and will hit showrooms across Europe next summer, is vital for the massive investment to pay off and safeguard jobs.


- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ique-grows

An interesting graph:

Image

- https://insideevs.com/news/380011/e-tro ... -x-norway/

Not bad for a,"bottom of the performance table Frankenstein car which is going to sink Audi".

Dear John: My wife and I are second-time Tesla owners.

We now own a Model 3, and my wife uses the car exclusively for her work as a notary.

About two weeks ago, she was waiting at a light and got rear-ended by another driver. Her trunk and rear bumper were damaged, and the car was rendered undriveable.

The problem we are facing is that Tesla regularly makes body shops wait at least three to four months before supplying needed parts.

It appears that Tesla is reluctant to use parts directed for the assembly line to satisfy customers’ repair needs.

Ordinarily in this type of an accident, in which one driver is totally at fault, the insurance company pays for a rental that is the equivalent to the damaged car. In this case, the responsible party has insurance coverage that will cover the damage and nothing else.

I found Tesla’s lack of commitment to its customers abhorrent. If it takes four months to get parts, I will be forced to cover virtually all the car rental costs and some repairs. If this was an ordinary car manufacturer, the parts would be available in days, not months.

My certified Tesla body shop is afraid of retribution from the company if it pushes too hard.


- https://nypost.com/2019/11/02/tesla-nee ... customers/

Now you can, possibly, argue that Tesla's repair problems are overstated or not representative blah, blah, blah ...but I'm sure we can all agree that this sort of thing appearing in the NY Post isn't great for Tesla?

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating Tesla over alleged battery defects that have reportedly led to fires in the Model S and Model X.

On Oct. 24, the agency sent a letter informing Tesla that it planned to open a defect petition requesting that "certain battery management system software updates" be evaluated in Model S and Model X vehicles sold between 2012 to 2019 in the United States. It also requested information about those updates, as well as details on consumer complaints, lawsuits, and claims related to the alleged defects.


- https://mashable.com/article/tesla-mode ... urope=true

Again...

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Re: Musk endeavours

#262232

Postby Howard » November 5th, 2019, 10:45 am

dspp wrote:
Howard wrote:
There is a danger that Tesla investors believe the whole world is against them.

Howard


Howard,

I'm not going to waste my breath going through all that FUD. If you want to drive a dino-juice car then that's your choice. If you want to slag off TSLA then keep on going.

However this is an investment site. If you want to benefit from your superior knowledge on TSLA as an investment opportunity then either go short or go long. But get off the keyboard and put some $$$ in this game if you are sure you know what you are talking about. If you don't do so then it indicates to me that you are not so sure as you profess to be.

Meanwhile TSLA is growing at an average of 33% per year.

regards, dspp


Tesla sales in the UK in October dropped to 587. As Tesla UK has scores of new S and X and a more modest selection of new Model 3s available from stock is this an indicator that demand is dropping significantly in the UK, at least in the short term?

With around 13 Tesla showrooms in Britain, this means an average of around 11 cars sold per week in October. Is this a sustainable performance for a sales outlet?

A typical Mercedes or BMW franchise dealer would expect to sell more than 25 cars a week. In September dealers of these two brands sold around 50 a week. And both German brands each sold around 12,000 cars in October suggesting their dealers had a pretty good month.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

https://www.am-online.com/data/new-car-sales-figures

Tesla do not reveal their monthly sales figures in the USA, but their US sales turnover in Q3 was down, suggesting car sales volume was not increasing. Their introduction of a leasing scheme for the Model 3 could, of course, explain some of the steep drop in US sales turnover. We won’t have a clear idea of US volumes for some time.

Tesla sales in Norway, Netherlands and Spain dropped dramatically in October (see my post above).

So all eyes are on sales in China. Will this make up the recent shortfall in sales in Europe? We are unlikely to get definite pointers as to how many cars Tesla will sell in 2019 until January next year.

dspp your forecast that Tesla is growing at 33% per year looks pretty brave to me. But we'll see what their long-term performance is.

Some will call the above sales figures FUD, some of us will call them FACTS. :D

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#262260

Postby dspp » November 5th, 2019, 11:49 am

Howard wrote:
dspp wrote:
Howard wrote:
There is a danger that Tesla investors believe the whole world is against them.

Howard


Howard,

I'm not going to waste my breath going through all that FUD. If you want to drive a dino-juice car then that's your choice. If you want to slag off TSLA then keep on going.

However this is an investment site. If you want to benefit from your superior knowledge on TSLA as an investment opportunity then either go short or go long. But get off the keyboard and put some $$$ in this game if you are sure you know what you are talking about. If you don't do so then it indicates to me that you are not so sure as you profess to be.

Meanwhile TSLA is growing at an average of 33% per year.

regards, dspp


Tesla sales in the UK in October dropped to 587. As Tesla UK has scores of new S and X and a more modest selection of new Model 3s available from stock is this an indicator that demand is dropping significantly in the UK, at least in the short term?

With around 13 Tesla showrooms in Britain, this means an average of around 11 cars sold per week in October. Is this a sustainable performance for a sales outlet?

A typical Mercedes or BMW franchise dealer would expect to sell more than 25 cars a week. In September dealers of these two brands sold around 50 a week. And both German brands each sold around 12,000 cars in October suggesting their dealers had a pretty good month.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

https://www.am-online.com/data/new-car-sales-figures

Tesla do not reveal their monthly sales figures in the USA, but their US sales turnover in Q3 was down, suggesting car sales volume was not increasing. Their introduction of a leasing scheme for the Model 3 could, of course, explain some of the steep drop in US sales turnover. We won’t have a clear idea of US volumes for some time.

Tesla sales in Norway, Netherlands and Spain dropped dramatically in October (see my post above).

So all eyes are on sales in China. Will this make up the recent shortfall in sales in Europe? We are unlikely to get definite pointers as to how many cars Tesla will sell in 2019 until January next year.

dspp your forecast that Tesla is growing at 33% per year looks pretty brave to me. But we'll see what their long-term performance is.

Some will call the above sales figures FUD, some of us will call them FACTS. :D

regards

Howard


Those are interesting FACTS and get a lot more respect from me than FUD.

If a Mercedes or BMW franchise dealer is doing 25 cars/week then they are doing 300 cars/quarter. Now assuming that is a per location number it can be compared with the corresponding Tesla global average number that is averaging 225. Interesting.

My 33% forecast was not a forecast. It was an observation that the historical average annual growth rate over the past few years was 33%, and that the capacity expansion numbers being built out are consistent with that continuing. Whether it will continue or not I do not know, all I was pointing out was what the historical facts were, and whether the available data indicated it could continue. And what that implied in valuation terms (PE and PEG). See viewtopic.php?p=260299#p260299 for details.

It is an interesting situation. One into which we now see national-politicians throwing money & time to try and save their incumbent legacy manufacturers.

I hold.

regards, dspp

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#262349

Postby odysseus2000 » November 5th, 2019, 4:51 pm

NIO up nearly 30% following:

https://ir.nio.com/news-events/news-releases

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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#262461

Postby BobbyD » November 5th, 2019, 11:17 pm

Bristol council votes to ban diesel cars in first for a UK city

Scheme to begin in 2021 in attempt to tackle illegal levels of air pollution


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... iesel-cars

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Re: Musk endeavours

#262474

Postby Howard » November 6th, 2019, 12:33 am

Below is a link to a very long article in Spiegel online - Will Tesla and Google Kill the German Car?

It's a German journalistic view of the major challenges facing their car manufacturers. And it doesn't underplay the seriousness of their situation.

Worth a read or a skim.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/bu ... 93415.html

regards

Howard


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