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Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Lootman
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444483

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2021, 4:43 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:We cannot control what foreigners do in other lands. We can make our own population more immune from what they do, however.

Sure, which we are doing. Then again, we can only make our own population immune from what we already know of and know how to counter, not necessarily effectively against possible variants we know nothing about.

Yes we are doing that, by giving out booster doses to people like you.

Obviously we cannot do anything about things we do not know anything about.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444489

Postby XFool » September 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:We cannot control what foreigners do in other lands. We can make our own population more immune from what they do, however.

Sure, which we are doing. Then again, we can only make our own population immune from what we already know of and know how to counter, not necessarily effectively against possible variants we know nothing about.

Yes we are doing that, by giving out booster doses to people like you.

Obviously we cannot do anything about things we do not know anything about.

Oh Gawd! :roll:


(Don't ask me to be "less opaque" or I might be just that...)

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444491

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2021, 4:59 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:Sure, which we are doing. Then again, we can only make our own population immune from what we already know of and know how to counter, not necessarily effectively against possible variants we know nothing about.

Yes we are doing that, by giving out booster doses to people like you.

Obviously we cannot do anything about things we do not know anything about.

Oh Gawd! :roll:

You realise that is neither a mature nor informative reply, right?

If you cannot refute me then just admit it rather than play verbal games.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444493

Postby XFool » September 22nd, 2021, 5:01 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:Yes we are doing that, by giving out booster doses to people like you.

Obviously we cannot do anything about things we do not know anything about.

Oh Gawd! :roll:

You realise that is neither a mature nor informative reply, right?

If you cannot refute me then just admit it rather than play verbal games.

You just cannot be told...

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444496

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2021, 5:07 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:Oh Gawd! :roll:

You realise that is neither a mature nor informative reply, right?

If you cannot refute me then just admit it rather than play verbal games.

You just cannot be told...

Oh I see, so I should just roll over, tell you that you are correct and marvel at how smart you are?

When you cannot even refute a single point I have made?

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444499

Postby XFool » September 22nd, 2021, 5:11 pm

You cannot tell someone anything, however simple, if they really, really don't want to know.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444500

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2021, 5:13 pm

XFool wrote:You cannot tell someone anything, however simple, if they really, really don't want to know.

Finally you said something I agree with.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444517

Postby redsturgeon » September 22nd, 2021, 5:35 pm

Moderator Message:
FAO Lootman and Xfool. I am sure you two must be getting as bored as everyone else with this petty arguing. I will delete any other posts that continue your personal spat. Please just PM each other if you wish to continue.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444529

Postby XFool » September 22nd, 2021, 6:12 pm

Covid: Immune therapy from llamas shows promise

BBC News

A Covid therapy derived from a llama named Fifi has shown "significant potential" in early trials.

"It is a treatment made of "nanobodies", small, simpler versions of antibodies, which llamas and camels produce naturally in response to infection."

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444584

Postby XFool » September 22nd, 2021, 11:04 pm

Some more good stuff going on. Vaccine swaps:

UK to send 1m Pfizer vaccine doses to South Korea in swap deal

The Guardian

Doses will help South Korea boost full vaccination rates, and UK will get same number back later in year

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444691

Postby 88V8 » September 23rd, 2021, 12:35 pm

XFool wrote:Covid: Immune therapy from llamas shows promise

Let's hope it doesn't catch TB. Or DEFRA imagine that it's caught TB.

Professor Sir John Bell being positive about the coming winter on Times Radio this morning (no mention of llamas). https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/show/20210923-4306/2021-09-23 at 2:07.

V8

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444854

Postby onthemove » September 23rd, 2021, 9:42 pm

XFool wrote: Then again, we can only make our own population immune from what we already know of and know how to counter, not necessarily effectively against possible variants we know nothing about.



Not sure how to link to the specific section, but it's at 13:48 (23/9/2021) ... https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... navigation

"It comes after Prof Dame Sarah Gilbert told a Royal Society of Medicine webinar that viruses tend to become weaker as they spread around.

She said:

We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2.

We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.

Seasonal coronaviruses cause colds, and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

Asked about the comments on Times Radio, Bell said:

If you look at the trajectory we’re on, we’re a lot better off than we were six months ago. So the pressure on the NHS is largely abated. If you look at the deaths from Covid, they tend to be very elderly people, and it’s not entirely clear it was Covid that caused all those deaths. So I think we’re over the worst of it now.

And I think what will happen is, there will be quite a lot of background exposure to Delta [variant], we can see the case numbers are quite high, that particularly in people who’ve had two vaccines if they get a bit of breakthrough symptomatology, or not even symptomatology – if they just are asymptomatically infected, that will add to our immunity substantially"



It looks like the consensus, at least in the UK, is starting to drift towards having the virus circulating as being of benefit... adding to our immunity, and likely helping the virus to evolve to become less virulent.

I'm not going to bother digging out the article again, but on sciencedaily there was an article a while back on some research that suggested actually catching covid gives broader protection than the vaccine... makes quite some sense because the vaccines only target one specific part of the virus, whereas catching the virus let's your immune system see the whole thing, so the antibodies generated are broader and more likely to be effective even against mutations.

So as long as the original two doses are doing their job at protecting against hospitalisation and death in the UK, which they largely appear to be doing - as the quote above says, it's not even clear if the few deaths recorded as covid related are even caused by covid now, as they tend to be occurring in the elderly and those with other things that could have bene the cause - then we might as well let other countries have the extra vaccines.

Not so much to reduce the risk of new variants, rather just because it's the more equitable thing to do.

I mean, even a booster dose isn't going to be 100% effective... you're only going to add a few % onto the effectiveness of already very effective vaccines, and that's mostly going to be against symptomatic disease... so where would you stop? Another booster after that? And another?

At what point does it become unacceptably selfish to keep giving more and more jabs to ourselves when others around the world haven't even had a single one yet?

[Edit: Would just add - although I've quoted XFool I'm not sure which 'side' of the ongoing debate my comment is supportive of or countering ... I just offer it as some additional information that seems relevant to the points being discussed]

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444856

Postby Lootman » September 23rd, 2021, 9:50 pm

onthemove wrote:At what point does it become unacceptably selfish to keep giving more and more jabs to ourselves when others around the world haven't even had a single one yet?

Funnily enough I agreed with everything in your post until that point. So yes, it was probably a genius move to allow Covid to spread this past summer as a natural and unofficial de facto vaccination programme. Whilst the nations that tried to keep it out through extreme measures have been shown to have failed.

But damned if I think that any UK government should be sending vaccines overseas even if a booster dose here only adds "a few percent" of extra protection. And personally I do not see the booster jabs as increasing protection but rather as prolonging it.

Think globally; act locally.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#444987

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 11:06 am

‘It’s awful. It’s exhausting’: Alaska rations care as it hits Covid nadir

The Guardian

The state has the highest rate of Covid in America, leaving hospitals overwhelmed and health workers burned out

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445015

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 12:46 pm

‘We haven’t finished the job’: JVT reflects on 18 months of Covid

The Guardian

Exclusive: Listen to the experts, says deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam, not the celebrities

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445052

Postby nicodemusboffin » September 24th, 2021, 2:23 pm

XFool wrote:‘We haven’t finished the job’: JVT reflects on 18 months of Covid

The Guardian

Exclusive: Listen to the experts, says deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam, not the celebrities


From the article, JVT says: "That’s my biggest concern, that people just relax and think this is [it], show’s over. Sorted. And I’m not sure where it is yet. It’d be lovely if it is, [if] it just continues to kind of glide along in a nice way. But I’m still cautious that there are more twists and turns with this virus".

But I'm struggling to see what the point is in NOT relaxing, at a time when things are 'glid[ing] along in a nice way'. As someone who's doubly vaccinated I'm either immune to the virus - so can happily relax whatever - or I'm not, in which case if I don't get it now I very probably will in the future. So why not get it now - or at least risk getting it - when the health system is not overloaded and when, by definition, I'm younger than I will be in the future, and therefore less at risk of being severely affected?

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445111

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 5:32 pm

nicodemusboffin wrote:
XFool wrote:‘We haven’t finished the job’: JVT reflects on 18 months of Covid

The Guardian

Exclusive: Listen to the experts, says deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam, not the celebrities

From the article, JVT says: "That’s my biggest concern, that people just relax and think this is [it], show’s over. Sorted. And I’m not sure where it is yet. It’d be lovely if it is, [if] it just continues to kind of glide along in a nice way. But I’m still cautious that there are more twists and turns with this virus".

But I'm struggling to see what the point is in NOT relaxing, at a time when things are 'glid[ing] along in a nice way'. As someone who's doubly vaccinated I'm either immune to the virus - so can happily relax whatever - or I'm not, in which case if I don't get it now I very probably will in the future. So why not get it now - or at least risk getting it - when the health system is not overloaded...

Covid: Cancer backlog could take a decade to clear

BBC News

It could take more than a decade to clear the cancer-treatment backlog in England, a report suggests.


Covid: Can England avoid 'lockdown lite' this winter?

BBC News

The government's approach in England is clear - it's going to try to rely almost entirely on the vaccines to protect the country from Covid this winter.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445126

Postby 9873210 » September 24th, 2021, 6:42 pm

nicodemusboffin wrote:But I'm struggling to see what the point is in NOT relaxing, at a time when things are 'glid[ing] along in a nice way'. As someone who's doubly vaccinated I'm either immune to the virus - so can happily relax whatever - or I'm not, in which case if I don't get it now I very probably will in the future. So why not get it now - or at least risk getting it - when the health system is not overloaded and when, by definition, I'm younger than I will be in the future, and therefore less at risk of being severely affected?


Treatment of Covid and management of symptoms continues to improve. It is likely that the case fatality rates (and misery for less severe cases) will be quite a bit lower in a year than they are now. As just one example you might want to wait until remdesivir is generally available.

This is related to the argument some people are making that Australia has gained nothing by isolating for over s year. What they have gained (compared to the UK) is facing May 2020 levels of Covid with June 2021 levels of vaccination. If that does not save tens of thousands of lives it would be pretty convincing evidence that the vaccines are not as effective as advertised, and that the introduction of vaccines cannot explain the course of the pandemic in the UK.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445148

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 8:42 pm

NHS ‘on the edge’ with some patients waiting 48 hours for a bed

The Guardian

Exclusive: record number of A&Es having to turn away ambulances daily amid unprecedented demand

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#445164

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 11:01 pm

‘A bit of a mystery’: why England Covid cases are going down despite easing of restrictions

The Guardian

Analysis: Experts say it is first time since start of pandemic that sustained decline is recorded out of lockdown


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