Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[servodude]

Are you saying that all these countries are also `outliers' (or just perhaps liars) adopting a North Korean attitude?

No. I said that Tanzania did; and did so famously.

For the point you are trying to make there are far better choices

You're welcome
-sd

[Lootman]

But if those arguments do not suit your "agendum" here (which as far as I can tell is constant scaremongering about Covid) then how about this argument? It is the job of the UK government to spend UK taxpayer money on the healthcare of UK people. We should not be putting UK persons at greater risk in vainglorious attempts to save the world.

Does not your argument overlook the simple fact that COVID-19 is a global pandemic

It is global but actual risks are local - you have to be within a few feet of an infected person for a duration.

As long as I do not travel to places like Tanzania, and we restrict the admission to the UK of people from there, then risk can be isolated. After all, infection rates vary massively across the globe even though the virus is "global".

Personally I am only visiting nations with a high vaccination rate. I do not need to go to Africa. In fact I have never been there despite having travelled extensively. Never saw a reason to do so.

[XFool]

But if those arguments do not suit your "agendum" here (which as far as I can tell is constant scaremongering about Covid) then how about this argument? It is the job of the UK government to spend UK taxpayer money on the healthcare of UK people. We should not be putting UK persons at greater risk in vainglorious attempts to save the world.

Does not your argument overlook the simple fact that COVID-19 is a global pandemic

It is global but actual risks are local - you have to be within a few feet of an infected person for a duration.

As long as I do not travel to places like Tanzania, and we restrict the admission to the UK of people from there, then risk can be isolated. After all, infection rates vary massively across the globe even though the virus is "global".

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

[Lootman]

Does not your argument overlook the simple fact that COVID-19 is a global pandemic

It is global but actual risks are local - you have to be within a few feet of an infected person for a duration.

As long as I do not travel to places like Tanzania, and we restrict the admission to the UK of people from there, then risk can be isolated. After all, infection rates vary massively across the globe even though the virus is "global".

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

[XFool]

It is global but actual risks are local - you have to be within a few feet of an infected person for a duration.

As long as I do not travel to places like Tanzania, and we restrict the admission to the UK of people from there, then risk can be isolated. After all, infection rates vary massively across the globe even though the virus is "global".

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Oh dear! Missing the point AGAIN....

[Pandemic, People, Infectious, Virus, Variants, etc.]

[Lootman]

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Oh dear! Missing the point AGAIN....

Then learn to write more clearly. If you write in vague and cryptic terms then people will fail to understand you routinely. Kind of like with your topic titles. See the pattern here?

Try making your point more clearly.

[XFool]

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Oh dear! Missing the point AGAIN....

Then learn to write more clearly. If you write in vague and cryptic terms then people will fail to understand you routinely. Kind of like with your topic titles. See the pattern here?

There is nothing in the slightest that is either "vague" or "cryptic" about any of [Pandemic, People, Infectious, Virus, Variants] as far as I am concerned, or indeed most people (hopefully!).

Then again, you may be right. IMO, it has been demonstrated over and over again during this pandemic that there are those who do seem to struggle with some of these concepts - or rather their implications and consequences - even amongst those who might otherwise be expected to be more than intelligent enough to grasp the basics.

The "point" has been made repeatedly, over and over again - "We are not safe until we are all safe". Anyone not understanding at this point either:

1. Cannot understand
OR
2. Doesn't want to understand

There must be an explanation...

[Lootman]

Oh dear! Missing the point AGAIN....

Then learn to write more clearly. If you write in vague and cryptic terms then people will fail to understand you routinely. Kind of like with your topic titles. See the pattern here?

There is nothing in the slightest that is either "vague" or "cryptic" about any of [Pandemic, People, Infectious, Virus, Variants] as far as I am concerned, or indeed most people (hopefully!).

Then again, you may be right. IMO, it has been demonstrated over and over again during this pandemic that there are those who do seem to struggle with some of these concepts - or rather their implications and consequences - even amongst those who might otherwise be expected to be more than intelligent enough to grasp the basics.

There must be an explanation...

So again, what was your point? I still cannot see it and I doubt that anyone else can either.

And are you happy to donate your booster shot to someone in Africa?

[XFool]

So again, what was your point? I still cannot see it and I doubt that anyone else can either.

I refer you to my preceding post.

[vrdiver]

It is global but actual risks are local - you have to be within a few feet of an infected person for a duration.

As long as I do not travel to places like Tanzania, and we restrict the admission to the UK of people from there, then risk can be isolated. After all, infection rates vary massively across the globe even though the virus is "global".

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Well, that's OK then. A quick scan on kayak shows over 500 available flights between Tanzania and India (where the Delta virus came from). Anything nasty in Tanzania, variant wise, will obviously be stumped if direct flights to the UK aren't available...

[Lootman]

So again, what was your point? I still cannot see it and I doubt that anyone else can either.

I refer you to my preceding post.

The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

The risk of you or I catching Covid because cases increase in Tanzania is negligible. Therefore UK vaccines should not be diverted there, which would increase the risk to you or I.

[XFool]

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Well, that's OK then. A quick scan on kayak shows over 500 available flights between Tanzania and India (where the Delta virus came from). Anything nasty in Tanzania, variant wise, will obviously be stumped if direct flights to the UK aren't available...

Yes.

infectious
ĭn-fĕk′shəs
adjective
1. Capable of causing infection.
2. Capable of being transmitted by infection.
3. Capable of transmitting a disease; contagious.

All you need to know then is that people - all over the world - have a habit of moving around the world.

It sure ain't "Obscure".

[Lootman]

Ah yes! I see what you mean now.

That worked so well last time there was a variation in an existing virus out in the wild somewhere...

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Well, that's OK then. A quick scan on kayak shows over 500 available flights between Tanzania and India (where the Delta virus came from).

During that period how many people travelled from Tanzania to the UK via India and lied to UK border control?

You are aware, I hope, that you need a negative test before boarding any flight to the UK, and again afterwards?

[vrdiver]

During that period how many people travelled from Tanzania to the UK via India and lied to UK border control?

You are aware, I hope, that you need a negative test before boarding any flight to the UK, and again afterwards?

Don't need the numbers; as evidence, I present to you the presence of the Delta variant in the UK.

[XFool]

It did work. The Delta variant did not arrive from Tanzania, which remains on the UK "red" list.

Well, that's OK then. A quick scan on kayak shows over 500 available flights between Tanzania and India (where the Delta virus came from).

During that period how many people travelled from Tanzania to the UK via India and lied to UK border control?

Surely the general point is people come and go - to and from say Tanzania and not just to India and not just to the UK and not just Tanzanians. Also, the same applies to countries other than Tanzania.

You are aware, I hope, that you need a negative test before boarding any flight to the UK, and again afterwards?

Well that sounds like a good thing. Another good thing, both for the people themselves and also for our own self interest, is that we help to get people throughout the world vaccinated. After all, it is a Pandemic.

[Lootman]

During that period how many people travelled from Tanzania to the UK via India and lied to UK border control?

You are aware, I hope, that you need a negative test before boarding any flight to the UK, and again afterwards?

Don't need the numbers; as evidence, I present to you the presence of the Delta variant in the UK.

Delta is in the UK but that doesn't mean that depriving UK seniors of a booster shot so we can flood Tanzania with vaccinations would solve the problem. There is no evidence that Delta originated in Tanzania nor that anyone from there helped to spread it. And there is no way of knowing whether sending millions of vaccine shots there now will prevent a new mutation in the future.

But what we do know for sure is that giving extra protection to UK residents reduces risk of infection and illness HERE.

[XFool]

Don't need the numbers; as evidence, I present to you the presence of the Delta variant in the UK.

Delta is in the UK but that doesn't mean that depriving UK seniors of a booster shot so we can flood Tanzania with vaccinations would solve the problem. There is no evidence that Delta originated in Tanzania nor that anyone from there helped to spread it.

So...?

Because it didn't originate in Tanzania it doesn't exist? No variant could possibly originate in Tanzania, or anywhere else?

I confess: The 'logic' of your argument here defeats me.

And there is no way of knowing whether sending millions of vaccine shots there now will prevent a new mutation in the future.

But what we do know for sure is that giving extra protection to UK residents reduces risk of infection and illness HERE.

My impression from hearing Gordon Brown on the radio the other day was that, rather than "global grandstanding", he was objecting to this:

Covid vaccine stockpiles: Could 241m doses go to waste?

BBC News

President Biden is asking world leaders to pledge to vaccinate 70% of the global population by September next year. But research shows rich countries are still holding surpluses of vaccines, many of which could soon be thrown out.

[vrdiver]

During that period how many people travelled from Tanzania to the UK via India and lied to UK border control?

You are aware, I hope, that you need a negative test before boarding any flight to the UK, and again afterwards?

Don't need the numbers; as evidence, I present to you the presence of the Delta variant in the UK.

Delta is in the UK

So you agree that it came in with a traveller and that UK border control failed to keep it out, despite testing and red lists?

Either we get the world population vaccinated, or we continue to be disrupted by this virus, either directly in the UK, or indirectly, as economies we trade with struggle to cope with it.

I don't think it's a case of either giving boosters in the UK or sending vaccines to developing nations. Rather, it might be a case of having a joined-up plan, perhaps led by those who will pay for it, like the G7 or the G20?

From a business perspective, sometimes it's worth helping your suppliers with a problem so as to avoid disruption to your own organisation. I think this is one of those times.

[Lootman]

Don't need the numbers; as evidence, I present to you the presence of the Delta variant in the UK.

Delta is in the UK

So you agree that it came in with a traveller and that UK border control failed to keep it out, despite testing and red lists?

Either we get the world population vaccinated, or we continue to be disrupted by this virus, either directly in the UK, or indirectly, as economies we trade with struggle to cope with it.

I don't think it's a case of either giving boosters in the UK or sending vaccines to developing nations. Rather, it might be a case of having a joined-up plan, perhaps led by those who will pay for it, like the G7 or the G20?

From a business perspective, sometimes it's worth helping your suppliers with a problem so as to avoid disruption to your own organisation. I think this is one of those times.

Sure, the ideal solution would be to vaccinate the entire world and eradicate Covid. For that matter I'd like world peace and an end to famine as well.

But the issue here is much narrower. Should we give a booster jab to UK pensioners? Or should we send those 15 million or so doses to somewhere in the third world, in the hope that it just happens to prevent the next Delta from mutating? Those 15 million doses are a drop in the ocean and there is no way to know where to direct it.

We cannot control what foreigners do in other lands. We can make our own population more immune from what they do, however.

[XFool]

Sure, the ideal solution would be to vaccinate the entire world and eradicate Covid. For that matter I'd like world peace and an end to famine as well.

But the issue here is much narrower. Should we give a booster jab to UK pensioners? Or should we send those 15 million or so doses to somewhere in the third world, in the hope that it just happens to prevent the next Delta from mutating?

The issue here is that that isn't the issue here. It is a pseudo-issue.

We cannot control what foreigners do in other lands. We can make our own population more immune from what they do, however.

Sure, which we are doing. Then again, we can only make our own population immune from what we already know of and know how to counter, not necessarily effectively against possible variants we know nothing about.