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Murray International.

Closed-end funds and OEICs
ap8889
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Murray International.

#139629

Postby ap8889 » May 17th, 2018, 4:39 pm

I am considering ditching this IT. It has been lagging its benchmark of late. Any thoughts?

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Re: Murray International.

#139637

Postby Welshmidget » May 17th, 2018, 5:14 pm

Doesn’t it depend on why you bought it? It’s a relatively conservative income oriented global flex cap. With a dividend of 4%+, if you are using it for income, I suggest you stick with it - the growth will come back at some stage. It is, after all, gold rated by morningstar. If you are looking for fast growth, you won’t often get it with MYI. If you’re invested for the long term, stick with it. But it really depends why you got it originally.

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Re: Murray International.

#139641

Postby BrummieDave » May 17th, 2018, 5:30 pm

And a nice divi payment due tomorrow.

So whilst it has performed poorly in share price terms recently, particularly this calendar year, it's still right up there as a global IT for income seekers.

What would you replace it with AP?

ap8889
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Re: Murray International.

#139705

Postby ap8889 » May 17th, 2018, 9:33 pm

I am strongly tempted to split the holding: most going to Vanguard Emerging markets as I want more EM exposure and a small sum on Hurricane Energy as I have far too much sensible stuff and need a few "lottery ticket" gambles to keep me interested. Basically I am "risk on" at present and need to get rid of some plodding middle of the road stuff.

I can't understand why MYI is currently at a premium, as it doesn't really deserve it based on the last year or two as far as I can see. I think selling at todays premium might be sensible.

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Re: Murray International.

#139719

Postby Dod101 » May 17th, 2018, 10:02 pm

I have been in and out of Murray International for some years and bought into it again on September at £8.219. I am not unhappy that it is now £11.90 or so with a dividend of over 4%.Bruce Stout is a deep thinking excellent manager and ITs are not for the get rich quick lot. I am very happy with it but if you want more excitement why not buy Scottish Mortgage? I hold both

Dod

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Re: Murray International.

#139731

Postby monabri » May 17th, 2018, 11:37 pm

Dod101 wrote:I have been in and out of Murray International for some years and bought into it again on September at £8.219.

Dod


Did you mean SEP 2015, Dod?

Dod101
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Re: Murray International.

#139752

Postby Dod101 » May 18th, 2018, 8:16 am

Yes September 2015. I think I posted at the time because someone thought I was being over optimistic. It took a while but by December 2016 it was at £11.88 and has hovered around that level ever since. No share goes up for ever and I will be keeping Murray Int.

Dod

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Re: Murray International.

#139772

Postby richfool » May 18th, 2018, 9:16 am

ap8889 wrote:I am strongly tempted to split the holding: most going to Vanguard Emerging markets as I want more EM exposure and a small sum on Hurricane Energy as I have far too much sensible stuff and need a few "lottery ticket" gambles to keep me interested. Basically I am "risk on" at present and need to get rid of some plodding middle of the road stuff.

ap8889, ironically MYI tends to have a greater exposure to EM and Asia Pacific, than its peers (noting your wish to increase EM exposure). It also holds some fixed interest.

Noted that the capital growth of MYI has been lacklustre, or at least less than its peers, more recently, however, I remain overweight. I hold MYI for its dividend yield and its more defensive nature. I would anticipate that in the event of a market correction it would suffer less than many of its peers. The fact it is trading at a premium tends to suggest it is in demand.

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Re: Murray International.

#139805

Postby bluedonkey » May 18th, 2018, 12:04 pm

ap8889 wrote:I am strongly tempted to split the holding: most going to Vanguard Emerging markets as I want more EM exposure and a small sum on Hurricane Energy as I have far too much sensible stuff and need a few "lottery ticket" gambles to keep me interested. Basically I am "risk on" at present and need to get rid of some plodding middle of the road stuff.

I can't understand why MYI is currently at a premium, as it doesn't really deserve it based on the last year or two as far as I can see. I think selling at todays premium might be sensible.

If you're looking for growth oriented, then Scottish Mortgage fits the bill (as suggested by Dod). Personally I would go for Fundsmith as an alternative, especially as SM is at a 4.3% premium at present. Fundsmith is an OEIC so no premium or discount.

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Re: Murray International.

#139806

Postby BrummieDave » May 18th, 2018, 12:04 pm

I hold two Global ITs as part of my income orientated portfolio, selected to complement each other.

MYI as Richfool says for its exposure to less developed markets, and Securities Trust of Scotland (STS) for its focus on global blue chips. That way I hope to have all global bases covered. I then have smaller investments in additional ITs for selected markets in Far East, Europe, North America etc.

I rarely see comment about STS on this forum, so whilst the OP was about MYI, has anyone any views on STS within the same context as the OP?

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Re: Murray International.

#139819

Postby bluedonkey » May 18th, 2018, 12:50 pm

BrummieDave wrote:I hold two Global ITs as part of my income orientated portfolio, selected to complement each other.

MYI as Richfool says for its exposure to less developed markets, and Securities Trust of Scotland (STS) for its focus on global blue chips. That way I hope to have all global bases covered. I then have smaller investments in additional ITs for selected markets in Far East, Europe, North America etc.

I rarely see comment about STS on this forum, so whilst the OP was about MYI, has anyone any views on STS within the same context as the OP?

Interesting, I hadn't come across STS before. From a quick look on the AIC website, the comparisons are:

STS at a discount of 7.5% compared to premium for MYI of 2.4%. That's a big difference of c.10%
MYI's portfolio has a higher % of developed countries compared to STS
Similar 5 year dividend growth rate
Starting yield for STS is 3.5% compared to 4.4% for MYI
STS is a much smaller trust, perhaps too small to be profitable for Martin Currie

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Re: Murray International.

#139821

Postby spiderbill » May 18th, 2018, 1:21 pm

As a relative novice in ITs I monitor about 40 of them in a spare copy of HYPTUS to try to get a feel for them. I bought some HFEL in Sept, some MYI in Nov, and some FRCL in March this year. Of all the ones I monitor most have recovered from the general market correction at the start of this year but MYI seem to have stalled and I'm currently 9% down on them.

Obviously it's early days and this is a learning experience so I need to research which of the main MYI holdings are doing poorly to get a better understanding. Maybe it was just bad timing on my part, but I'd like to get a feel for why others seem to recovering better than they are.

(wistfully) Now if only I'd bought Merchants Trust, which was being criticised at the time I was first looking but it now steaming ahead. (very different geo market of course)

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Re: Murray International.

#139823

Postby Dod101 » May 18th, 2018, 1:30 pm

bluedonkey wrote:If you're looking for growth oriented, then Scottish Mortgage fits the bill (as suggested by Dod). Personally I would go for Fundsmith as an alternative, especially as SM is at a 4.3% premium at present. Fundsmith is an OEIC so no premium or discount.


I actually said if he is looking for some excitement. We cannot really compare Scottish Mortgage with Fundsmith because apart from the one being closed ended and the other not, Scottish Mortgage is undoubtedly much higher risk and likely to prove much more volatile than Fundsmith which is invested in high quality mature and successful companies.

Securities Trust of Scotland had a poor record for a long time. maybe it is better now but I have not looked at it for some time.

Dod

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Re: Murray International.

#139824

Postby BrummieDave » May 18th, 2018, 1:31 pm

bluedonkey wrote:MYI's portfolio has a higher % of developed countries compared to STS


Not sure I agree with that tbh. For example, STS's two largest countries are US and UK totaling 57%, whereas MYI's are also US and UK but only at 22%.

Did you mean to type it the other way round perhaps?

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Re: Murray International.

#139844

Postby bluedonkey » May 18th, 2018, 2:47 pm

BrummieDave wrote:
bluedonkey wrote:MYI's portfolio has a higher % of developed countries compared to STS


Not sure I agree with that tbh. For example, STS's two largest countries are US and UK totaling 57%, whereas MYI's are also US and UK but only at 22%.

Did you mean to type it the other way round perhaps?

Ah yes, you are correct. Unfortunately I can't edit the post to correct it.

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Re: Murray International.

#139846

Postby BrummieDave » May 18th, 2018, 3:05 pm

bluedonkey wrote:From a quick look on the AIC website, the comparisons are:

STS at a discount of 7.5% compared to premium for MYI of 2.4%. That's a big difference of c.10%
STS's portfolio has a higher % of developed countries compared to MYI (edited by BrummieDave to correct the statement)
Similar 5 year dividend growth rate
Starting yield for STS is 3.5% compared to 4.4% for MYI
STS is a much smaller trust, perhaps too small to be profitable for Martin Currie


Having performed a comparison, did you draw any conclusion Bluedonkey either about the merits of either IT in isolation, or the merits of holding both?

bluedonkey
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Re: Murray International.

#139850

Postby bluedonkey » May 18th, 2018, 3:42 pm

BrummieDave wrote:
bluedonkey wrote:From a quick look on the AIC website, the comparisons are:

STS at a discount of 7.5% compared to premium for MYI of 2.4%. That's a big difference of c.10%
STS's portfolio has a higher % of developed countries compared to MYI (edited by BrummieDave to correct the statement)
Similar 5 year dividend growth rate
Starting yield for STS is 3.5% compared to 4.4% for MYI
STS is a much smaller trust, perhaps too small to be profitable for Martin Currie


Having performed a comparison, did you draw any conclusion Bluedonkey either about the merits of either IT in isolation, or the merits of holding both?

I wouldn't hold both, I think either could fill the same specific objective in a portfolio. I am very reluctant to buy an IT at a premium, though I might be able to live with MYI's 2.4% premium. However, given the alternative of STS being available at a discount, I would choose that in preference to MYI.
A caveat is that I have not considered these two against any other ITs that may be similar. Perhaps a Vanguard Global ETF may do just as well.


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